Sign the Beast XLIII -- Insider Buzz: Dolphins Expected to Release WR Mike Wallace

bostonia3333 said:

Revis will shut down Wallace with his eyes closed. If Wallace can run routes inside, you can burn Revis a bit, but the dude hates contact

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Wallace burns Revis a lot - one of the few who can. I still don't want him, and we can't afford him, but Revis can't eliminate Wallace like he does some others.

VectorPrime said:

The Pats should really really jump on this. I'm sure he'll come cheap since no one was willing to trade for him and hes now damaged goods.

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You're talking about the #1 free agent on the market from 2 years ago, that brought in an 11m dollar AAV who has since averaged the following statistics in those two (under performing) years? :

70 catches, 900 yards, 8 TDs

In your opinion, that is somehow now "damaged goods?"

To me, that's some clear cut 7m dollar AAV stuff right there, with many/most teams more than happy to make him their WR1 or WR2. The problem is---he IS a bit of a headcase, and a locker room cancer, who has made many negative comments/actions in the media in both cities that he's played in.

supafly said:

I'm still not convinced that a guy like Belichick would really consider that, even if he's pointed out some of his strengths in the past, but there's only one person who would really know the answer to that.

I doubt that Wallace would be paid enough here, or that he'd fit in and be happy with his role. I think someone will be happy to pay him 7m dollars a year, which is still down from his prior 11+, but likely much too expensive for us even if we wanted him.

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And I'm thinking more of an Amendola like contract for him. It's all just idle speculation for now. Bill usually only calls me and picks my mind in the early mornings (the bastard) anyway.

supafly said:

You're talking about the #1 free agent on the market from 2 years ago, that brought in an 11m dollar AAV who has since averaged the following statistics in those two (under performing) years? :

70 catches, 900 yards, 8 TDs

In your opinion, that is somehow now "damaged goods?"

To me, that's some clear cut 7m dollar AAV stuff right there, with many/most teams more than happy to make him their WR1 or WR2.

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Just for giggles, this would be the likely starting 5 WRs:

Edelman
LaFell
Amendola
Wallace
Gibson/Dobson/Dorsey

Or, add power and size to the empty backfield while keeping the deep speed:

Gronk
Chandler
Edelman
Wallace
Amedola/LaFell


Toss in Reggie Bush in place of Chandler, and you've got a lot of fun playing mix'n match.

Danger Zone said:

And I'm thinking more of an Amendola like contract for him. It's all just idle speculation for now. Bill usually only calls me and picks my mind in the early mornings (the bastard) anyway.

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See, I've got him on 24 hr speed dial.

Linda picks up the phone, sighs, and just hands it off.

bostonia3333 said:

Revis will shut down Wallace with his eyes closed. If Wallace can run routes inside, you can burn Revis a bit, but the dude hates contact

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Did he get a td on Revis this year. But anyway wouldn't that be the point if Revis is on Wallace than Edelman is getting CB2 if teams put CB2 on Wallace I'm sure they will have to have a safety deep to prevent the pass thus opening up the middle of the field.

supafly said:

Linda picks up the phone, sighs, and just hands it off.

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Oh, I can't get her off the phone myself...

Deus Irae said:

Just for giggles, this would be the likely starting 5 WRs:

Edelman
LaFell
Amendola
Wallace
Gibson/Dobson/Dorsey

Or, add power and size to the empty backfield while keeping the deep speed:

Gronk
Chandler
Edelman
Wallace
Amedola/LaFell


Toss in Reggie Bush in place of Chandler, and you've got a lot of fun playing mix'n match.

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I agree that it would undoubtedly set up many great matchups. In the past, you've been a little higher on Wallace than I have, but it's hard to debate his production and versatility.

My concerns are the asking price, and whether or not Belichick sees a locker room fit--although those are generally the same two concerns that we'd have with any player. I'm guessing that another team would be willing to throw a nicer contract at him though.

supafly said:

We should be wishing that Miami had kept overpriced/underperforming players like Hartline, Finnegan, and Wallace.

They've added the #1 free agent in Suh, brought in one of the top young TEs in free agency with Jordan Cameron, and traded for one of the most promising young wideouts in the game with Kenny Stills (63 catches and close to 1000 yds last year in only his 2nd season).

Are those overpriced role players like Hartline, Ellerbe, etc greally oing to matter in the bigger picture? Who knows, but they were a team with a losing record last season, so shaking things up can't exactly hurt, can it?

