Is this the worst FA period for the Pats in the last 10 Years?

neuronet · Mar 18, 2015

DW Toys said:
I have seen the forum fights back and forth about whether the Pats are better today than when the last second of the Super Bowl happened.

Nobody has argued that losing Revis made us better. People have argued about the magnitude of the loss.

UK_Pat37 · Mar 18, 2015

DW Toys said:
Cousins,
We all agree this is a great Football club and Coach. I have seen the forum fights back and forth about whether the Pats are better today than when the last second of the Super Bowl happened. In all honesty they are not. The obvious hole being CB.

Most of us would have been happy during this FA period if Revis was our main signing. The $39mm he got from the Jets was only a million a year more (guaranteed) than we gave him last year and with all of the Pats resources they could not pull the trigger? They had a year to figure a way to sign Revis. There is no excuse or spin for losing him to all you Kool Aid drinkers. Epic fail.

Browner was good not great but we could have kept his hard ass presence. Not crying.

We overpayed and signed a FS who is "O.K" but not an Ed Reed. He is the second highest paid FS in the league...Crazy that we could not think Revis was worth more. Most on this forum says Revis.

Some one did this but I will again.
QB=Great
RB=O.K. we lost one but not that big a deal (missed on Bush, missed on Spiller)
TE=We pick up a decent back up. Nothing to see here but we have good TEs.
WR=We are still trying to figure out if Dobson is a bust so we are searching WRs (missed on Harvin, Missed on Johnson).
OL= Connolly can be replaced with a guy a lot younger and can still do multi positions in Stefan Wesniewski and he still sits or even Blaylock would be an upgrade) A head scratcher.

DL=We lose Wilfork. O.K. I might get the age thing. Branch resign was a must do.In the mean time (missed on this kid Walker who was a backup anyway, missed on Knighton at stupid cheap money, missed on Fairley even for more stupid cheap money, Starks? ) Rubin sits. Is he not a value and young? Now Bennett wants out of Seattle. I would throw a first rounder for him. He wants to up his $7mm a year salary. I think he is worth more. Would Pete let us have him? Doesn't matter. BB is hunkering down.

Good one in Sheard signing

LB=Bad one in letting Ayers for for $3mm per year. Good player!

We lost Cassilas a great ST player and could not get the Gachkar kid to even sign with us to replace him.

CB= I think we have beat this to death. Both starting Niner CBS who were young and had good production were fairly cheap and nyet on them (missed those two and Tramon Williams) All three of those better than we have. The had their chance at 3 young starting CBs. We passed.

S=Same but we are paying more and through the nose.

We have lost five great/good players on the Defense
We have lost SB hero Vareen and Connolly (meh) on the offense.

We know of eight players that have spurned us (that we know of) to be signed by other Teams. Either we are not stepping up to the plate financially or there is some master plan. I think the former...but we have the greatest CAP plan in the NFL!!! Woop!

There is only 17% chance that our Draft picks will be successful and on the Pats roster via the Draft in three years. Some of those only JAGs. I know we have some build-from-the-Drafters but we needs some players that can play now as well.

I know we are never full all-in in the FA season, but I have never seen us so non aggressive even on the left overs. I have never see so many players spurn a previous SB champ Team. We have gotten out asses kicked on 8 that we know of (not including some camp filler signings)

What is going on Gentlemen? Thoughts? Are we so hypnotized by BB that we think we have a Team as good as last year? Are the SB winner F.O. a little arrogant in their dealings? Are we so accustomed to success that we should not have the audacity to ***** a little when the Pats are actually missing?

Is not the Mantra "Do Your Job" part of BBs best used lines (as in GM moves?). Is "Whats Best for the Team" happening right now? You tell me.

Love BB as the best coach ever but what is going on?

DW Toys

McCourty is not over-paid. That notion is ridiculous. He is a top five safety and we couldn't afford to lose him if Revis and Browner walked. You're whining about the Patriots potentially low-balling people, but complaining about one of the top players in his position getting a pay day to prevent him going elsewhere...when it is also said we upped our offer at the last minute to keep him from going. You're completely contradicting yourself.

In regards to Browner I agree, not really a guy I felt HAD to be back...especially at what his agent got him elsewhere. Revis was tough to swallow but the Patriots offer was not far off the Jets. The only real difference was guaranteed money but that's not a minor detail when you have so many Free Agents and you're building for sustained, long term success. Guaranteed money is a HUGE deal...to both sides of the table...and is usually the deal breaker. I would be livid if we screwed our cap space for a frigging cornerback...great D Lines can make the worst secondaries look elite, so I would sooner spend the money there.

