Keep Revis and pay the $20M

flasox27 said:

I don't disagree with your statements but I don't think we get to the point where your factors matter without having Revis or an equivalent as the shutdown cornerback. Consider the fact that in the two supebowls we lost, a cornerback like Ty Law or Revis instead of the mediocre cornerbacks we had out there would have made the difference.

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You can't really make that claim with supreme confidence. In those games they also scored 14 and 17 points respectfully.

You could easily make the argument that LaFell and Gronk would have made the difference as they help offenses score more points.

robertweathers said:

What was their word? Did the promise him something?

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The second year was only added on to eliminate the tag and to spread the cap into 2015.

NY Daily News is reporting Revis will re-sign with Pats if the offer is in the same range of other offers made to him.

Jim Colclough fan said:

NY Daily News is reporting Revis will re-sign with Pats if the offer is in the same range of other offers made to him.

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Did anyone think he was going to take less or the same offer to go to the Jets?

Oswlek said:

The second year was only added on to eliminate the tag and to spread the cap into 2015.

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Yes but I think there is more to it and a subtlety here in how the deal was structured with the the 2015 market in mind.

Back in March of '14 when Revis and NEP got to talking, the Pats approached him with a one year deal (my assumption). Revis said I want to play for you but I need assurances that you won't tag me that go beyond a handshake. The Pats added the 2nd year which - if Revis is released ensure that the Pats can't tag him but also ensures that IF the Pats decided to keep him and not seek a long term deal they would pay him a sum that would be greater than the tag $ for CBs ($12.9m) but also approx to what Revis would see as a reasonable signing bonus/guaranteed $ in 2015.

So the 2nd year it is a placeholder per se and was also a mechanism to lessen the 2014 cap hit (which helped them bring in mid-year reinforcements).

kennyb said:

Can they pay 12m and then trade him for a bunch of picks?

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The trade would need to be executed before March 31. After that that the bonus is all ours. It could be done. Perhaps there would be a team that would give us draft choices for a 1-year rental of Revis, or perhaps the patriots would allow him to work out a deal with another team.

However, we would need to replace the $20M of cap room (or a lot of it) in the meantime or be shut out of the free agent market.

Again, this is possible through several restructures. Miguel has posted the details several times.
Browner
Brady
Gronkowski
Browner
Arrington
Amendola
Mayo

The above restructures add up to almost $20M. Note that Mayo would likely need to be paid full compensation to do a restructure now. Also, new players could be signed to contracts that have low front ends. For example, Wilfork could be signed to 3-year contract with a $9M bonus and a $1M 2015 salary, rather than simply paying him $4M for 2015. Usually, we don't this. However, since $20M would be coming back, some of that would be kept for the future rather than used in 2015.


All the above restructures sound difficult. They are not. The only substantive discussions would be with Amendola and Mayo. The others are no-brainers for the players as well as the team.
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BOTTOM LINE
This could be done. However, this would take cooperation from Revis. The team could trade him as a 1-year deal, but he could threaten a sit out and show up in August. Besides, for the patriots to get maximum compensation, we would want him to go to a team where a long-term has been worked out. A team would more for this than for a 1-year deal.

FINALLY
If the team did pay the bonus and made a trade AFTER March 31, then the $12M would be patriot dead money, but Revis would be more valuable with an $8M cap hit.

IN CONCLUSION
I don't think that this will happen unless Revis is fully on board.

robertweathers said:

Yes but I think there is more to it and a subtlety here in how the deal was structured with the the 2015 market in mind.

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Both camps have publicly stated that the never expected year two to commence (NE directly through Jonathan and Revis via agent leak to PFT). All signs point toward it being funny money from the start.

Oswlek said:

Both camps have publicly stated that the never expected year two to commence (NE directly through Jonathan and Revis via agent leak to PFT). All signs point toward it being funny money from the start.