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I feel you are overrating their moves. They dumped half their roster for Suh. People will argue Stills and Cameron are as overrated as some of the players they unloaded.

Rob0729 said:

I feel you are overrating their moves. They dumped half their roster for Suh. People will argue Stills and Cameron are as overrated as some of the players they unloaded.

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I had a feeling that you may see it that way

Out of curiosity, with the obvious understanding that the games are not won/lost in the month of March, do you believe that ANY other AFC team has made improvements?

I see you've now pooh-poohed the moves of Indy, Miami, Buffalo, the NYJ, and are always generally down on Denver. That isn't even bringing Baltimore into the equation, as you were of the most outspoken people 2 yrs ago about their "demise." Do you feel that there is any realistic competition for the N.England Patriots out there?

supafly said:

I agree that it would undoubtedly set up many great matchups. In the past, you've been a little higher on Wallace than I have, but it's hard to debate his production and versatility.

My concerns are the asking price, and whether or not Belichick sees a locker room fit--although those are generally the same two concerns that we'd have with any player. I'm guessing that another team would be willing to throw a nicer contract at him though.

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Yeah, I doubt it will happen. I just laid out the options for the giggles. That would be a very flexible offense, and it would basically allow the Patriots to ignore the offense in the draft (other than IOL), unless a gift from heaven fell into their lap.

Rob0729 said:

People will argue Stills and Cameron are as overrated as some of the players they unloaded.

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Who in their right mind is going to argue about the production of a 2nd year player who caught 63 balls and almost 1000 yards on a cheap rookie contract? That doesn't make any sense to me. How would that be "over rated" to you?

It's excellent value, especially if they are able to dump a guy like Wallace with 12/13 million dollar cap hits and replace most of the production with 7-8% of the cost.

supafly said:

Who in their right mind is going to argue about the production of a 2nd year player who caught 63 balls and almost 1000 yards on a cheap rookie contract? That doesn't make any sense to me. How would that be "over rated" to you?

It's excellent value.

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Just remember the mantra:

Every player sucks, unless they're on the Patriots. If they're on the Patriots, they're awesome, even if they suck.

Deus Irae said:

Just remember the mantra:

Every player sucks, unless they're on the Patriots. If they're on the Patriots, they're awesome, even if they suck.

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I don't mind having an optimistic viewpoint on a fansite message board. After all, that's why we're all here.

That said, I don't care for the 2 extreme sides. I try to be hopeful, yet realistic.

supafly said:

I had a feeling that you may see it that way

Out of curiosity, with the obvious understanding that the games are not won/lost in the month of March, do you believe that ANY other AFC team has made improvements?

I see you've now pooh-poohed the moves of Indy, Miami, Buffalo, the NYJ, and are always generally down on Denver. That isn't even bringing Baltimore into the equation, as you were of the most outspoken people 2 yrs ago about their "demise." Do you feel that there is any realistic competition for the N.England Patriots out there?

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The Jets have improved the most, I think. Revis will do that for ya! I'm glad they have a new coaching staff, though, which usually takes a while to truly settle in.

The bills? I liked Alonso a lot. Shady's good, but I like Spiller, too. And Shady is way but overpaid. They took some high-risk moves, but it could pay off, and they didn't mortgage their future like the Jets did. I think Chandler is a big loss, but Harvin could pay off. Cassel is serviceable. So they got better.

Miami is the wild card. Suh is a beast - I put him up there with Campbell. Truly elite. But that's a lot of guaranteed $$$$, they lost Odrick and Starks, Ellerbe, Gibson, Hartline...and now, apparently Wallace. Not a big Wallace fan, but he's better than Stills. Cameron, I'm not sure. Don't know how much "better" the Phins will be, honestly.

If Revis or Suh declines/gets hurt, those two franchise carry the suck forward for a long time.

AFC East really looks good though, so yeah, I think all three are improved on paper, here in March.

My money stays on the Pats. Furthermore, because of the moves they're making and the way they're doing them, the Pats look to be in good cap shape going forward, next year, the year after, etc.

supafly said:

Who in their right mind is going to argue about the production of a 2nd year player who caught 63 balls and almost 1000 yards on a cheap rookie contract? That doesn't make any sense to me. How would that be "over rated" to you?

It's excellent value, especially if they are able to dump a guy like Wallace with 12/13 million dollar cap hits and replace most of the production with 7-8% of the cost.