Cassilas...you'll find a UDFA to replace him. Seriously? Your angry about that?

Ayers...no point paying him the money he got when Sheard, if healthy, takes ALL his snaps. Sheard is a far better all-round player and can play standing up and with his hand in the dirt.

QB - no concern
WR/TE - no concern...drastically improved you could argue with Chandler
OL - there's a slight need there. Connolly would be a blow, but not irreplaceable if he walks. Interior line should b bolstered through the draft or the open market via trade id necessary.
RB - slightly up in the air. Vereen was far to expensive...especially when we have showed third down backs are in good supply and this Cadet kid looks pretty decent. I think he will fill in. Ridley I feel would be a blow...if we bring him back RB really isn't too much of a concern for me even after the ligament damage. Him, Blount, Gray, Cadet, Bolden? That's absolutely fine.

LB - no issues. Mayo will be back healthy with Hightower and Collins. Sheard at OLB/DL makes that one scary corps.
DL - obvious need for more interior pressure. We need to tackle DL at both inside and outside in the draft.
DB - the gaping whole. Now every team has one huge concern in an off season and this is it. It's March...season doesn't start until September mate...calm down

It seems it doesn't matter what season it is and what the outcome is. Every year all I hear it, 'the Pats aren't getting any better whilst all the other teams are catching up'. I have news for you; THERE'S A REASON THEY ARE CATCHING UP...and there's a reason they've been trying to play catch up for nearly 15 years and failing miserably by ignoring the example we have been setting for that whole time.

I personally find it so much fun watching guys reach and over-spend in our division whilst we continue to own it. Of course that will end at some point...sooner rather than later...but that's just how the cycle works.

Is this team that much worse off? Not really.

Sicilian · Mar 18, 2015

supafly said:
Yeah, the Broncos and Pats were pretty much the #1 and #2 free agency "winners" last year and both received first round byes in the postseason, so I think they did alright. That said, they were also both in the AFCCG the prior season, so they had something to go on already and were simply adding.

I think we see these "dream teams" fail in the spring during free agency because there simply just isn't a strong enough foundation in place for those teams to begin with.

What's interesting though is that both the Broncos and Patriots were bye week teams in 2013. Then they both "won" free agency, and ended up being bye week teams again. One of them did better (the team that came in 2nd in free agency) and the other did worse. You can say the health of Manning had something to do with the Broncos fortunes, but you could easily say the health of Mayo, Wilfork, Gronk, and Talib (in the AFCCG) had just as much to do with the Patriots playoff loss in 2013.

All this to say, the idea that we won the Super Bowl last year because we won free agency is narrow focused IMO. I know that's not what you were saying personally in your post, but it's a prevailing opinion on this board that I can't agree with.

Free_Pacman · Mar 18, 2015

Look, I'm as big of a homer for the Patriots (and especially Brady and Belichick) as they come, but this has been a bad offseason for us and stating that doesn't make me a "chicken little" or fairweather fan. The reality of the situation is that we lost our best defensive player (to no fault of our own own, as I believe he was going back to the Jets regardless of how much money we offered) and have let too many FAs leave Gillette without a contract (this I do fault them for). Our defense has taken some huge steps back and has unquestionably reverted back to the 2008-2012 days. While it's still somewhat early, all major FAs are gone and the NFL is a notoriously difficult league to trade in. To have my and others' fandom questioned because we're not happy how this offseason has turned out is complete bull$$%^.

Free_Pacman · Mar 18, 2015

UK_Pat37 said:
McCourty is not over-paid. That notion is ridiculous. He is a top five safety and we couldn't afford to lose him if Revis and Browner walked. You're whining about the Patriots potentially low-balling people, but complaining about one of the top players in his position getting a pay day to prevent him going elsewhere...when it is also said we upped our offer at the last minute to keep him from going. You're completely contradicting yourself.

In regards to Browner I agree, not really a guy I felt HAD to be back...especially at what his agent got him elsewhere. Revis was tough to swallow but the Patriots offer was not far off the Jets. The only real difference was guaranteed money but that's not a minor detail when you have so many Free Agents and you're building for sustained, long term success. Guaranteed money is a HUGE deal...to both sides of the table...and is usually the deal breaker. I would be livid if we screwed our cap space for a frigging cornerback...great D Lines can make the worst secondaries look elite, so I would sooner spend the money there.

