PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

So, are we looking for cornerbacks?


and also explore other options at OG.......even if drafting Marpet......the expectation that he is going to be capable of starting in 2015 seems unreasonable......he will be pretty raw, especially when it comes to filling the needs of the LG in this system

If I had to predict, I'd bet BB takes someone like Douglas before Marpet. He takes the big school guys.
 
From a draft perspective, I have hit a rut. I was rolling along assuming that Revis would be a part of the defense and then POW!
The problem is, I feel like in most cases, the Patriots go into a draft with no glaring needs. This gives them the options and flexibility to move around and get their guys. This year, the needs are piling up (CBx2, OG, DT, LB)
I don't want it to become a situation where they are reaching for players to fill needs. I assume they won't, but that already got me in trouble.
That being said, if Peters is there at 32, I would take him. It is looking more and more that Waynes, Peters, and maybe even Johnson are off the board by then, and I don't see any other CB worth that high of pick. I am not a huge PJ Williams guy. His speed, COD, and inability to turn and find the ball scare me. He could be a penalty machine in the NFL if doesn't improve in those areas.
 
Why is no-one talking about Steven Nelson? He was the best CB at the senior bowl by a comfortable margin.
 
From a draft perspective, I have hit a rut. I was rolling along assuming that Revis would be a part of the defense and then POW!
The problem is, I feel like in most cases, the Patriots go into a draft with no glaring needs. This gives them the options and flexibility to move around and get their guys. This year, the needs are piling up (CBx2, OG, DT, LB)
I don't want it to become a situation where they are reaching for players to fill needs. I assume they won't, but that already got me in trouble.
That being said, if Peters is there at 32, I would take him. It is looking more and more that Waynes, Peters, and maybe even Johnson are off the board by then, and I don't see any other CB worth that high of pick. I am not a huge PJ Williams guy. His speed, COD, and inability to turn and find the ball scare me. He could be a penalty machine in the NFL if doesn't improve in those areas.

If there were a "sympathize" button I would hit it, repeatedly if possible. My whole defensive blueprint and draft board have been blown up in the past week. I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing - there is great creative value in deviating from convention and being forced to re-invent - but it's certainly much trickier.

A few thoughts:

1. I completely agree about not reaching to fill needs. That is the door that leads to perdition. Like you, I doubt the Pats will do that. The closest example that I can think of to going into a draft with a glaring need was 2010, after the Pats allowed Ben Watson to leave in FA and cut Chris Baker. That was the strongest prospective TE class in memory, which helped. Even so, the Pats made a strong play to trade for Greg Olsen from Chicago, before balking at the asking price (reportedly a 2nd). They double dipped with Gronk and Hernandez, and we know how that played out.

2. I agree about Marcus Peters being a high value target. He's the best press-man CB prospect I've seen in a couple of drafts. Right now he's probably #2 after Todd Gurley on my draft board. I think both are top 15 talents, and getting that kind of talent later on in the draft is what it's all about.

3. I know Manx likes PJ Williams, and I like his physicality, but his long speed and COD scare the hell out of me. I think he'd make a terrific #2 CB, but I think that I can get Eric Rowe or Josh Shaw to fill that role later - hopefully 40-50 picks later.

4. I think there's a good chance the Pats will do something between now and the draft to address the CB situation with a veteran. Tramon Williams and Peanut Tillman are still FAs. A trade could be explored. So I would continue to scout the position aggressively but keep an open mind.

Right now, my algorithm looks something like this:

1. Take Gurley if he's on the board at 32. If Gurley and Peters are both on the board, consider whether there is a way to get both. If not, consider whether you can get Peters and another top RB (Tevin Coleman, Jay Ajayi, David Johnson).

2. If Gurley is off the board, take Peters if he's available, then try to get one of the other top RBs, Hardison and Marpet (or other quality offensive lineman, though I'm still focused on Marpet).

3. If Gurley and Peters are both gone, look at who else at CB is available and what their value is. Consider trading back to grab Byron Jones or Kevin Johnson if they are still available, but don't reach.

