How about trading Mayo to LB-starved 49ers

BobDigital said:

Yes i would. I know how good Mayo can be. And he is more of a play facilitator than play maker (but that job is important too). This is not about how good Mayo is or is not. This is about what is in the best interest for the team plain and simple.

I would be willing to trade Hightower too if the price is right (though that would need to be more cause he is younger and cheaper but he won't be healthy till just about week 1). The only LB we have I really don't want to trade is Collins cause his skill set is so unique.

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What is a play facilitator? Someone that lines up other people to make plays and they don't? Are you saying Mayo doesn't make plays?

Deciding whether or not to trade a player has everything to do with how good they are and the value they represent to the player's current team and outside the organization.

No question Collins is special but I'm confused. You have implied that you would apply that logic to Hightower and Mayo but not Collins? What if someone offered 2 #1s and a good LB for Collins. Would you not make that trade?

I believe that everyone is expendable and can be replaced. The question is what the ROI is on moving the player and the downside.

BobDigital said:

The way I see it is we have more talent than is needed at LB and if we can somehow transfer that to a position of need then why wouldn't we?

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The team has proven quality in Collins, Hightower and Sherod. Thats it. There is no depth whatsoever right now.

BobDigital said:

You mention the trio of Mayo/Collins/Hightower but it is not going to be on the field often.

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We are not talking about Brandon Spikes here. Mayo is a 3 down player. What if Hightower can't make it back full-strength by Week 1 (which is very possible). What if Collins gets hurt? Who plays ILB/MLB? What about Wilfork leaving? Besides thaose two, who has the experience to call the d-line alignments?

Mayo is certainly replaceable (as evident w/ 2013 and 2014) but with Mayo-when healthy the base D is better and the overall D and team are better.

DP937 said:

As much as the Pats play in nickle Defense, adding a good pass rusher via draft or another Collins Via draft is why I believe Mayo is expendable. Like I said earlier If Kiko Alonso can get traded coming back from major injury, Mayo can to. And there is a big need in San Fran.

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This is an extremely short sited view. EXTREMELY.

1. It's truth he's gotten hurt the last 2 years, but what about the previous half decade when he was NEVER hurt.

2. Despite the whining and carping of the crowd who look for "big plays", Mayo has been an EXTREMELY good and versatile LB for the Pats. He's just a tick below the Willis and Keackley level.

3. Trading off a quality asset like Mayo, leaves you with NO depth. You are assuming that Collins and Hightower will never get hurt.

4. Having Mayo on the field will allow the Pats to use Hightower and Collins much more creatively and aggressively. If this team has to improve up front, to compensate for back end losses, how we get to use Hightower and Collins will be key.

5. What's available with a mid 2nd round pick is a crap shoot, it would be very unlikely to replace the talent we already have with Mayo.

6. Then add the fact that the Niners would be crazy to give up a 2nd round pick for Mayo. Think about it. Right now its unlikely he can even pass a physical at this point. Not only that, the Jets only had to give up a 5th round pick for an elite WR

Sorry, son. it's just a bad idea.

DP937 said:

As much as the Pats play in nickle Defense, adding a good pass rusher via draft or another Collins Via draft is why I believe Mayo is expendable. Like I said earlier If Kiko Alonso can get traded coming back from major injury, Mayo can to. And there is a big need in San Fran.

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yes.....there is a need in SF for an LB.....which is why they're not going to trade for one that is not yet on the field

MassPats38 said:

I believe any trade can happen, if it makes sense.

Mayo was a high first-round pick, and has performed at that level. He has had two unfortunate injuries the past two years (torn pec, torn patellar tendon), neither of which necessarily represent ongoing injury concerns. A second round draft pick for a first round pick who has performed at a high level smacks of unloading the player. You are essentially rolling the dice that pick amounts to something in the NFL, and they do not always succeed. Mayo also is a leader and character guy, which is difficult to read in a draft pick.

If Niners are truly desperate, I would dream bigger. Start with the 1st round pick, and go from there, because it is not a high pick (mid-round). While Mayo's contract should be reviewed and restructured given the past two seasons, it is not so onerous that he needs to be unloaded.

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There is absolutely no way to get a 1st round pick for Jerod Mayo right now.

Mayo has almost no value as an aging LB coming off back to back major injuries. Most likely is that he comes back in a 2 down role at a dramatically reduced salary. He is also probably still quick enough to back up the two studs in nickel in a pinch.