Cassilas...you'll find a UDFA to replace him. Seriously? Your angry about that?

Ayers...no point paying him the money he got when Sheard, if healthy, takes ALL his snaps. Sheard is a far better all-round player and can play standing up and with his hand in the dirt.

QB - no concern
WR/TE - no concern...drastically improved you could argue with Chandler
OL - there's a slight need there. Connolly would be a blow, but not irreplaceable if he walks. Interior line should b bolstered through the draft or the open market via trade id necessary.
RB - slightly up in the air. Vereen was far to expensive...especially when we have showed third down backs are in good supply and this Cadet kid looks pretty decent. I think he will fill in. Ridley I feel would be a blow...if we bring him back RB really isn't too much of a concern for me even after the ligament damage. Him, Blount, Gray, Cadet, Bolden? That's absolutely fine.

LB - no issues. Mayo will be back healthy with Hightower and Collins. Sheard at OLB/DL makes that one scary corps.
DL - obvious need for more interior pressure. We need to tackle DL at both inside and outside in the draft.
DB - the gaping whole. Now every team has one huge concern in an off season and this is it. It's March...season doesn't start until September mate...calm down

It seems it doesn't matter what season it is and what the outcome is. Every year all I hear it, 'the Pats aren't getting any better whilst all the other teams are catching up'. I have news for you; THERE'S A REASON THEY ARE CATCHING UP...and there's a reason they've been trying to play catch up for nearly 15 years and failing miserably by ignoring the example we have been setting for that whole time.

I personally find it so much fun watching guys reach and over-spend in our division whilst we continue to own it. Of course that will end at some point...sooner rather than later...but that's just how the cycle works.

Is this team that much worse off? Not really.

You're looking at each position as if it's in a vacuum which isn't the case. All these positions are synergistic. A great secondary makes your LB corps and DL stronger, and a poor secondary does the opposite. You say we have no real issues outside of the secondary, but you're evaluating the performance of the rest of the defensive groups through the eyes of a team with an elite secondary.

Triumph · Mar 18, 2015

D Bucky was resigned.

All is good.

Bruins29 · Mar 18, 2015

Free_Pacman said:
To have my and others' fandom questioned because we're not happy how this offseason has turned out is complete bull$$%^.

What is ******** is this statement. It is a complete straw man.

captain stone · Mar 18, 2015

Good value: Gibson & Sheard.

Not-so-good value: all the others.

IllegalContact · Mar 18, 2015

there are 2 types of offseasons.......the ones where the pats win an SB and the ones where the pats don't

the only truth is that if you win an SB, there is only one direction things can go......

the pats are going to be quite young next year.......which is ok

OhExaulted1 · Mar 18, 2015

Is this the stupidest thread since 2000? You know, since the last time this team finished under .500.

OhExaulted1 · Mar 18, 2015

The only way to win is by signing tall name WR's. It's a consistent approach that has proved itself time and time again as the only avenue to fielding a champinship Fantasy/Madden team.

As far as the real world, everyone knows you win the SB in March. That's been obvious since 1994.

Kdo5 · Mar 18, 2015

Has it been a great FA period? No. Is it catastrophic and historically bad? I don't think so. I was disappointed that Revis left but it seemed increasingly likely that he would not be returning. If he really did prefer the NYJ and the money was an issue pertaining to a tighter cap situation, then...what're ya gonna do? I won't whine about it all season. As for everything else...

- I don't see how we need to be overly concerned on offense. The loss of Vereen was expected and hopefully Cadet can adequately fill the role. I'd have been more concerned if we banked on White to fill the role.

- The rest of the offense looks perfectly good. Chandler was a very good addition. We can still try to shore up the offensive line in the draft. The receivers are fine and I am optimistic on Dobson. His health is a big central issue. If he can recover fully and have a consistent offseason, I believe he can produce for us. Still I did hope for an extra receiver like Harvin or Stevie. I thought that could've had big time potential for our offense. But even so our offense is still very good. I feel pretty good about this side of the ball.

- Defensively, I was thrilled to hear that we got Sheard. Vince's absence is the primary hole in the front seven. Whatever we do to rectify it, the rest of the lineman/linebackers have me excited. We are loaded with Jones/Branch/Ninkovich/Hightower/Sheard/Collins/Mayo.