My worst case scenario at CB would be to ignore the position until our projected 3rd round comp pick, then double dip there and on day 3. We could potentially get guys like Eric Rowe, Josh Shaw, Ronald Darby, Nick Marshall, etc. Not bad for the long term, but certainly not ideal for 2015.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
I've done some initial study of the top cornerbacks now and my favourites are Kevin Johnson and Ronald Darby. While they give up a bit in length, they are the best pure cover corners in the draft for me. Would take either at 32. Darby is currently rated at 104 in CBS rankings. If we could get him in the 2nd it would be an absolute steal. I think he's my binky for the draft.

I also like Marcus Peters. He's aggressive and good in man to man. However I think he's a bit stiff and gets beaten deep sometimes though so worry he might get exposed in the NFL.

There's been a lot of talk of Byron Jones and I would consider him in the mid second round. I don't think he's a first round talent but he has room to grow. The measurables are eye-popping but not certain they translate to the tape I've seen,

My initial top 5:

Johnson
Darby
Peters
Waynes
Jones
 
One more veteran CB gone. Tramon Williams signs with Cleveland. Reportedly $21M/3 years. Ridiculous.

Prediction: at some point between now and the start of the regular season, the Pats will pick up a better player at less than half that price.
 
Cleveland has to overpay.

That's largely the story of FA. The "have-nots" are desperate and have to overpay to attract talent, hoping to get out of a hole. It seldom works, and they often just dig a deeper one and repeat the cycle. The "haves" are too smart to play that game, and stay out of the hole to begin with.
 
Another crazy thought I have given more thought to. Is it possible with the contract they gave McCourty that they give him another shot at corner? He played well there as a rookie and was able to learn a new position and play well there as well. It could be an option they explore if a guy like Harmon is ready to get more playing time. Harmon was on the field for some important plays during the season and in the playoffs. Just another random though rolling around in my head.
 
Another crazy thought I have given more thought to. Is it possible with the contract they gave McCourty that they give him another shot at corner? He played well there as a rookie and was able to learn a new position and play well there as well. It could be an option they explore if a guy like Harmon is ready to get more playing time. Harmon was on the field for some important plays during the season and in the playoffs. Just another random though rolling around in my head.

He got payed the going rate for one of the best safeties in the game- I don't think the contract had anything to do with him switching to CB. I do think it might happen if they are desperate come training camp though but I doubt it's part of the plan currently.
 
Why is no-one talking about Steven Nelson? He was the best CB at the senior bowl by a comfortable margin.

I really like him and you are right, he should be talked about more now. When I first watched him, I thought he would be a nice option for a zone based scheme, which at the time, the Patriots were not running. Now that it looks like the switch will happen, he is back on my radar.
 
Why is no-one talking about Steven Nelson? He was the best CB at the senior bowl by a comfortable margin.

I really like him and you are right, he should be talked about more now. When I first watched him, I thought he would be a nice option for a zone based scheme, which at the time, the Patriots were not running. Now that it looks like the switch will happen, he is back on my radar.

Although I expect more zone in 2015, I still think that aggressive press-man coverage is the way to go in today's NFL, and what fits best with our front 6-7. As Matt Bowen noted in his article on Devin McCourty's value as a free agent:
Every team in the NFL wants to play physical man coverage. Jam the receivers, impact the release and funnel the routes inside. Go ahead and attack the wideouts at the snap, slide the feet and then drive to the hip to squeeze these guys to your help in the middle of the field.

That’s how you dictate the flow of the game from a defensive perspective.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2388200-devin-mccourty-is-the-jewel-of-2015-nfl-free-agency

Since I think the goal is to get back to playing that kind of coverage, I'm not as focused on guys like Nelson, personally, though he is clearly a solid zone CB prospect.
 
Although I expect more zone in 2015, I still think that aggressive press-man coverage is the way to go in today's NFL, and what fits best with our front 6-7. As Matt Bowen noted in his article on Devin McCourty's value as a free agent:


http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2388200-devin-mccourty-is-the-jewel-of-2015-nfl-free-agency

Since I think the goal is to get back to playing that kind of coverage, I'm not as focused on guys like Nelson, personally, though he is clearly a solid zone CB prospect.

