Screw You Manish Mehta!

MitchKumstein · Mar 20, 2015

ctpatsfan77 said:
The JEST don't have a 5 this year.

Also, the penalty here should be more severe than the Bears case, since (A) there were multiple occasions, and (B) at least one of them involved an owner previously warned about tampering.

Good points. And one could also argue that the penalty should be more severe given that the jets tampered with a player on a division rival

OhExaulted1 · Mar 20, 2015

yopats said:
I would be absolutely shocked if we got a first.. I think it will fall in line with past punishments .. so a swap and Jet's lose a pick.

This is the most reasonable conclusion that one who's not allied with one side or the other can deduce. Past documented transgressions had teams swapping mid-round picks. If anyone thinks we're going to get #6 or a first next year, step away from the bong.

In the 2008 Lance Briggs case the 49ers and Bears swapped 3rd Rders (#70 for #75). In the 2010 Gunther Cunnigham flap the Lions and Cheifs swapped 5th Rders (#140 for #154). Nothing will come of the recent "legal" tampering suspision, but we have Woody dead to rights for his Dec. comments.

I'm still maintaining that since the Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks and our 7th is higher than theirs I think you could reasonably conclude a swap of our 4ths this year (#104 for #131) which includes comp projections. This is simply based on previous decisions and trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective.

I'm sure some will try to justify why it should be way harsher than that, but mostly that will be coming through jaded lenses. I agree with you yopats. I would be shocked. Certainly pleased, but yes, shocked.

oldrover · Mar 20, 2015

Manish Mehta is not the Jet's version of Ron Borges.

Mehta actually wants the Jets to win.

And Mehta likes Jets fans... he doesn't try to piss them off.

patfanken · Mar 20, 2015

A point that people keep on forgetting is that Johnson already had a written warning from the league to cease doing exactly what he did. All the other cases mentioned, along with there punishments, were one time events. The Jets are SERIAL offenders, and thus the punishment should be THAT much harsher.

Don't forget that one of the reasons given for the harsh punishment surrounding "cameraplacementgate" was that the Pats had been warned and kept on doing it. How is this different?

Rob, I wrote 2 comments to that story. Surprisingly they didn't edit them out

After having to deal with hourly “deflategate” stories for weeks at a time, it’s about time PFT took some time to discuss some REAL cheating.

This isn’t a case of “whining” like Mehta characterizes. If tampering IS truly a rule that the league intends to enforce, then this is a textbook example. Here’s why.

1. Johnson’s supposed “lip slip” wasn’t just a casual misstatement, it was a critical first shot. It also was almost word for word for what you are NOT supposed to do, as cited by the Tampering rule

2. This wasn’t Johnson’s first supposed “lip slip”. He had already been given a written warning within in the last year, to cease making tampering statements about other people’s players under contract.

3. At a time where the Pats were supposed to have EXCLUSIVE negotiating rights, “somehow” the Jets managed to have worked out a complex 5 year deal, front loaded in such a way, it made it impossible for the Pats to match. It was like the Jets knew exactly what the Pats offer was and how they wanted to structure the deal

You can’t tell me that the Jets managed to put this together in just a few hours after the real FA period began. No its a classic case of tampering, and if the league doesn’t come down hard on a REPEAT OFFENDER, then they should just do away with the rule entirely.

The hypocrisy of pillaring the Pats over a pound of air pressure for weeks on end, yet ignoring actual rule breaking over and over again, is sad. it would be just ANOTHER example of Roger Goodell’s ineptness, and the uneven enforcement of the rules.

If this was a first time offense, the punishment should be the Jets losing a low round pick, or swapping positions with the Pats on a mid round pick, like its been done in the past HOWEVER the Jets are multiple offenders, and the minimum punishment should be swapping 2nd round picks.

You can’t allow your good buddy Mehta to minimize this. They want’s to hang the Pats for supposedly breaking an obscure rule that could easily been explained by HS physics…..and they did it for weeks at a time and are spending millions of dollars to “investigate” what amounts to a Colt’s instigated bag job.

The Jets cheated, plain and simple, and after years of unfairly labeling the Pats with that moniker, the organization and their fans can’t deal with that FACT
73 -17

Then I remembered to add this:

One other quick point I forgot to mention. It has been widely reported that the Pats had dropped out of the “bidding” on Monday when it became clear that they couldn’t match the money and structure the Jets were offering.

But here’s the thing. How could their even be “bidding” on Monday, since it was a full day before Revis was allowed to field offers from other teams.

What a joke. Revis had a full blown offer on the table well before ANY team was allowed to even make an offer. Be honest Mike, it this were the Pats instead of the Jets, you wouldn’t be publishing one post every couple of weeks

BTW- I have to credit you for even doing THAT much. According to ESPN, tampering is even worth THAT much space. Outside of you and Tom Curran, no one wants this story to come out.
43 -3

And after reading this thread, I'm going back to add your comment on Mehta's advanced knowledge of the contract's details, well before the FA period started., Good job

Rob0729 · Mar 20, 2015

oldrover said:
Manish Mehta is not the Jet's version of Ron Borges.

