The Irreplaceable Revis

as it is to see you once again, Guns. Never a dull moment in this AFC East border war that's for sure.

I think the biggest logic pushing the pats decision when it came to Revise is that there are no guarantees........look at the Broncos last year.....they supposedly addressed all of their issues.....outspent the pats on secondary, and added other players to boot, and one single factor had the wheels fly off the bus

part of it is that given the makeup of the pats roster, and the appreciating the possibility that brady could run into physical issues, makes it all that much more important to balance things out. having to sign revis would have meant too much restriction on improving on the rest of the teams weaknesses.

LightSkinSmurf said:

I am on record saying I still give the patriots a chance to win another one without revis next year. I just think we will need more breaks than before because I don't think we will be as good, that's all.

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Fair - but we still have plenty of months between now & the season to make those breaks. Good drafting heals a lot of things.

LightSkinSmurf said:

A huge vital piece to the puzzle. He didn't "create" a winner but he was a big part in the patriots finally being able to close the deal and win another SB after 10 years of getting close and failing. I don't think anybody here is doubting that we will once again be in the mix to go to the SB next year and probably have another 12-4 season. With revis gone tho there is no denying that our chances at a repeat just took a huge hit. With brady gronk and belichick I still give us a shot, but I'm nowhere near as confident as of right now. Before I thought we were the clear cut best in the AFC. Now I think we will just be one of the good teams that has a chance. We will see how it plays out.

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Vital is not a correct word, as has been proven many times.
You are saying Revis is the difference between one play going our way in 2014 and one play not going our way in 2007 or 2011? Really?
I agree losing Revis hurts our chances, as opposed to the status quo (having him at a 7mill cap hit last year) but signing him to what it would have taken would have hurt our chances, very likely more.
Revis has lost more games than he has won in all non-Patriot years, so the idea that you can't win without him is naive. Before last year everyone that won didnt have him and whoever had him didn't win.
As I said, Revis won because he was a Patriot more than the Patriots won because of Revis.

LightSkinSmurf said:

I am on record saying I still give the patriots a chance to win another one without revis next year. I just think we will need more breaks than before because I don't think we will be as good, that's all.

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We wouldn't be as good at the other 52 roster spots if we gave Revis that contract.
Its not a zero sum game.

The Pats have never won a title without a shut down corner. In 01,03-04 it was Law. Last year it was Revis. It's not so much that they lost Revis is that they lost a shut down corner and he cannot be replaced.

Is he irreplaceable to this team going 12-4 and getting to the AFC Championship? No. We can still do that. The problem is he is the difference between bowing out in the conference championship and winning the Lombardi.

IllegalContact said:

add 2006 if Branch doesn't go postal

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Coincidently, also tampered with by the Jets.

Patriots1364life said:

Its funny how everyone thinks now that this revis guy is just another player lol. He along with browner and dmac brung some toughness to this secondary. I already have my pats championship gear and will cherish it cause it could have been our last run with tom terrific.

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You seem to not understand the difference between a player and a team and what it takes to win.
No one says Revis is a jag. The idea that the Patriots cannot win without him is ridiculous, while the idea that he can't win without the Patriots has evidence to back it up.

AndyJohnson said:

Vital is not a correct word, as has been proven many times.
You are saying Revis is the difference between one play going our way in 2014 and one play not going our way in 2007 or 2011? Really?
I agree losing Revis hurts our chances, as opposed to the status quo (having him at a 7mill cap hit last year) but signing him to what it would have taken would have hurt our chances, very likely more.
Revis has lost more games than he has won in all non-Patriot years, so the idea that you can't win without him is naive. Before last year everyone that won didnt have him and whoever had him didn't win.
As I said, Revis won because he was a Patriot more than the Patriots won because of Revis.

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I think vital is the correct word. I'm saying revis was the difference between coming close and losing and finally getting over the hump. Yes, I am saying that. He is that big of a difference maker. He wasn't the only reason for us winning a SB, obviously, but its not a coincidence that the second we actually get a good defense we win the SB. To think otherwise would be naive. I also don't think for even a split second that keeping revis would have hurt as more. Only if he gets hurt or seriously declined would I buy that story. Also "Revis has lost more games than he has won in all non patriot years". Do I really have to explain why that statement is ridiculous?

BradyToAmendola said:

Is he irreplaceable to this team going 12-4 and getting to the AFC Championship? No. We can still do that. The problem is he is the difference between bowing out in the conference championship and winning the Lombardi.

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Aren't we 5-3 in AFCCG without Revis?

ensoul said:

The Pats have never won a title without a shut down corner. In 01,03-04 it was Law. Last year it was Revis. It's not so much that they lost Revis is that they lost a shut down corner and he cannot be replaced.

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This is exactly the kind of thing I have been trying to dispute. We've been in 6 SBs under Belichick, and the outcome of all six was narrow. To say one team had something inherently different that another team didn't and that's the reason they won/lost is not appropriate.

Either our guys made more plays than their guys over 60 minutes, or they didn't. Having a shutdown corner was not the difference in SB42, 46, or 49. We had one in 42, and he was busy being an overpaid spectator when a defender caught a ball off his helmet and changed the game. We didn't have anybody who could cover in 46, and we only lost because Wes Welker couldn't track Brady's ball. We had one in 49, and he was about to be on the field as we gave up a game-losing 80 yard drive in the final two minutes until his younger teammate saved the day.