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Thats what I thought until I read Miguel's article and this. I think there has been a shift in that position by the Pats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463717/article/will-patriots-pay-darrelle-revis-20m-option

In other words, Pats really don't have to do a damn thing until the end of March. Once April 1 comes along they can pay Revis his $20m and as long as he is playing all-pro ball and the future cap hits aren't insane, they can keep kicking the money can down the road to the next cap year.

robertweathers said:

Thats what I thought until I read Miguel's article and this. I think there has been a shift in that position by the Pats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463717/article/will-patriots-pay-darrelle-revis-20m-option

In other words, Pats really don't have to do a damn thing until the end of March. Once April 1 comes along they can pay Revis his $20m and as long as he is playing all-pro ball and the future cap hits aren't insane, they can keep kicking the money can down the road to the next cap year.

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That helps the pats immensely.

robertweathers said:

Thats what I thought until I read Miguel's article and this. I think there has been a shift in that position by the Pats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463717/article/will-patriots-pay-darrelle-revis-20m-option

In other words, Pats really don't have to do a damn thing until the end of March. Once April 1 comes along they can pay Revis his $20m and as long as he is playing all-pro ball and the future cap hits aren't insane, they can keep kicking the money can down the road to the next cap year.

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They can only kick it down the road with Revis' permission, so they don't have as much control as you imply. I doubt there has been a shift, it reads more like reporter speculation to me. JMO, of course.

Brady2Moss said:

Miguel, one question I had was about the 5 million dollar cap hit that is on this years cap for Revis.

Is it irrelevant whether Revis is cut or if he is extended without being cut? Is there no way to make that part of his new contract?

Thanks for all you do

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From the piece:
"March 7, 2015 update - No matter what (Revis signs extension, option not picked up, Revis traded, Revis plays 2015 with $25 million cap number), the $5 million proration of Revis' 2014 $10 million signing bonus will be on the Patriots 2015 cap. Teams cannot further prorate existing signing bonus proration, It is a sunk cost of winning the Super Bowl. It was money well spent"

slash83 said:

That helps the pats immensely.

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It does as long as Revis doesn't hold the team's cap slot hostage by not showing up to camp. The question is...would he do that and not get paid $2om in 2015? If he did that, hes either dumb or has major stones and knows his market.

Oswlek said:

They can only kick it down the road with Revis' permission, so they don't have as much control as you imply.

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Yes but the Pats own his rights and have control over Revis but not cutting him loose while other teams have cash and cap space in March. That may explain why there are "reports" that the sides have not been talking turkey.

Oswlek said:

I doubt there has been a shift, it reads more like reporter speculation to me. JMO, of course.

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Maybe. He calls out Rappaport as saying that the Pats have not ruled out paying DR $20m. The question is do you believe Rappaport's reporting and if so, who is his source? He used to work for the Herald so he may still have credible sources....

Brady2Moss said:

Miguel, one question I had was about the 5 million dollar cap hit that is on this years cap for Revis.

Is it irrelevant whether Revis is cut or if he is extended without being cut? Is there no way to make that part of his new contract?

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The $5 million hits the cap in 2015, no matter what. However, you can structure any new or revised deal to move other cap hits out of 2015 and into future years if you want to. Juggle the cap on a new deal any way you want and then add the $5 million that's already there onto the 2015 number.

Say you did a 4 year $60 million deal with $32 million guaranteed as a signing bonus. The $32 million guaranteed would be cap hits of $8 million a year in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2017. But you could make Revis' salary $1 million for 2015, so the cap number would be $9 million plus the existing $5 million for a total hit of $14 million in 2015. The following three years would have bigger salary numbers, but the old $5 million would be off the books.

The key issues are real dollars, real years, and real guarantees. Once the Pats and Revis have agreed to those, the accountants can figure out how to structure the deal, add fake years on the end, or whatever to put the cap numbers in the years they want, etc.

robertweathers said:

Thats what I thought until I read Miguel's article and this. I think there has been a shift in that position by the Pats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463717/article/will-patriots-pay-darrelle-revis-20m-option

In other words, Pats really don't have to do a damn thing until the end of March. Once April 1 comes along they can pay Revis his $20m and as long as he is playing all-pro ball and the future cap hits aren't insane, they can keep kicking the money can down the road to the next cap year.