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Because Stills was invisible a lot of games he faced and he had six games in the NFC South. And he had Drew Bree's throwing to him.

He is a good receiver, but I think with Tannehill his ceiling may be average to above average.

And if the Saints thought he was that good, they would have kept him. He does nothing to help their cap situation by trading him. If they thought he was remotely as good as you, they would have kept him.

BTW, here is Walter Football's analysis of the trade from the Dolphins' standpoint (the only site I know of who grades each trade as it happens, but I open to view opposing views if you know of them):

I'm actually a fan of the Saints acquiring a third-round selection for Kenny Stills, who is just a one-dimensional deep threat. He wasn't even on the field that much before Brandin Cooks suffered an injury in the middle of the season, so it's not a big loss.

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I'm not as crazy about it for the Dolphins. They do need a speed receiver with Mike Wallace constantly quitting on the team, but they may have been able to obtain a better player than Stills with their third-round selection. Unloading Ellerbe's contract is nice - hilarious that Miami was willing to give up a third to do that - so I don't hate this move, but New Orleans is the clear winner in this swap.

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http://walterfootball.com/freeagentsigninggrades.php

well, wallace is now a viking for just a 5th rounder (plus miami gives up a 7th)

supafly said:

I had a feeling that you may see it that way

Out of curiosity, with the obvious understanding that the games are not won/lost in the month of March, do you believe that ANY other AFC team has made improvements?

I see you've now pooh-poohed the moves of Indy, Miami, Buffalo, the NYJ, and are always generally down on Denver. That isn't even bringing Baltimore into the equation, as you were of the most outspoken people 2 yrs ago about their "demise." Do you feel that there is any realistic competition for the N.England Patriots out there?

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I think that plenty of teams have made improvements including in this division. I just think people year in and year out overrate offseason moves. I just don't do that.

You look at how I talk about the Patriots additions and I am not going overboard either. You don't hear me talking about Sheard being the most underrated move in the offseason or whatever. I don't think Chandler is going to be a Aaron Hernandez type of replacement. I think they are nice additions, but I don't know if they are earth shattering additions. In fact, I still think the Pats are significantly worse right now than they were last year. We will see how they end up. Still good enough to be the favorite in the AFC, but gotten much closer to the pack.

I think Indy improved, but just not as much as you do. I think their moves were not earth shattering as people state. If their additions don't hit the age wall, they some of them could be very good additions. People look at the names and not the age.

I think the Jets improved a lot. I just don't get their strategy because they look to be spending a lot of money to be an 8-8 or 9-7 team and many of their bigger moves (Revis, Harris, and Cromartie) are likely to be well past their prime by the time they get the QB and other positions to make a real run. I think they will be significantly better in 2015. I just don't know if they are thinking long term which a team like them should.

I think the Bills have improved themselves too. I think the Harvin deal was good because it is an one year prove it deal (although a decent chunk of change if it isn't tied to incentives).. I don't like the McCoy trade because I think he is really expensive, has a lot of wear on his tires for his age, and he is a RB.

You keep on misquote me on Baltimore. I said that Ozzie Newsome did his best to improve their defense, but the defense wouldn't be enough to make them a legitimate contender in the AFC (which you believed) and they missed the playoffs that next season (in large part because their defense came off the wheels down the stretch). I was far more right than you give me credit for and I correctly predicted they would miss the playoffs. And I was right about a lot of their additions being overrated. Some were great like Dumerville while others were not like Matt Elam (who you loved if I remember correctly) or Marcus Spears.

And other than Sanders I was right about Denver. Ware was the guy who the Cowboys dumped. He started out strong and faded over time. TJ Ward was basically a slightly better Pat Chung (strong against the run, got burnt in coverage). Talib was great for the most part in the regular season and turtled when it counted in the playoffs.

You just don't give me enough credit for being right on things and cherry pick the things I am "wrong" about.

Dolphins just got for Mike Wallace what the Buccaneers got for Jonathan Casillas.

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https://twitter.com/NEPD_Loyko/status/576520112662028288

Rob0729 said:

https://twitter.com/NEPD_Loyko/status/576520112662028288

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Traded for a ham sandwich and a pair of flip flops. So much for offseason Free Agency wins.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's nice to appraise signings but they're just potential until proven otherwise. The success of an acquisition is better judged at the end of every season and the player's contract. Hell, LaFell was one of, if not the signing of 2014.