Nelson plays press-man. I don't think he's just a zone corner at all. He's Alfonzo Dennard.
 
What about Josh Shaw in the 3rd? Tall, physical, and fluid. 26 bench reps and watching him in college tells me that the kid can play press man and do it well. He's also versatile but comes with questions surrounding that incident last summer. I haven't read the entire thread, but what about taking a chance on him and targeting a DT like Armstead or Goldman in the first round?
 
What about Josh Shaw in the 3rd? Tall, physical, and fluid. 26 bench reps and watching him in college tells me that the kid can play press man and do it well. He's also versatile but comes with questions surrounding that incident last summer. I haven't read the entire thread, but what about taking a chance on him and targeting a DT like Armstead or Goldman in the first round?

Goldman in the first? <shudders>
 
Goldman in the first? <shudders>

I still don't fully understand that reaction. Goldman isn't my top choice right now by any means, but I do think that he is generally worth a 1st round pick. I like his skill set a lot more than Carl Davis, and he doesn't have the potential character concerns.

With that said, I don't want a DT in the 1st. I'm all aboard the Hardison bandwagon, and I think that Laterrius Walton or Deon Simon are nice options for bigger DTs that should be available later on.
 
What about Josh Shaw in the 3rd? Tall, physical, and fluid. 26 bench reps and watching him in college tells me that the kid can play press man and do it well. He's also versatile but comes with questions surrounding that incident last summer.

I'm hoping for a double dip at CB, and Josh Shaw is one of my favorite options for the 2nd CB dip. I like Eric Rowe the best in that range, but Shaw is a close second.

My hope is for one of Marcus Peters / Byron Jones / Kevin Johnson plus one of Eric Rowe / Josh Shaw. Nick Marshall is an intriguing conversion, and I still am intrigued about the idea of moving Chris Conley (6'2" 213# with 34 3/4" arms and 4.35 speed and a 45" VJ) back to CB.
 
I still don't fully understand that reaction. Goldman isn't my top choice right now by any means, but I do think that he is generally worth a 1st round pick. I like his skill set a lot more than Carl Davis, and he doesn't have the potential character concerns.

With that said, I don't want a DT in the 1st. I'm all aboard the Hardison bandwagon, and I think that Laterrius Walton or Deon Simon are nice options for bigger DTs that should be available later on.

He's a two down run stopper who can't stand up to double teams. I don't think that warrants a first round pick. I prefer Carl Davis as the better all-round prospect.
 
He's a two down run stopper who can't stand up to double teams. I don't think that warrants a first round pick. I prefer Carl Davis as the better all-round prospect.

Again, we disagree. I agree that a 2-down run stopper who can't stand up to double teams doesn't warrant a 1st round pick, but I see Goldman as much more - both able to stand up to double teams, and more explosive. Davis is much more inconsistent to my eye.

Given how much we agree on, it's always interesting to me when we do disagree to try and figure out why.

Here's another clip of Goldman on Draft Breakdown:

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/eddie-goldman-vs-florida-2014/

Seems to be holding his own against double teams most of the time. Pushes the pocket a fair amount.

I'm not aiming for Goldman at 32, but it wouldn't crush me if he were the pick.
 
Last edited:
With the Fletcher and McCain signing, I am convinced that WE WILL draft 2 CBs this draft...both being above 5'11
 


Patriots Kraft ‘Involved’ In Decision Making?  Zolak Says That’s Not the Case
MORSE: Final First Round Patriots Mock Draft
Slow Starts: Stark Contrast as Patriots Ponder Which Top QB To Draft
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/24: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/23: News and Notes
MORSE: Final 7 Round Patriots Mock Draft, Matthew Slater News
Bruschi’s Proudest Moment: Former LB Speaks to MusketFire’s Marshall in Recent Interview
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/22: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-21, Kraft-Belichick, A.J. Brown Trade?
MORSE: Patriots Draft Needs and Draft Related Info
Back
Top