Would rather restructure and keep him around. Offset the drop off in the secondary to some extent by maintaining an elite LB corps. While some argue his injuries make him expendable, they almost assure we won't receive fair return value in any sort of trade.

Mayo's first 5 years in the NFL were spent covering up the deficiencies of the LBs playing next to him. Before he got hurt last year and the year before you could see how good he was once his job switched from "cover everyone's ass" to "**** **** up."

Mayo has way more value to his current team that any other, right now.

Its fine to talk about running the 4-2-5 all day next year - but that isn't reality - teams will try to run on us, especially with no Wilfork - we'll need Mayo in there.

We have cap space. What's the point of freeing more up by getting rid of a very good player? We may have something special next year with Mayo Hightower and Collins I see no use in giving that up.

I'm really puzzled by the idea that Mayo is superfluous on this roster. When he was injured last year, didn't they have to go out and trade for 2 LBs, Ayers and Casillas -- both of whom are now gone?

Right now, the Patriots have one of the best 3-man linebacking corps in the NFL, with the caveat that 2 are recovering from major injuries and surgery. The backups are all marginal. Suppose you trade Mayo and Hightower isn't ready for game 1 (not unlikely based on initial rehab estimates). Your 4-3 starting linebackers are now Deontae Skinner, Jamie Collins and Darius Fleming, and LB is suddenly the weakest area on the team.

Mayo, Collins, Hightower, Ninko, jones, Easley, Chris jones, Sheard.

Our 3rd down amoeba D is gonna be awesome. They won't know where the rush is gonna come from.

Why?

He's probably gonna redo his deal. Getting rid of him is just another hole they will have to replace.

People clamoring for more pass rush should know Mayo is very important because him in the lineup frees Hightower or Collins to go rush the passer.

Anyone remember the beginning of the season when Hightower was a beast rushing the passer? Ya That's because Mayo in the lineup allowed him to do it.

Screw that, Mayo on the field is one of the best ways to maximize Hightower, Collins, and Sheard as pass rushers, getting rid of him for a pick is a horrible idea. The Patriots cannot replace Revis so the front seven is going to have to be highly effective at getting to the QB and Mayo will be critical to unleashing their pass rushers. Rather than get rid of Mayo I would rather see them restructure him and bring Spikes back and use him as a role player and further bolster their LB corps, which should be the best in football in 2015.

Mayo's trade value is not very high right now. If the Pats were to trade him, they would not get proper value. I could see trading Mayo for the right price, but the Pats are not going to get anywhere near it. I would rather keep him unless they know he isn't going to fully recover from his knee injury.

robertweathers said:

What is a play facilitator? Someone that lines up other people to make plays and they don't? Are you saying Mayo doesn't make plays?

Deciding whether or not to trade a player has everything to do with how good they are and the value they represent to the player's current team and outside the organization.

No question Collins is special but I'm confused. You have implied that you would apply that logic to Hightower and Mayo but not Collins? What if someone offered 2 #1s and a good LB for Collins. Would you not make that trade?

I believe that everyone is expendable and can be replaced. The question is what the ROI is on moving the player and the downside.



The team has proven quality in Collins, Hightower and Sherod. Thats it. There is no depth whatsoever right now.



We are not talking about Brandon Spikes here. Mayo is a 3 down player. What if Hightower can't make it back full-strength by Week 1 (which is very possible). What if Collins gets hurt? Who plays ILB/MLB? What about Wilfork leaving? Besides thaose two, who has the experience to call the d-line alignments?

Mayo is certainly replaceable (as evident w/ 2013 and 2014) but with Mayo-when healthy the base D is better and the overall D and team are better.

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Obviously I was not clear enough it what I said. Let me see if I can explain to you exactly where I am coming from

Play Facilitator to me means he lines other guys up to make plays while making few himself. Mayo to me is a consistent tackling machine and play caller/leader. I am not trying to under value those things as they are important. He more often than not frees up other guys to make plays rather than goes for it himself. I am not saying he never makes big plays cause he does but I don't see him as a LB that will pick off a pass and run it back for a TD.

Yes value matters when trading someone. No one is untradeable as long as you get equal or better value back. When I said I would not be inclined to trade Collins that is cause his skill set is harder to find. I am not saying I would not trade him. Also Hightower/Mayo are more interchangeable than Collins so that is why I would be more willing to move on from one as long as we have the other. I would make that trade you stated for Collins.

