D. Smith re-elected NFLPA Pres. No Gilbert!

BTTA · Mar 16, 2015

primetime said:
He's also advocating against spoiled rich billionaires who make oodles of money off of those largely undereducated millionaires' bodies, though.

Isn't that redundant a couple of times over?

Generally I'd agree with you although an NFL strike would probably be a disservice to the masses of working people in the U.S. in that it would be a distraction from the issues that really matter. Has the NFL become the new opiate?

roguepatriot · Mar 16, 2015

At least the players have a bit of sense; now if only the owners could follow suit.

Oh and I forgot that FIFA and the Olympics need a similar clean-up to the NFL. Really wish we could take corruption/bad politics out of sport.

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

betterthanthealternative said:
Isn't that redundant a couple of times over?

Generally I'd agree with you although an NFL strike would probably be a disservice to the masses of working people in the U.S. in that it would be a distraction from the issues that really matter. Has the NFL become the new opiate?

On one hand, I can understand the average worker having less sympathy for the NFLPA than other unions, but I also think that the one-sidedness of NFL labor "negotiations" speaks to the general state of the labor movement in the United States. NFL players, after all, generate a huge, trillion dollar business and there's only about a thousand of them; their labor power is much more valuable than the average worker, but they're still required to sell their labor power to some owner or corporation like most of us are.

I don't know, there's definitely nuance there. I'm not sure I buy the "distraction" argument, but I do get what you're going for.

KDPPatsfan85 · Mar 16, 2015

If Gilbert won, there would be holdouts galore by players.

Ring 6 · Mar 16, 2015

Wheelman said:
Darelle must be devastated

Oh well....suck it Darelle! That's what you can expect from your career with the rats.

In all seriousness though. The way Demaurice Smith bent over for Goodell and the NFL owners and knowing how Gilbert has a hard stance like Revis. Why the heck did nobody vote for Gilbert. Gilbert would have told the NFL to stick it and the whole 2011 season would have been cancelled. Should have voted for Gilbert...NFL players screwed themselves again.

Why would it have been good for the players to vote in a guy who would cancel their season?

TeamFirst · Mar 16, 2015

Gilbert was never getting in. As for his negotiating skills, which he boasted about in his statement is complete ********. The guy new the Jets were going to pay whatever they wanted and he took advantage of it. The next best offer was the Patriots and Revis had no interest in coming back to the Patriots which is why they bowed out early.

Gilbert would have been bad for the NFL and everyone involved. I am glad the players realized that and voted unanimously to keep D.Smith.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 16, 2015

Anyone advocating a holdout ignores the thousands of people employed by teams and stadiums who lose critical income in their low wage jobs. Screw Gilbert & the horse he rode out on.

ViperGTS · Mar 16, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Anyone advocating a holdout ignores the thousands of people employed by teams and stadiums who lose critical income in their low wage jobs. Screw Gilbert & the horse he rode out on.

Agreed. While there are good reasons at times, it's not about his methods. Money vs winning rather than a mix of both when the times show themselves. Drew Rosenhaus seems to be in that mold to me and thus knows what's really going on. It's not worth grinding a system to a halt over a few million dollars.

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Anyone advocating a holdout ignores the thousands of people employed by teams and stadiums who lose critical income in their low wage jobs. Screw Gilbert & the horse he rode out on.

This is a classic argument, but most of these low-wage jobs are for a few hours a week at most and are temporary and seasonal. If you're going to make that argument, why not the other? Think of those workers - the NFL season should never end!

Wheelman · Mar 16, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Why would it have been good for the players to vote in a guy who would cancel their season?

To force Dictator Goodell to give his judge, jury, and executioner powers up.

PatsWickedPissah · Mar 16, 2015

primetime said:
This is a classic argument, but most of these low-wage jobs are for a few hours a week at most and are temporary and seasonal. If you're going to make that argument, why not the other? Think of those workers - the NFL season should never end!

Different
To those workers the $ earned is likely critical to paying their cost of living
NFL $ for players is way above the cost of living
And yes I'm aware that many choose high cost of living lifestyles
Those workers do not have the choice to downscale

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Different
To those workers the $ earned is likely critical to paying their cost of living
NFL $ for players is way above the cost of living
And yes I'm aware that many choose high cost of living lifestyles
Those workers do not have the choice to downscale

I'm not downplaying the plight of the low-wage worker, just pointing out that the temporary elimination of temporary, intermittent, seasonal low-wage jobs isn't going to seriously affect anyone because those sorts of jobs are almost always available in one form or another.

AQPE · Mar 16, 2015

Sorry to say that I'm woefully uninformed about Gilbert's actual experience that makes him a credible candidate to lead the NFLPA in dealing with the league. Can anyone please provide a quick summary indicating what it is, specifically, that he himself has actually accomplished that would convince a majority of players that he is superior to D. Smith to lead them? Additionally, I'm under the impression that the league and the players agreed to a long-term (10 years?) deal just two or three years ago. Is Gilbert advocating the abrogation of that agreement or is there a provision in the agreement that give the players the opportunity to change in now? If the players were to abrogate the agreement, wouldn't there be legal recourse for the league, it sees peculiar to me given the magnitude of the agreement that the players could simply walk away from a deal they ratified, without consequence to their association, but as I said I am not up on the details here.

