Sign the Beast XLV: Pats targeting WR Stevie Johnson? [3/17 update: signs w/ Chargers]

I don't know what SJ or BB are thinking, but I suspect BB has enough to do trying to improve his team that he doesn't waste much time doing anything else. There is reason to think SJ could contribute to the Patriots. Curran had this to say:

"He is only 28-years-old, 6'2" a little under 200 pounds, absolutely electric in getting off the line of scrimmage and making people miss," explained Curran. "What happened last year at San Francisco you wonder? That's a horrible passing game.

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http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/curran-patriots-should-find-way-sign-stevie-johnson

I'd love to sign him because it allows us to not have to rely on Dobson or Boyce for anything. If they break out fine but most likely they do nothing and the team will be just fine.

But of course every guy I hope they sign with the exception of Chandler visits and then signs somewhere else so eh

I've been saying this since mid-season, we won the SB in spite of our outside receivers not because of them.

Jules is an inside receiver who can play outside. LaFell is a complementary outside receiver. Because of the (lack of) development of the 3 second year guys we had to make do.

Whether it's Stevie, a draft pick, or Dobson develops, we badly need an outside guy at least as good as LaFell. We had a lot of times last year that DCs could single LaFell and squeeze the middle and shut us down. Thankfully, 12, 87, 11 and Josh are so good we could scheme and execute around it enough. But we REALLY need a league average (or better) outside receiver to balance it out.

BelichickFan said:

I've been saying this since mid-season, we won the SB in spite of our outside receivers not because of them.

Jules is an inside receiver who can play outside. LaFell is a complementary outside receiver. Because of the (lack of) development of the 3 second year guys we had to make do.

Whether it's Stevie, a draft pick, or Dobson develops, we badly need an outside guy at least as good as LaFell. We had a lot of times last year that DCs could single LaFell and squeeze the middle and shut us down. Thankfully, 12, 87, 11 and Josh are so good we could scheme and execute around it enough. But we REALLY need a league average (or better) outside receiver to balance it out.

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I very much disagree with that. Edelman is a very good outside receiver. He gets seperation faster than maybe anyone in the NFL. So valuable when the line isn't giving Brady much time. I don't know why Edelman hasn't shed that slot label yet.

Mack Herron said:

I don't know what SJ or BB are thinking, but I suspect BB has enough to do trying to improve his team that he doesn't waste much time doing anything else. There is reason to think SJ could contribute to the Patriots. Curran had this to say:

http://www.csnne.com/blog/patriots-talk/curran-patriots-should-find-way-sign-stevie-johnson

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That Boston bombing comment was extremely insensitive but I kinda want him on the team. Sounds like he can still play. That description you have there describes Edelman to a tee.

Froob said:

I very much disagree with that. Edelman is a very good outside receiver. He gets seperation faster than maybe anyone in the NFL. So valuable when the line isn't giving Brady much time. I don't know why Edelman hasn't shed that slot label yet.

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I agree with you, Edelman is a great outside receiver. I don't think he can do everything a tall prototype can, but he finds a way to get the job done. Specifically, his height does limit him from doing the things you want from all-time greats (Irvin, Moss, Megatron etc), like immense confidence in throwing up jump balls or back shoulder throws. You're right that he is definitely not a slot receiver.

BelichickFan said:

I've been saying this since mid-season, we won the SB in spite of our outside receivers not because of them.

Jules is an inside receiver who can play outside. LaFell is a complementary outside receiver. Because of the (lack of) development of the 3 second year guys we had to make do.

Whether it's Stevie, a draft pick, or Dobson develops, we badly need an outside guy at least as good as LaFell. We had a lot of times last year that DCs could single LaFell and squeeze the middle and shut us down. Thankfully, 12, 87, 11 and Josh are so good we could scheme and execute around it enough. But we REALLY need a league average (or better) outside receiver to balance it out.

