Edelman #4, Vollmer #9 in Mel Kiper's 2009 Re-Draft

robertweathers said:

You might be being a little too hard on Clay. He saved that defense last year once he moved to ILB.

Hes no Gronk but I'd take him in a heartbeat.

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No, I'm just pointing out how historically terrific Gronk is.

Rob0729 said:

Yeah, I would take Gronk over Clay Matthews. So the Pats did ultimately get better value than they gave up in this trade.

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Yeah, a trade that lands you the best TE of all time is, in the long run, a win.

robertweathers said:

Just so surreal. A VP of Personnel going after a draftnik. Talk about rabbit ears...

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Rabbit ears are one possibility. The impression I got from watching was that Kiper's bologne hurt someone Tobin knew personally. To Tobin, it was exacerbated by a dude with no NFL credentials who is obviously bitter at the team that left his hometown. Tobin got sick of it and, unwisely, retaliated in the media.

Like Tobin, I believe that the media is full of dooshes that talk ****. That said, I doubt I'd take public shots at them if I were part of a team.

Taking a player, that takes 5 years to develop as a competent receiver, at #4 seems a bit high to me.

And if that is really the 4th best player in the draft... it really sucked.

Galeb said:

Rabbit ears are one possibility. The impression I got from watching was that Kiper's bologne hurt someone Tobin knew personally. To Tobin, it was exacerbated by a dude with no NFL credentials who is obviously bitter at the team that left his hometown. Tobin got sick of it and, unwisely, retaliated in the media.

Like Tobin, I believe that the media is full of dooshes that talk ****. That said, I doubt I'd take public shots at them if I were part of a team.

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Especially when you are defending your draft pick which ended up being one of the worst draft picks in NFL history.

Ahhh, Tyrone McKenzie. I was certain he was going to be a huge pick for us. Great great great kid, just never worked out.

Rob0729 said:

Especially when you are defending your draft pick which ended up being one of the worst draft picks in NFL history.

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Defending picks is a whole other can of worms. Drafting is more of an art than a science.

Galeb said:

Rabbit ears are one possibility. The impression I got from watching was that Kiper's bologne hurt someone Tobin knew personally. To Tobin, it was exacerbated by a dude with no NFL credentials who is obviously bitter at the team that left his hometown. Tobin got sick of it and, unwisely, retaliated in the media.

Like Tobin, I believe that the media is full of dooshes that talk ****. That said, I doubt I'd take public shots at them if I were part of a team.

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Yea I never knew that there was suspicion that Kiper had some kind of Baltimore connection there.
20+ years later it's still funny....a draft dork getting under the skin of a GM. LOL.

He's mellowed a but Kiper would just get so spazoid about players and teams. Well, when you immerse yourself in your work like he did you can get a little emotional about it....Funny.

Galeb said:

Defending picks is a whole other can of worms. Drafting is more of an art than a science.

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If drafting is an art, many GMs are the Robert Mapplethorpe of the NFL because they are using fecal matter in their art.

Random fact: Patriots Draft Position over the last 5 years: 28, 31, 29, 29, 32


By the end of the 1st round picks have an average bust rate of 30%.

By the end of the 2nd round its over 50%.

That means if Belichick was "average" he'd have missed out on almost a third of his 1st round draft picks. As far as I am concerned, he's missed out on one, Laurence Maroney.

Looking back at a draft and pointing Internet GM fingers and picking all the successes and pointing out how the Patriots could have had him and ooh the Patriots could have had him is for children who haven't a clue how difficult it is for ANY team to guess whether any given college player has the intangibles to make it as an NFL player.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-team-can-beat-the-draft/

If teams showed any consistency in their ability to out-draft the market, it would show up in these deviations. But, as Chase Stuart of FootballPerspective.com has also found, there’s practically no correlation between a team’s picking performance from one draft to the next.

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http://changethis.com/manifesto/100.03.SuccessEquation/pdf/100.03.SuccessEquation.pdf

the smaller the variation in skill between competitors, the more opportunity for randomness to be a differentiating factor.

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robertweathers said:

You might be being a little too hard on Clay. He saved that defense last year once he moved to ILB.

Hes no Gronk but I'd take him in a heartbeat.

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Why?

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

Why?

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Because of his big arms and dreamy hair.

Danger Zone said:

By the end of the 1st round picks have an average bust rate of 30%.

By the end of the 2nd round its over 50%.

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I'd contend that that bust rate is low if we are talking about true impact players.

Danger Zone said:

That means if Belichick was "average" he'd have missed out on almost a third of his 1st round draft picks. As far as I am concerned, he's missed out on one, Laurence Maroney.

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I think Meriweather was a worse player, he just had the benefit of avoiding the injuries that derailed LoMo's career.

Back to bust rate, what most fans overlook is that even the 70% "hits" are mostly of the Ben Watson/Pat Chung variety. To keep finding elite players at the end of the first round is simply remarkable. Bill is a victim of his own success.

Can someone post what Kiper said about Edelman and Vollmer. And also the complete list.

And if you really want to be awesome, the entire article.

That being said #4 for Edelman is too high. I think he needed some time to develop.

Nehalem said:

Taking a player, that takes 5 years to develop as a competent receiver, at #4 seems a bit high to me.

And if that is really the 4th best player in the draft... it really sucked.

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You see that throw against Baltimore? He could take Ge-Noooo!'s job to boot.
/sarcasm...sort of...

I'd have to look at the list, but don't really care to. If a RT (albeit dominant one) is considered a top ten pick, I'd presume the draft was pretty terrible.

woolster22 said:

You see that throw against Baltimore? He could take Ge-Noooo!'s job to boot.
/sarcasm...sort of...

I'd have to look at the list, but don't really care to. If a RT (albeit dominant one) is considered a top ten pick, I'd presume the draft was pretty terrible.

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To be fair, if the Patriots hadn't gotten Solder, Vollmer would probably be playing LT right now.

woolster22 said:

You see that throw against Baltimore? He could take Ge-Noooo!'s job to boot.
/sarcasm...sort of...

I'd have to look at the list, but don't really care to. If a RT (albeit dominant one) is considered a top ten pick, I'd presume the draft was pretty terrible.

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Disagree on the RT part. Teams put great pass rushers on the offenses right side too.

Nehalem said:

Taking a player, that takes 5 years to develop as a competent receiver, at #4 seems a bit high to me.

And if that is really the 4th best player in the draft... it really sucked.

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Who knows, if a team took him and played him at qb. He could have been the next doug flutie.

http://es.pn/1FGtUyD

Kiper passes along one conversation he had with an NFL general manager who called Edelman, "the toughest cover in the NFL right now."

Galeb said:

If Kyper wasn't such a dink, a thread like this would have meaning.

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Yes, but even a dink like Kiper should be able to spot and rank productive players 5+ years after they are drafted somewhat respectably.

Btw, this has inspired me to re-draft the 1983 rookie pool and see what I come up with. Along with each draftee's on-the-field impact, players moving on to successful coaching careers and/or starting profitable side-businesses or investment ventures will be considered in pdangle's 1983 re-draft ranking formula.

At many of your requests, lifelong NFL pension returns will be factored into a future version...