ViperGTS · Mar 16, 2015

AQPE said:
Sorry to say that I'm woefully uninformed about Gilbert's actual experience that makes him a credible candidate to lead the NFLPA in dealing with the league. Can anyone please provide a quick summary indicating what it is, specifically, that he himself has actually accomplished that would convince a majority of players that he is superior to D. Smith to lead them? Additionally, I'm under the impression that the league and the players agreed to a long-term (10 years?) deal just two or three years ago. Is Gilbert advocating the abrogation of that agreement or is there a provision in the agreement that give the players the opportunity to change in now? If the players were to abrogate the agreement, wouldn't there be legal recourse for the league, it sees peculiar to me given the magnitude of the agreement that the players could simply walk away from a deal they ratified, without consequence to their association, but as I said I am not up on the details here.

Basically, from my memory he would like to rip up the current CBA and strike until he got his way. He wants to have EVERY contract guaranteed if he could get his way IMO. The owners NEVER will go for this and rightfully so. The smart players know this. His collusion lawsuit right now is regarding language of those contracts. So in short, he wants to fundamentally change the pay scale of the NFL and have owners on the hook for full contracts regardless of injury, criminal acts or whatnot. Very, very bad for the league. Not to mention the ramifications on the salary cap, regardless of the amount it's set at.

NormZauchin · Mar 16, 2015

primetime said:
On one hand, I can understand the average worker having less sympathy for the NFLPA than other unions, but I also think that the one-sidedness of NFL labor "negotiations" speaks to the general state of the labor movement in the United States. NFL players, after all, generate a huge, trillion dollar business and there's only about a thousand of them; their labor power is much more valuable than the average worker, but they're still required to sell their labor power to some owner or corporation like most of us are.

I don't know, there's definitely nuance there. I'm not sure I buy the "distraction" argument, but I do get what you're going for.

Anyone who conflates the words "professional athlete" and "labor" is sorely lacking in perspective. With so many Americans working dead end jobs for minimum wage with few, if any, benefits, and others, somewhat better paid, continually under the threat of outsourcing or loss of jobs from removal to foreign countries, the concern for individuals who are in the top one percent in income (and who, in the main, show little concern for the growing inequality in this country) is, to put it mildly, misplaced.

Archeryaddict12 · Mar 16, 2015

Honestly NFL players, in fact any sports player doesn't deserve the millions they get. They get paid way to much money to do what they do.

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

NormZauchin said:
Anyone who conflates the words "professional athlete" and "labor" is sorely lacking in perspective. With so many Americans working dead end jobs for minimum wage with few, if any, benefits, and others, somewhat better paid, continually under the threat of outsourcing or loss of jobs from removal to foreign countries, the concern for individuals who are in the top one percent in income (and who, in the main, show little concern for the growing inequality in this country) is, to put it mildly, misplaced.

NFL players are workers; one can simultaneously note that NFL players are systematically underpaid relative to what the owners extract as profit from their labor while recognizing that is also true - and, indeed, as you've noted, more pointedly - in the American economy as a whole. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact that weakness of the NFLPA, a union that should have a ton of bargaining power, bespeaks the Gilded Age-level imbalance between capital and worker at the present.

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

Archeryaddict12 said:
Honestly NFL players, in fact any sports player doesn't deserve the millions they get. They get paid way to much money to do what they do.

Do owners make much more money than they deserve for owning an NFL franchise, or does your disdain for economy start and end with the workers, who produce all the value?

NormZauchin · Mar 16, 2015

primetime said:
NFL players are workers; one can simultaneously note that NFL players are systematically underpaid relative to what the owners extract as profit from their labor while recognizing that is also true - and, indeed, as you've noted, more pointedly - in the American economy as a whole. The two aren't mutually exclusive, and in fact that weakness of the NFLPA, a union that should have a ton of bargaining power, bespeaks the Gilded Age-level imbalance between capital and worker at the present.

One of the most important issues facing this country is the growing inequality over the past three decades and the implications for what was once a middle class based democracy. To use the situation in the NFL as an example of Gilded Age imbalance is hardly the first example that I would reference and is not likely to draw much sympathy from real workers. If you want to discredit the owners, better attack them for the sweetheart stadium deals they extract from cities and counties whose ordinary taxpayers (many who are not football fans) are left paying off the financial debt.

primetime · Mar 16, 2015

NormZauchin said:
One of the most important issues facing this country is the growing inequality over the past three decades and the implications for what was once a middle class based democracy. To use the situation in the NFL as an example of Gilded Age imbalance is hardly the first example that I would reference and is not likely to draw much sympathy from real workers. If you want to discredit the owners, better attack them for the sweetheart stadium deals they extract from cities and counties whose ordinary taxpayers (many who are not football fans) are left paying off the financial debt.

For what it's worth, I don't think we're on different sides here (probably making us different than most posters here), just arguing nuances from the same side. The NFLPA certainly isn't the first Gilded Age imbalance I would turn to (Walmart and others are far more inviting and obvious targets for reasons you're speaking about, and teachers have much more social value and have a union much more demonized), but it's the same principle. Albeit, as you've mentioned with millionaires. But those millionaires are singularly skilled human beings who create a trillion dollar industry.

I'll leave it at that since I'm sure the thread doesn't want to talk too much about this, but I'm happy to take it to PMs if you want.

D. Smith re-elected NFLPA Pres. No Gilbert!

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