Too much is being read into whether one play went one way or another.

LightSkinSmurf said:

I think vital is the correct word. I'm saying revis was the difference between coming close and losing and finally getting over the hump. Yes, I am saying that. He is that big of a difference maker. He wasn't the only reason for us winning a SB, obviously, but its not a coincidence that the second we actually get a good defense we win the SB. To think otherwise would be naive. I also don't think for even a split second that keeping revis would have hurt as more. Only if he gets hurt or seriously declined would I buy that story. Also "Revis has lost more games than he has won in all non patriot years". Do I really have to explain why that statement is ridiculous?

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We will improve by whatever we spend the 16 million on that would have went to Revis.

Why is that statement ridiculous? We are talking about the value Revis brings in terms of winning. People are talking about him like he is the posterboy for winning.
Spending money other ways than chucking 12% of your cap at a corner has proven to be a better idea.
Yes, please explain how the success of teams with Revis on them is irrelevant and ridiculous to the discussion.
If we gave Revis this contract last year, we probably would not have won the SB.

AndyJohnson said:

Aren't we 5-3 in AFCCG without Revis?

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Well from 01-04 we had an awesome defense. I'm more talking specifically about our inability to rebuild the D into an elite group post 01-04. I'm worried our D is going to go back to the way they've been from 2009-2013. Where they have 0 Super Bowls, and are 1-2 in the AFC Championship.

Obviously winning the Super Bowl is hard, and I'm not trying to act spoiled with that previous statement. But it's not a coincidence that the one offseason where we spend a ton of money and sign Revis and Browner, we win the SB. I have a right to be angry about us not stepping up and paying Revis IMO.

You're not worried about the defense going back to how it was from 2009-2013? The Brady clock is ticking. I would've been okay with signing Revis even if it meant having to let Hightower or Collins go after 2016. I think we should've been all in for 2015 and 2016. To try to bring 1 more Lombardi home.

ensoul said:

The Pats have never won a title without a shut down corner. In 01,03-04 it was Law. Last year it was Revis. It's not so much that they lost Revis is that they lost a shut down corner and he cannot be replaced.

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The only shutdown cornerback pats had in 2004 was a shutdown-for-the-season Ty Law.
Would a shutdown cornerback have helped Pats to keep Giants under 17 points that they scored in 2007?

AndyJohnson said:

We will improve by whatever we spend the 16 million on that would have went to Revis.

Why is that statement ridiculous? We are talking about the value Revis brings in terms of winning. People are talking about him like he is the posterboy for winning.
Spending money other ways than chucking 12% of your cap at a corner has proven to be a better idea.
Yes, please explain how the success of teams with Revis on them is irrelevant and ridiculous to the discussion.
If we gave Revis this contract last year, we probably would not have won the SB.

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That is not the statement I called ridiculous.... No we are talking about him like he makes our defense THAT much better, and he does. I don't see how you can possibly argue otherwise. With revis we had a good solid defense. Without him you are going back to not being able to get a key stop to save your life.

The statement I called ridiculous was the one with you saying revis has lost more games before he came to the patriots. Like football isn't the ultimate team sport. No cornerback, no matter how good, is gonna be able to carry a team and win a SB. Not even a QB can do that without help. So saying revis has lost x amount of games before he became a patriot, as if that somehow proves he isn't that good *or as if that proves anything at all* is insane, to say the least.

Also, it sounds like you are trying to make this a revis vs the patriots kind of thing. That is not where I am going with this.

BradyToAmendola said:

Well from 01-04 we had an awesome defense. I'm more talking specifically about our inability to rebuild the D into an elite group post 01-04. I'm worried our D is going to go back to the way they've been from 2009-2013. Where they have 0 Super Bowls, and are 1-3 in the AFC Championship.

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What do SB36, 38, 42, 46 & 49 have in common? They all saw the opposing team drive right down the field on the Patriots in the final minutes. Brady saved us in 36 & 38, we lost 42 & 46, and Butler saved us in 49. If McNabb hadn't been vomiting on himself, who knows, maybe it would've happened there, too.

Again, it is too simplistic to try and define the early part of the dynasty so cleanly. Again, we're two plays away from being just as successful in 07-present as we were in 01-04.

FibSeq13478 said:

The only shutdown cornerback pats had in 2004 was a shutdown-for-the-season Ty Law.
Would a shutdown cornerback have helped Pats to keep Giants under 17 points that they scored?

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Perhaps. A shutdown corner also may have been able to keep the Giants under the 30:27 of possession they had, allowing the offense more time with the ball.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/darrelle-revis-turned-contract-0-174007033.html

LightSkinSmurf said:

With revis gone tho there is no denying that our chances at a repeat just took a huge hit.

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Yeah, in early March, five weeks after winning the Super Bowl. A thousand things can (and will) happen between now and Sept. 10, some of which might more than compensate elsewhere defensively for Revis's absence. BB will have a good plan, we just don't what it is yet and might not know 'til well into the next regular season.