- ...and the secondary. The glaring problem. I am not crucifying Belichick and the FO for not retaining Revis. The decision to let Browner walk seemed questionable to me and I've heard decent arguments from both sides on the subject. If I have one complaint regarding the secondary, it is that we have done a piss poor job filling these fresh, gaping holes. There were CB's out there, cheaper than Revis in FA. I was surprised that we merely kept who we have. Ryan is not meant for the outside. Neither is Arrington. You've got Dennard who was hurt and inactive much of the year and Butler who was inactive for several games throughout the season. I hope they see something in the draft to help because the current group is nerve wracking. Oh and McCourty is not overrated. Thank god we retained him, because it would be the apocalypse on PatsFans if he was a goner too. I don't agree with some arguments that it was a choice of Revis or McCourty. If anything I thought the last minute signing of Devin may have had to do with pessimism that Revis would not return.

Eh didn't mean to post so much but overall I think a number of people are overreacting. We can be concerned about the secondary for sure, but I feel pretty good about the rest of the team. We'll figure out how to survive, win the division, make the playoffs and likely be a contender once again.

UK_Pat37 · Mar 18, 2015

Free_Pacman said:
You're looking at each position as if it's in a vacuum which isn't the case. All these positions are synergistic. A great secondary makes your LB corps and DL stronger, and a poor secondary does the opposite. You say we have no real issues outside of the secondary, but you're evaluating the performance of the rest of the defensive groups through the eyes of a team with an elite secondary.

You can reverse that; a poor secondary can be made to look great by a great DL and LB corps.

What's your point?

Free_Pacman · Mar 18, 2015

UK_Pat37 said:
You can reverse that; a poor secondary can be made to look great by a great DL and LB corps.

What's your point?

Last year was viewed as a breakout year for guys like Collins and Hightower. You say our LB corps is fine and strong, which I assume you're declaring based off the play of guys like Hightower And Collins. Well, last year, these guys had a breakout year with an elite secondary playing behind them. This year they'll be playing with a bottom-tier secondary behind them. My point is that you chat just blindly assume that Hightower and Collins can continue playing they way they did this year when there's scrubs playing behind them.

Mountain_Commando · Mar 18, 2015

Free_Pacman said:
To have my and others' fandom questioned because we're not happy how this offseason has turned out is complete bull$$%^.

If you're really such a hardcore fan, then show some faith in the FO. It's only mid-March for crying out loud.

Free_Pacman · Mar 18, 2015

Bruins29 said:
What is ******** is this statement. It is a complete straw man.

I would just like to point out your own post just 40 minutes ago in response to people complaining about the Fletcher signing...

"I aas just going to say that. God, the Pink Hats are in full force. They just dont get it."

Who's building that straw man again?

Bruins29 · Mar 18, 2015

Free_Pacman said:
. This year they'll be playing with a bottom-tier secondary behind them.

I want to know how to get the insider info on the FO moves and future moves. Must be cool to have that. Unless you are talking about the game this weekend?

Bruins29 · Mar 18, 2015

Free_Pacman said:
I would just like to point out your own post just 40 minutes ago in response to people complaining about the Fletcher signing...

"I aas just going to say that. God, the Pink Hats are in full force. They just dont get it."

Who's building that straw man again?

Wow! I am going to explain it to you. You went all pissy about the right to complain about how the off season turned out.

Turned out? Turned out means the off season is complete. It means the players we have are the players we start the year with.

The off season hasn't TURNED OUT anything because it just started. Get it?

Stop being a *****.

billdog3484 · Mar 18, 2015

Bruins29 said:
I want to know how to get the insider info on the FO moves and future moves. Must be cool to have that. Unless you are talking about the game this weekend?

oh bruins. ill give you credit, you really really love bill belichick (queue the correct spelling). the things id imagine youd do for him

Bruins29 · Mar 18, 2015

billdog3484 said:
oh bruins. ill give you credit, you really really love bill belichick (queue the correct spelling). the things id imagine youd do for him

I question things. I debate and have discussions. Does it bother you that I take a wait and see approach as opposed to cry like a ****y like you did?

But then again I did not play football at a level 99.999999999 higher than everyone else here and then claim my education was also higher.

LMFAO!

Is this the worst FA period for the Pats in the last 10 Years?

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