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Much truth here EXCEPT LaFell is definitely not a weakness or a "complementary" outside receiver. He is a very good player. His knock coming in was his hands, and he caught almost everything from Brady. He is exactly what they wanted Lloyd and Ochocinco to be. Though not a burner, he is capable of big plays and is a great route runner with a big, physical frame. I agree that depth is a huge issue because a LaFell injury would have been devastating last year. I noticed in Wikipedia that Stevie Johnson is 6'2" 207, while LaFell is 6'2" 210. Never realized Johnson was that big. This would be a good signing for depth and potentially some packages with both LaFell and Johnson on the field together.

Patriots dodged a bullet last year with LaFell and Gronkowsi staying healthy. I mean, we know there is a big drop off in production if you lose high-caliber players, but there were no backups. Hooman or Wright at TE woukd cause them to change their scheme entirely, while moving Edelman to WR1 would have the same effect. Scott Chandler and maybe Stevie Johnson will at the least provide backup players that are similar in their physical makeup and skills (not that Chandler is in Gronk's world, but he is 6'7" and can both block and catch.)

BelichickFan said:

I've been saying this since mid-season, we won the SB in spite of our outside receivers not because of them.

Jules is an inside receiver who can play outside. LaFell is a complementary outside receiver. Because of the (lack of) development of the 3 second year guys we had to make do.

Whether it's Stevie, a draft pick, or Dobson develops, we badly need an outside guy at least as good as LaFell. We had a lot of times last year that DCs could single LaFell and squeeze the middle and shut us down. Thankfully, 12, 87, 11 and Josh are so good we could scheme and execute around it enough. But we REALLY need a league average (or better) outside receiver to balance it out.

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Froob said:

I very much disagree with that. Edelman is a very good outside receiver. He gets seperation faster than maybe anyone in the NFL. So valuable when the line isn't giving Brady much time. I don't know why Edelman hasn't shed that slot label yet.

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I can't speak for @BelichickFan, but I am assuming that he/she means that Edelman is much better in the short to intermediate areas of the field, and is best used on the quicker timing routes. The fact remains that he's just not a true outside threat, as much as he offers in other areas.

It isn't anything in terms of a knock on Edelman or his skill set, but more of a fact that we need a better true outside receiver who can help to demand some safety coverage, while opening up some space underneath. We definitely need (scratch that--"could use") an upgrade in that specific role, although it says a lot for Belichick, Brady, and McDaniels that they are able to see as much success as they do without one.

He would be the deep threat we are looking for. I would be pretty comfortable with our WR corp being Lafell/Edelman/Johnson/Amendola and our TE's being Gronk/chandler/wright. we could use another big WR who can play outside

would be a lot of targets for brady to spread it around to.

I've always liked Stevie Johnson. He and Lance Moore were 2 guys I always looked at and thought they could be awesome for the Patriots. This signing would make me very happy, and a big thank you to the 49ers for destroying his value.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the Bills or Jets enter the picture to keep him away from us.

Honestly you can't let him leave without signing and if you do then Crabtree has to be on a plane to New England.
That being said it puzzles me that Percy chose Buff, Bush chose San Fran, Knighton chose Washington.
I mean unless it's a money thing its been a long time since players have turned down the Patriots to play elsewhere.
Hopefully Revis leaving us didn't cause some kind of ripple effect because a lot of guys look up to him and praise his business sense.
Thankfully Sheard cares about winning.
Let's hope Johnson sees the advantages in playing with the Goat QB and Coach over playing with his BFFS Gailey, Fitzpatrick.

ChrisR2223 said:

.
That being said it puzzles me that Percy chose Buff, Bush chose San Fran, Knighton chose Washington.

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Bush was said to have left NE without an offer so I'm not sure he "chose" SF over us. Mike Loyko tweeted there may have been some concern from the Patriots over a possible ankle situation.