Mehta actually wants the Jets to win.

And Mehta likes Jets fans... he doesn't try to piss them off.

Jets fans hate Mehta. He was constantly slamming both the Tannebaum and Idzik regimes and pissing off Jets fans. They hate him as much as Pats fans hate Borges. The only difference is that Mehta was right with a lot of his criticism of the Jets.

Brewskies · Mar 20, 2015

I am tired of the delay on both charges. The Jets tampering should have been resolved within 24 hours after Johnson spoke. The second tampering charge should have been resolved within a week after Revis was signed. The Deflategate should have been resolved within 3 weeks of that game.

Galeb · Mar 20, 2015

OhExaulted1 said:
This is the most reasonable conclusion that one who's not allied with one side or the other can deduce. Past documented transgressions had teams swapping mid-round picks. If anyone thinks we're going to get #6 or a first next year, step away from the bong.

In the 2008 Lance Briggs case the 49ers and Bears swapped 3rd Rders (#70 for #75). In the 2010 Gunther Cunnigham flap the Lions and Cheifs swapped 5th Rders (#140 for #154). Nothing will come of the recent "legal" tampering suspision, but we have Woody dead to rights for his Dec. comments.

I'm still maintaining that since the Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks and our 7th is higher than theirs I think you could reasonably conclude a swap of our 4ths this year (#104 for #131) which includes comp projections. This is simply based on previous decisions and trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective.

I'm sure some will try to justify why it should be way harsher than that, but mostly that will be coming through jaded lenses. I agree with you yopats. I would be shocked. Certainly pleased, but yes, shocked.

If the Jets are found guilty of tampering a second time with Revis just before the Pats release him, the punishment should be a lot more severe than the Briggs case. Here's why

Woody Johnson was warned earlier in the same year before he publicly tampered with Revis in January.
The Jets were already being investigated for Woodie's January comments when they tampered with the same player again.
Briggs was good, but Revis is a once-in-a-generation talent.
The Jets actually signed that once-in-a-lifetime talent. Briggs was not.

Clearly the Jet's violations are much more serious as were the damages to the Patriots. The keyword is if. Even in the unlikely event of the Jets being punished harshly, I sincerely doubt the Patriots will receive fair compensation. IMO, a swap of 2nd rounders would be fair in 2015. If the punishment comes in 2016, it should be a swap of 1sts.

The only way I can see the Pats getting compensated fairly is if Kraft pushes hard.

The Gr8est · Mar 20, 2015

OhExaulted1 said:
This is the most reasonable conclusion that one who's not allied with one side or the other can deduce. Past documented transgressions had teams swapping mid-round picks. If anyone thinks we're going to get #6 or a first next year, step away from the bong.

In the 2008 Lance Briggs case the 49ers and Bears swapped 3rd Rders (#70 for #75). In the 2010 Gunther Cunnigham flap the Lions and Cheifs swapped 5th Rders (#140 for #154). Nothing will come of the recent "legal" tampering suspision, but we have Woody dead to rights for his Dec. comments.

I'm still maintaining that since the Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks and our 7th is higher than theirs I think you could reasonably conclude a swap of our 4ths this year (#104 for #131) which includes comp projections. This is simply based on previous decisions and trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective.

I'm sure some will try to justify why it should be way harsher than that, but mostly that will be coming through jaded lenses. I agree with you yopats. I would be shocked. Certainly pleased, but yes, shocked.

In the Pats' instance the tampered player is a future HOF player in the same division, the player was tampered with by name, and the tampering player was signed by the tampering team.

Those circumstances are not present in your cited cases and significantly escalate the severity of the offense, and the punishment should be unprecedented as well.

Additionally, losing Revis caused the Pats to have to revamp their defensive philosophy resulting in them letting Browner go as well, and leaving them short two starting corners.

OhExaulted1 · Mar 20, 2015

Galeb said:
If the Jets are found guilty of tampering a second time with Revis just before the Pats release him, the punishment should be a lot more severe than the Briggs case. Here's why

Woody Johnson was warned earlier in the same year before he publicly tampered with Revis in January.

The Jets were already being investigated for Woodie's January comments when they tampered with the same player again.

Briggs was good, but Revis is a once-in-a-generation talent.

The Jets actually signed that once-in-a-lifetime talent. Briggs was not.

Clearly the Jet's violations are much more serious as were the damages to the Patriots. The keyword is if. Even in the unlikely event of the Jets being punished harshly, I sincerely doubt the Patriots will receive fair compensation. IMO, a swap of 2nd rounders would be fair in 2015. If the punishment comes in 2016, it should be a swap of 1sts.

The only way I can see the Pats getting compensated fairly is if Kraft pushes hard.

While I agree in principle with what you post, that's the jaded lenses I generally wear reading you're comments. If it were a swap of 4ths it would constitute the stiffest tampering penalty to date if you go by a trade value chart http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=NE. The punishment should be a forgone conclusion IMO, the only real question is how harshly. I'm trying to keep my expectations measured, although I'd be psyched at a swap of 2nds.

