Robert Kraft

letekro · Mar 19, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
I take it you don't read the news and are unaware of the income inequality wealth envy card being played 24/7 politically from the top down.

Not sure what that has to do with what I said, but yes, I am aware of the income inequality issue that has been taken up by all manner of idiots in recent times. My position is simple: people shouldn't be criticized for looking out for their own interests. Why Kraft gets an exemption for that while Revis and other players are raked over the coals I don't fully understand.

OhExaulted1 · Mar 19, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Would he splurge to win?

Probably not. The Steinbrenner model is bad for the game. i'm sure he'd be right at the cap every year, maybe over it in some.

And baseball needs a hard(er) cap.

Kraft isn't "cheap," but he's smart. He's also, by every account, a very decent person.

He wouldn't be able to "splurge". The big names would have wound up elsewhere. I dare say, without the salary cap none of the past 20 years of success would have been possible here. NO ONE wanted to come to NE prior to 1993. We were the football version of Siberia.

The Krafts and Bill (and Caserio and Pioli) have managed to balance the cap and field the most successful franchise for the last 20 years. We are the 6th largest metropolitan market, but until Kraft bought this team the Patriots were the red-headed step-child amongst the 4 major NE (Boston) sports franchises. It's not even a question. Where do the Patriots rank now? After 35 years of, for the most part, futility we've had 20 years of unparalelled success. Adhering to and maintaining the salary cap model they have steadfastly done has yeilded amazing results and I see no reason why this team should alter their strategy.

Free Agency began in 1994, when Kraft bought the team. Many forget, before 1994, there was no salary cap. You could spend as much as you wanted. Take a look at this teams history before 1994 and you'll quickly realize no team has benefitted more from the institution of the cap than we have.

FACT.

TRUTH.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 19, 2015

Kraft gets criticized here plenty for non cap financial moves, ST pricing, SB ticket distribution (lack of), and moves like removing end zone seats held by rabid fans and putting in a "beautiful people" drinking & socializing quiet zone section in its place.

alamo · Mar 19, 2015

DaBronxPats14 said:
Majority owner: Robert Kraft, 73
Source of wealth: Rand-Whitney Group, International Forest Products, Family Office and Private Equity
Net worth: $4.3 billion (Forbes)
Franchise valuation: $2.6 billion
Family: Sons Jonathan, Daniel, Josh, David

What is the future after Robert Kraft? His current life expectancy is 14 years.

Given he is worth 1.7B even without the team (though the stadium and Patriot Place is probably a good part of that), he is no Ralph Wilson whose heirs had to sell the team to pay inheritance taxes.

Or is he? Just as we discuss going all-in on a season, would the Krafts go all-in on the Patriots, using his wealth in other areas to be able to keep the team without significant equity dilution? And has anyone seen any indication whether his sons other than Jonathan care enough to do so?

I suspect even his critics would prefer him to most of the possibilities after he is gone.

rochrist · Mar 19, 2015

DaBronxPats14 said:
Majority owner: Robert Kraft, 73
Minority owners: None
Source of wealth: Rand-Whitney Group, International Forest Products, Family Office and Private Equity
Net worth: $4.3 billion (Forbes)
Residence: Brookline, Massachusetts
Marital status: Widowed
Family: Sons Jonathan, Daniel, Josh, David........... & TOM BRADY lol
Education: Columbia (arts/science); Harvard (MBA)
When purchased team and for how much:1994, for $172 million
Franchise valuation: $2.6 billion (Forbes)
2014 revenue/rank: $428 million (net of stadium revenues used for debt payments)/second (Forbes)
Owns stadium (how much invested): Yes (privately financed at $325 million and opened in 2002)
Ownership philosophy: Continuity, stability and sustained success, with strong management of the salary cap.
Defining moment in ownership tenure: First Super Bowl championship, 2001 season. Hiring Bill Belichick, 2000.
Regular/postseason wins-losses during tenure: 229-107/24-12
General managers during tenure: Bill Parcells (1994-1996), Bobby Grier (1997-1999), Bill Belichick (2000-present)
Coaches during tenure: Bill Parcells (1994-1996), Pete Carroll (1997-1999), Bill Belichick (2000-present)
Playoff appearances: 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
Super Bowl appearances/championships: Lost to Packers 35-21 in Super Bowl XXXI (1996 season), defeated Rams 20-17 in Super Bowl XXXVI (2001), defeated Panthers 32-29 in Super Bowl XXXVIII (2003), defeated Eagles 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX (2004), lost to Giants 17-14 in Super Bowl XLII (2007), lost to Giants 21-17 in Super Bowl XLVI (2011), defeated Seahawks 28-24 in Super Bowl XLIX (2014).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So our Fearless Leader did good for himself.
Most knock him for bein cheap but I think it's just way Cap Number plays into signings, age etc.
But with that said, if there was Luxury Taxes like in baseball (See Yankees) and teams were able to sign players with no limitations of salaries paid,would Kraft splurge and go "All In"?