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I think the issue with the Revis decision is the fact that we have to be under the cap by March 10th. Unless we restructure a few players today or tomorrow or extend Revis, they will have to decline his option.

robertweathers said:

Thats what I thought until I read Miguel's article and this. I think there has been a shift in that position by the Pats.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000463717/article/will-patriots-pay-darrelle-revis-20m-option

In other words, Pats really don't have to do a damn thing until the end of March. Once April 1 comes along they can pay Revis his $20m and as long as he is playing all-pro ball and the future cap hits aren't insane, they can keep kicking the money can down the road to the next cap year.

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The Patriots do have to make room for the full $25 million under their 2015 cap which is no small task. But, it can be done.

I've been convinced this is what they are going to do since they decided not to franchise McCourty. The Pats have their dander up about the blatant tampering by the Jets, and they are not letting Revis head off to the Jets without one hell of a fight.

Bed Check Billy said:

I think the issue with the Revis decision is the fact that we have to be under the cap by March 10th. Unless we restructure a few players today or tomorrow or extend Revis, they will have to decline his option.

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Kenneth Sims said:

The Patriots do have to make room for the full $25 million under their 2015 cap which is no small task. But, it can be done.

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The team puts a tremendous amount of value on roster & cap flexibility. No question the team would rather extend DR and gain that cap space for moves that they want to make.

Bed Check Billy said:

I've been convinced this is what they are going to do since they decided not to franchise McCourty. The Pats have their dander up about the blatant tampering by the Jets, and they are not letting Revis head off to the Jets without one hell of a fight.

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If the league's current logic is to see what happens to Revis before doling out compensation, the Pats MAY be trying to argue with the league that it's position is BS and needs to modify how it is approaching the issue. Typically they issue picks in March so maybe?

flasox27 said:

I don't disagree with your statements but I don't think we get to the point where your factors matter without having Revis or an equivalent as the shutdown cornerback. Consider the fact that in the two supebowls we lost, a cornerback like Ty Law or Revis instead of the mediocre cornerbacks we had out there would have made the difference.

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Although I stipulate that I'm always wrong, in terms of what moves the pats will make, it's a matter of public record that the pats allowed more points in their winning SB 49 game than their two previous losing games.

However, BB got used to seeing that TFB can't just win every single game (and do it twice based on miracle catches._) He left his D on the field with the ball on the 1, and didn't tell them to let the runner in. The D had an opportunity and seized it.

But that confidence came from a season of seeing no-quit football. I doubt he thought his chances were good either way on that 2nd and 1 play. But he figured the D on the 1 yard line was a better bet than TFB driving say 80 yards in 30 seconds. Yes, Revis' play throughout the game was good - but it's the confidence and resilience the rest of the D displayed that won that game for us.

Now I will say I'm a Revis fan, and can lay some of that resilience at his doorstep - it was a D that always had a chance. But saying the difference in the games was Revis' presence strikes me as strange.

flasox27 said:

I don't disagree with your statements but I don't think we get to the point where your factors matter without having Revis or an equivalent as the shutdown cornerback. Consider the fact that in the two supebowls we lost, a cornerback like Ty Law or Revis instead of the mediocre cornerbacks we had out there would have made the difference.

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I will not argue against the statement that a superior CB is a major key to winning a SB.
Letting Ty Law walk was not one of BB's better decisions.

I don't see any easy way for the Pats to come up with $5 million in cap space between now and Tuesday to cover the $25 million cap number for Revis.

hwc said:

I don't see any easy way for the Pats to come up with $5 million in cap space between now and Tuesday to cover the $25 million cap number for Revis.

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Mayo...