ChrisR2223 said:

Honestly you can't let him leave without signing and if you do then Crabtree has to be on a plane to New England.
That being said it puzzles me that Percy chose Buff, Bush chose San Fran, Knighton chose Washington.
I mean unless it's a money thing its been a long time since players have turned down the Patriots to play elsewhere.
Hopefully Revis leaving us didn't cause some kind of ripple effect because a lot of guys look up to him and praise his business sense.
Thankfully Sheard cares about winning.
Let's hope Johnson sees the advantages in playing with the Goat QB and Coach over playing with his BFFS Gailey, Fitzpatrick.

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The Pats didn't offer contracts to Bush and Knighton as far as I know. I think Buffalo put the full court press on Harvin, and he's the one I can see second guessing his decision. He could have played for the Pats and TFB and BB and built up his value.

ChrisR2223 said:

Honestly you can't let him leave without signing and if you do then Crabtree has to be on a plane to New England.
That being said it puzzles me that Percy chose Buff, Bush chose San Fran, Knighton chose Washington.
I mean unless it's a money thing its been a long time since players have turned down the Patriots to play elsewhere.
Hopefully Revis leaving us didn't cause some kind of ripple effect because a lot of guys look up to him and praise his business sense.
Thankfully Sheard cares about winning.
Let's hope Johnson sees the advantages in playing with the Goat QB and Coach over playing with his BFFS Gailey, Fitzpatrick.

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John Abraham comes to mind. Players turn down New England all the time.

With Harvin, he left Buffalo for NE looking for a prove it deal at big money ($6 is big money on that type of a deal). My guess, and I think it's an educated guess, is that Ryan couldn't stand to see him in NE, so he upped the offer to get him back in Buffalo ASAP.

Knighton was interviewing with, according to reports, Seattle, Baltimore and New England. That he wound up in Washington for that little money is very telling.

The Gr8est said:

The Pats didn't offer contracts to Bush and Knighton as far as I know. I think Buffalo put the full court press on Harvin, and he's the one I can see second guessing his decision. He could have played for the Pats and TFB and BB and built up his value.

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Next year when he hits free agency again, he will look back at his year with Matt Cassel, Rex Ryan and a run-first offense, and kick himself knowing what could have been.

I just watched a Stevie Johnson highlight video the move he put on Jason Mccourty a few years ago wow.
Please get him signed.

Stevie Johnson will be like Deion was for us.

Ross12 said:

Next year when he hits free agency again, he will look back at his year with Matt Cassel, Rex Ryan and a run-first offense, and kick himself knowing what could have been.

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There's an old saying (that I just made up), that if you want an executive position don't show up to the interview wearing clown shoes.

To increase his demand Harvin decided that working under a clown was a good idea.

BelichickFan said:

I've been saying this since mid-season, we won the SB in spite of our outside receivers not because of them.

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I think you might be overstating this point. LaFell is a very good receiver and a viable #1 in this offense. NE could certainly use better depth behind him.

BelichickFan said:

We had a lot of times last year that DCs could single LaFell and squeeze the middle and shut us down.

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I'm not recalling this as well as you are. The GB game? Or SD maybe? In both instances, OL was a much bigger problem than WRs (I'd add game plan to the GB pile as well). The Buffalo game was meaningless and the Jet game felt more like a scrimmage where Bill intentionally puts the team in odd situation. Even if I count that, the OL and Edelman being down were way higher than outside WR on the list of reasons why NE struggled.

If there are so many times teams could easily shut NE down due to lack of respect outside, why am I having such a hard time coming up with any? I will grant you that apparently the Jets were saying behind closed doors that they didn't respect NE's WRs.

The thing is, NE's system is always going to build from the inside out. Even when they go outside, it is generally a match up dictated by route combinations inside the numbers. As long as they have elite production there, room will be created outside. Not that I'd complain if the position was upgraded, mind you! Just that, for the most part, fans overestimate how important those guys are.