'Most' don't knock him for being cheap. Idiots knock him for being cheap. The rest of us bloody well appreciate what we've got in him.

OhExaulted1 · Mar 19, 2015

DaBronxPats14 said:
Majority owner: Robert Kraft, 73
Minority owners: None
Source of wealth: Rand-Whitney Group, International Forest Products, Family Office and Private Equity
Net worth: $4.3 billion (Forbes)
Residence: Brookline, Massachusetts
Marital status: Widowed
Family: Sons Jonathan, Daniel, Josh, David........... & TOM BRADY lol
Education: Columbia (arts/science); Harvard (MBA)
When purchased team and for how much:1994, for $172 million
Franchise valuation: $2.6 billion (Forbes)
2014 revenue/rank: $428 million (net of stadium revenues used for debt payments)/second (Forbes)
Owns stadium (how much invested): Yes (privately financed at $325 million and opened in 2002)
Ownership philosophy: Continuity, stability and sustained success, with strong management of the salary cap.
Defining moment in ownership tenure: First Super Bowl championship, 2001 season. Hiring Bill Belichick, 2000.
Regular/postseason wins-losses during tenure: 229-107/24-12
General managers during tenure: Bill Parcells (1994-1996), Bobby Grier (1997-1999), Bill Belichick (2000-present)
Coaches during tenure: Bill Parcells (1994-1996), Pete Carroll (1997-1999), Bill Belichick (2000-present)
Playoff appearances: 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
Super Bowl appearances/championships: Lost to Packers 35-21 in Super Bowl XXXI (1996 season), defeated Rams 20-17 in Super Bowl XXXVI (2001), defeated Panthers 32-29 in Super Bowl XXXVIII (2003), defeated Eagles 24-21 in Super Bowl XXXIX (2004), lost to Giants 17-14 in Super Bowl XLII (2007), lost to Giants 21-17 in Super Bowl XLVI (2011), defeated Seahawks 28-24 in Super Bowl XLIX (2014).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So our Fearless Leader did good for himself.
Most knock him for bein cheap but I think it's just way Cap Number plays into signings, age etc.
But with that said, if there was Luxury Taxes like in baseball (See Yankees) and teams were able to sign players with no limitations of salaries paid,would Kraft splurge and go "All In"?

You forgot to include the dude built a friggin' city. Literally.

Hercules Rockefeller · Mar 19, 2015

Clonamery said:
It's something I've always wondered but have been reticent to mention.....

I don't even wonder, I'm certain it's a factor in morons bashing the best owner in North American sports. I've seen overt references to him hoarding his shekels and it's really disgusting to read. Once saw one so blatant that our own venerable PatJew replied in a way that seemed like he wanted to punch the idiot through the computer. I was so appalled I would have held the clowns arms back and let PJ work him over. There's no room for that in a modern society.

RayClay · Mar 19, 2015

Anyone with a sense of patriots history knows he did way overspend and for a team that wasn't a player away either.

Then he hired a manager and trusts him to manage the financials so he can be a fan and write the checks.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

TomPatriot said:
I'm sorry but when I hear people say Kraft is "cheap" I see that as a euphemism for something a bit uglier.

B-I-N-G-O.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

Hercules Rockefeller said:
I don't even wonder, I'm certain it's a factor in morons bashing the best owner in North American sports. I've seen overt references to him hoarding his shekels and it's really disgusting to read. Once saw one so blatant that our own venerable PatJew replied in a way that seemed like he wanted to punch the idiot through the computer. I was so appalled I would have held the clowns arms back and let PJ work him over. There's no room for that in a modern society.

There are still some dinosaurs living in different pockets of New England and other places.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

letekro said:
Why Kraft gets an exemption for that while Revis and other players are raked over the coals I don't fully understand.

So where have you been the past 21 years? When has there NOT been someone from old-timey Boston calling Kraft cheap?

If you think Kraft gotten an "exemption", then I'm sure someone has some excellent oceanfront property in Iowa to sell you.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Kraft gets criticized here plenty for non cap financial moves, ST pricing, SB ticket distribution (lack of), and moves like removing end zone seats held by rabid fans and putting in a "beautiful people" drinking & socializing quiet zone section in its place.

Where are the PSLs? Where are the hundreds of millions of dollars in state financing of the stadium?

Is there ONE other stadium in the NFL that is so AWAY FROM the pockets of the taxpayers?

Please show me ONE.

primetime · Mar 19, 2015

shmessy said:
Where are the PSLs? Where are the hundreds of millions of dollars in state financing of the stadium?

Is there ONE other stadium in the NFL that is so AWAY FROM the pockets of the taxpayers?

Please show me ONE.