The Patriots usually use 2 LBs and have 3 as well as Nink/Shread which can fill in if need be. Is it as deep as it could be? Nope. Do you at least have 2 starters and other options to put back there if you trade Mayo? Yes.

I don't prioritize having depth over having quality starters. Right now assuming we trade Mayo we can field 3 starting LBs (though we will only need 2 mostly) in Hightower/Collins/Nink(Shread). If Hightower can not start week 1 we would have 2 which and probably go heavy nickel like parts last year till he gets back. Also I assuming if we lose Mayo we will get an Casillas like player via trade or FA.

Right now our CBs do not field high quality players. Our 2nd DT spot is questionable.

If trading Mayo can solve one of these I do it in a heart beat.

BobDigital said:

Obviously I was not clear enough it what I said. Let me see if I can explain to you exactly where I am coming from

Play Facilitator to me means he lines other guys up to make plays while making few himself. Mayo to me is a consistent tackling machine and play caller/leader. I am not trying to under value those things as they are important. He more often than not frees up other guys to make plays rather than goes for it himself. I am not saying he never makes big plays cause he does but I don't see him as a LB that will pick off a pass and run it back for a TD.

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Thanks for clarifying. I hear where you are coming from. I think we view Mayo in a different light as it pertains to what he is asked to do in this D and his value. I think the team (based on the mega-extension he signed and his performance) put a lot of value in his role in the defense. With Collins and HT, is that value and level of importance in this defense the same now as it was 2 years ago? Not sure.

BobDigital said:

Yes value matters when trading someone. No one is untradeable as long as you get equal or better value back. When I said I would not be inclined to trade Collins that is cause his skill set is harder to find. I am not saying I would not trade him. Also Hightower/Mayo are more interchangeable than Collins so that is why I would be more willing to move on from one as long as we have the other. I would make that trade you stated for Collins.

The Patriots usually use 2 LBs and have 3 as well as Nink/Shread which can fill in if need be. Is it as deep as it could be? Nope. Do you at least have 2 starters and other options to put back there if you trade Mayo? Yes.

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Agreed on your assessment on the LBs. As I've stated the team gains schematic flexibility in 4-3, 3-4 alignments with Mayo as that allows HT, Collins, Nink and potentially Sherod to do very interesting things. Seeing that they ran ~75% in sub packages last year, it does make you wonder how much would Mayo see the field. However, it also stands to reason that if Mayo was available, would they play less sub and more base D?

Because he can rush the passer and is stout vs the run, we think players such as HT and Collins gain schematic flexibility with Sherod but I don't assume that he and Nink have more positional flexibility in sub w/ or w/o Mayo here.

BobDigital said:

Right now our CBs do not field high quality players. Our 2nd DT spot is questionable. If trading Mayo can solve one of these I do it in a heart beat.

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Selver and Branch are very serviceable. Keep in mind Mayo helps the run D. With VW gone not a bad player to have handy.

All in all, any trade or roster scenario comes down to Mayo's health, his contract situation, the level of talent and depth they have at LB and what they can get in return. All unknowns at this point.

KontradictioN said:

How about approaching Mayo for a restructure instead of creating another need going into the draft?

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/Thread

No team is going to give up anything of any value to the Pats for Mayo because it's uncertain what his abilities, and hence his value, are post injury.

There's plenty of cap room for the Pats to just wait and see how Mayo responds to injury. I think it's much more likely Mayo gets restructured eventually. Hightower will be coming off an injury also, which means the Pats need to wait and see if Mayo can recover most of his form.

DP937 said:

I think this would be good way to free up cap space, and get a second round pick in return. There LB core is depleted. Mayo is still a good player but replaceable in New England. He still has some value as a pro bowl LB. Injury concerns but he could help them. What do you guys think?

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VrabelJr said:

Mayo's first 5 years in the NFL were spent covering up the deficiencies of the LBs playing next to him. Before he got hurt last year and the year before you could see how good he was once his job switched from "cover everyone's ass" to "**** **** up."

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Bengals game comes to mind when the defense in 2013 was playing great, Mayo dominated the game without making turnovers and the so called "big plays."

slash83 said:

If it's for Aldon Smith sure, otherwise ill pass.

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yep might take Eric Reid or Alex Boone (can't remember what his contract is like). Maybe a 2nd rounder but they won't go that route. Mayo has to pass a physical before anything happens anyway.