I actually hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't bother me in the least.

SHOWTIME15 · Mar 20, 2015

All of the league's findings will come out during the final four. You guys watch.

Ivan · Mar 20, 2015

Has there ever been a tampering punishment delayed until the next season? This case is the worst tampering case in league history, and it didn't happen once it happened repeatedly until they actually signed the player. If this doesn't call for this years first then no tamper will ever rise to that level and teams should be making their intentions clear for Luck and Wilson. Why not, the pick is worth it.

woolster22 · Mar 20, 2015

sieglo said:
It's possible he heard the numbers from Revis' camp.

I'm sure the Pats offered that kind of high end funny money...lol

RobertWeathers · Mar 20, 2015

sieglo said:
It's possible he heard the numbers from Revis' camp.

Exactly. Because of that...
1) The Pats knew that the NYJ had the inside track and decided if they were going to guarantee $39m, then there was no reason to continue negotiating.
2) Revis did not act on good faith and used that information to gain additional leverage on the Patriots.
3) Agents cannot negotiate contracts while their client is under contract with another team which is another angle on the anti-tampering allegation levied on the Jets by the Pats.

I'm not annoyed that the Pats lost Revis. I'm annoyed by the manner in which they lost him.

woolster22 · Mar 20, 2015

OhExaulted1 said:
This is the most reasonable conclusion that one who's not allied with one side or the other can deduce. Past documented transgressions had teams swapping mid-round picks. If anyone thinks we're going to get #6 or a first next year, step away from the bong.

In the 2008 Lance Briggs case the 49ers and Bears swapped 3rd Rders (#70 for #75). In the 2010 Gunther Cunnigham flap the Lions and Cheifs swapped 5th Rders (#140 for #154). Nothing will come of the recent "legal" tampering suspision, but we have Woody dead to rights for his Dec. comments.

I'm still maintaining that since the Jets have no 5th or 6th Rd picks and our 7th is higher than theirs I think you could reasonably conclude a swap of our 4ths this year (#104 for #131) which includes comp projections. This is simply based on previous decisions and trying to look at it from an unbiased perspective.

I'm sure some will try to justify why it should be way harsher than that, but mostly that will be coming through jaded lenses. I agree with you yopats. I would be shocked. Certainly pleased, but yes, shocked.

Swap of third minimum. Revis is twice the player Briggs was, the Jets actually signed him, and woody had already been warned that league year. Swap seconds, forfeit third.

Galeb · Mar 20, 2015

OhExaulted1 said:
While I agree in principle with what you post, that's the jaded lenses I generally wear reading you're comments. If it were a swap of 4ths it would constitute the stiffest tampering penalty to date if you go by a trade value chart http://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=NE. The punishment should be a forgone conclusion IMO, the only real question is how harshly. I'm trying to keep my expectations measured, although I'd be psyched at a swap of 2nds.

I actually hope I'm wrong, it wouldn't bother me in the least.

The worst, most blatant case of tampering ever on a first ballot HOF player would warrant the stiffest tampering penalty ever. Blatently doing something after the league specifically warns someone warrants a severe punishment both in principle and in precedent. Look what happened to Dallas and Washington after being warned about dumping salary during the uncapped season.

Galeb · Mar 20, 2015

Ivan said:
Has there ever been a tampering punishment delayed until the next season? This case is the worst tampering case in league history, and it didn't happen once it happened repeatedly until they actually signed the player. If this doesn't call for this years first then no tamper will ever rise to that level and teams should be making their intentions clear for Luck and Wilson. Why not, the pick is worth it.

If the Jets lose their first, it will be the pick taken, not the one given to the Pats.

Ivan · Mar 20, 2015

Galeb said:
If the Jets lose their first, it will be the pick taken, not the one given to the Pats.

Why?

The higher pick has always gone to the aggrieved team and the confiscated pick is always the lower one.

Rob0729 · Mar 20, 2015

Galeb said:
If the Jets lose their first, it will be the pick taken, not the one given to the Pats.

Not based on previous punishments. Past punishments have been two picks. The higher pick is swapped with the victim team for a lower pick and the lower pick is just forfeited.

Galeb · Mar 20, 2015

Ivan said:
Why?

The higher pick has always gone to the aggrieved team and the confiscated pick is always the lower one.

Rob0729 said:
Not based on previous punishments. Past punishments have been two picks. The higher pick is swapped with the victim team for a lower pick and the lower pick is just forfeited.

Because neither the league nor the media could stomach the Pats receiving the #6 pick after winning the superbowl.

RobertWeathers · Mar 20, 2015

TommyBrady12 said:
All of the league's findings will come out during the final four. You guys watch.

Maybe. In digging up old tampering-related articles the league typically announced the distribution of picks around this time of year. With the draft being moved back a little, their announcements just might come around the timeframe that you suggest.

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