Lambeau.

But yeah to Kraft's great credit, financing that stadium himself is a big win in my book. Public financing of stadiums is bad, bad, bad.

QuantumMechanic · Mar 19, 2015

primetime said:
Lambeau.

But yeah to Kraft's great credit, financing that stadium himself is a big win in my book. Public financing of stadiums is bad, bad, bad.

Can't believe you of all people are giving Kraft credit for that.

The stadium was only not publicly financed because for once in the past 30+ years the MA legislature actually acted sanely and refused to whore themselves out to Kraft.

Also, Kraft was perfectly happy to accept taxpayer-raping proceeds from Hartford.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the team ended up staying in Foxboro and that he decided to go ahead and use his own money after the state showed him the back of the hand. But it's not like he used his own money because he believes public financing of stadiums is wrong. It's because he weighed his options and decided that Foxboro & using his own money was better for him in the long term than somewhere else & taxpayer financing.

Ivan · Mar 19, 2015

shmessy said:
There are still some dinosaurs living in different pockets of New England and other places.

Such as Fall River?

PATSNUTme · Mar 19, 2015

rlcarr said:
Can't believe you of all people are giving Kraft credit for that.

The stadium was only not publicly financed because for once in the past 30+ years the MA legislature actually acted sanely and refused to whore themselves out to Kraft.

Also, Kraft was perfectly happy to accept taxpayer-raping proceeds from Hartford.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the team ended up staying in Foxboro and that he decided to go ahead and use his own money after the state showed him the back of the hand. But it's not like he used his own money because he believes public financing of stadiums is wrong. It's because he weighed his options and decided that Foxboro & using his own money was better for him in the long term than somewhere else & taxpayer financing.

Does it really matter why he privately funded the stadium? I think we should all be grateful that he didn't move the team to a place that would have given him a sweetheart publically funded deal. And I'm sure there would have been several places that would have given anything to get this franchise to move.

My head is hurting reading some the post on this forum since the FA period.

letekro · Mar 19, 2015

shmessy said:
So where have you been the past 21 years? When has there NOT been someone from old-timey Boston calling Kraft cheap?

If you think Kraft gotten an "exemption", then I'm sure someone has some excellent oceanfront property in Iowa to sell you.

My point was more about Revis and the players being treated unfairly, but maybe youre right. Kraft the Jew is seen as cheap and the players that toil for our amusement are seen as uppity when asking for more.

Ivan · Mar 19, 2015

PATSNUTme said:
My head is hurting reading some the post on this forum since the FA period.

Yep, it's been painful. Time to start really looking at the draft as the major moves in free agency across the league have been made and teams will make their draft moves and then fill out their rosters in the summer. The bad news was that the Patriots lost some really good players and some depth but the good news is that while the AFCE got a little stronger the Patriots major rivals really didn't. Indy made the most noise but still won't be able to stop the run, and Denver, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh got worse to this point. The Patriots are in good financial shape and are probably the youngest team out of the major players in the AFC. There's still plenty of time for teams to upgrade so the rest of the off season should be interesting.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

rlcarr said:
Can't believe you of all people are giving Kraft credit for that.

The stadium was only not publicly financed because for once in the past 30+ years the MA legislature actually acted sanely and refused to whore themselves out to Kraft.

Also, Kraft was perfectly happy to accept taxpayer-raping proceeds from Hartford.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the team ended up staying in Foxboro and that he decided to go ahead and use his own money after the state showed him the back of the hand. But it's not like he used his own money because he believes public financing of stadiums is wrong. It's because he weighed his options and decided that Foxboro & using his own money was better for him in the long term than somewhere else & taxpayer financing.

Wow, nice historic revisionism.

After Menino and Weld's Megaplex proposal (which included the Red Sox) died, Kraft put forward a plan for a 100% privately funded football stadium in Southie. It would have involved land transfers from Massport that Kraft was willing to pay for. One other property, however, was the a small parcel that belonged to the US Army. Joe Moakley called US Army chief Togo West and told him not to sell to Kraft. West thought that someday Moakley might become the head of the House Ways and Means Commitee and he toed Joe's line. Moakley had a lot of power - - just remember that when you drive over that bridge he got named after his wife.

Kraft was shut out because he was not wanted in that neighborhood.

The same people who today call him cheap didn't want his kind there.

shmessy · Mar 19, 2015

PATSNUTme said:
Does it really matter why he privately funded the stadium? I think we should all be grateful that he didn't move the team to a place that would have given him a sweetheart publically funded deal. And I'm sure there would have been several places that would have given anything to get this franchise to move.

My head is hurting reading some the post on this forum since the FA period.

Exactly. Rlcarr seems to think Kraft had no options of other cities that would have loved to roll out the red carpet for him. Kraft, being who he is, wouldn't entertain any option outside of New England.

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