Seriously...why is it taking so long?

Bella*chick said:

My dad thinks they release something quietly the week of Final Four, when no one at all is paying attention.

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That means freaking April.

VectorPrime said:

That means freaking April.

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Yeah. But as the weeks drag on I find it so difficult to care anymore. Is anyone still waiting with bated breath on this thing? I would think if it was going to be a huge negative for us it would be done by now. I tend to think the longer it goes on, the better it is. No one really cares anymore.

Bella*chick said:

Yeah. But as the weeks drag on I find it so difficult to care anymore. Is anyone still waiting with bated breath on this thing? I would think if it was going to be a huge negative for us it would be done by now. I tend to think the longer it goes on, the better it is. No one really cares anymore.

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That's true, we cheated, again, that's what we do, the country has accepted it as fact.

Which is why Im still waiting for exoneration. I still care.

Not confident will ever see "exoneration", diminished responsibility at best.

IMO the NFL is waiting for some cataclysmic event, so it can be buried deep in the news..

Bella*chick said:

Yeah. But as the weeks drag on I find it so difficult to care anymore. Is anyone still waiting with bated breath on this thing? I would think if it was going to be a huge negative for us it would be done by now. I tend to think the longer it goes on, the better it is. No one really cares anymore.

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I care.

I want justice. My team was flogged in public on national TV for the two weeks leading up to the Super Bowl. Even DURING the last 3 minutes of tight game, the announcers had to yammer on about it. Even AFTER the SB, we had to hear from talking heads like Cris Carter about asterisks.

Sorry. I'm not ok about that.

VectorPrime said:

That means freaking April.

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Not necessarily. The beginning of the tournament are a couple weeks away, and if anything that would be the time to release anything. With all the craziness the first 4 days of March Madness hold, it would be the perfect time for an NFL "swept under the rug" news dump.

The annual meetings in Pheonix are Mar. 22-25. No way the league office releases any report from Wels before then finished or not. The meetings will come and go without anything therby letting Roger skip over and deflect any questioning until after that date.

There will be leaks at the tail end of the meetings after Roger is safely on a plane heading out of the area. Bank it.

blackglass3 said:

Not necessarily. The beginning of the tournament are a couple weeks away, and if anything that would be the time to release anything. With all the craziness the first 4 days of March Madness hold, it would be the perfect time for an NFL "swept under the rug" news dump.

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I trust that Robert Kraft has the inclination and the means to keep this from being swept under the rug.

OhExaulted1 said:

The annual meetings in Pheonix are Mar. 22-25. No way the league office releases any report from Wels before then finished or not. The meetings will come and go without anything therby letting Roger skip over and deflect any questioning until after that date.

There will be leaks at the tail end of the meetings after Roger is safely on a plane heading out of the area. Bank it.

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Reluctantly agree.
Roger's recent modus operandi is to hide from the media and pop up like a prairie gopher with an announcement and then pop back into the hole without media cross examination. Any time after the owners' meeting so that he can avoid press scrutiny, not that 90% of the synchophants would risk jeopardizing "access" by really pushing the point.

Bella*chick said:

Yeah. But as the weeks drag on I find it so difficult to care anymore. Is anyone still waiting with bated breath on this thing? I would think if it was going to be a huge negative for us it would be done by now. I tend to think the longer it goes on, the better it is. No one really cares anymore.

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I don't hear it being brought up any more, its like the sports media has moved on to free agency and the draft.

flasox27 said:

Keep in mind that everyone with half a brain knows that there is a scientific explanation for the decline in pressure.

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I disagree.

I believe that the vast number of fans believe that science can NOT explain the pressure drop. I believe this is due to the prominence given by the media to reports by alleged "experts" (e.g., deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, the morons at The Weather Channel, etc.) that assert that the weather can only explain a 0.5 psi pressure drop, and that the Patriots must have bled off the additional 1.5 psi.

Because this is exactly what they have read, over and over, in the media stories of the situation.

The media does not know, does not care, whether those "expert reports" are right or wrong. Reporters simply point at those reports and say, ignorantly, stupidly, "that's what the experts say."

Actually, One part of that sentence is wrong.
The media DOES care.

The incorrect story produces heroes and villains. It produces controversy. It produces sensationalism.

The correct story produces only a minor technical inadequacy in the rules.

Therefore, the incorrect story is the far, far better story.

When competent reports, from competent individuals, come out contradicting the incompetent ones, the media simply ignores the correct reports, and repeats the incorrect ones.

THIS is exactly how the media lies.

The media conveniently, self-servingly concludes that it is NOT their job to get the facts correct in any story. They consider their job to be "finding some 'expert', no matter how clueless, who will give them a sensational sound bite."

This is PRECISELY how one becomes a "media expert". You say outrageous things.

Do this, and you'll be have microphones thrust in your face.
Speak reasonably, thoughtfully, competently, and you'll never be quoted.

People should pay attention to this principle on issues that are far, FAR more important than "deflated footballs".

flasox27 said:

Consequently, the witch hunt could have ended in 24 hours yet it is still going on.

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OK, you tell me.
Exactly how does the controversy end in 24 hours?

I have stated my recommended method of accomplishing this in 48 hours.
I'd like to hear your approach.

flasox27 said:

The media and public knows this and it doesn't matter to them.

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As stated above, the media is ignorant (willfully ignorant) of science, and prints whatever is the most outrageous, sensational story. In other words, the media prints BS. And then believes their own BS.

The public gets its information from the media.

Please explain to me how the public is supposed to arrive at the correct conclusions from this pathological process.

flasox27 said:

All Goodell needs to punish the Pats is that a rule was violated i.e. the pressure was less than the prescribed amount regardless of how it got there.

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Any rule that specifies the inflation state of a football, without MEASURING and COMPENSATING FOR the temperature at which the pressure measurements are taken, is incompetent, and impossible to enforce or follow.

flasox27 said:

After 2007, the public and media believes the Pats are cheaters so punishing them is a positive factor for Goodell not a negative as people in New England think.
BLS 68

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You've got a pretty cynical opinion about the American public's sense of justice.

In the immediate aftermath of the OKC bombing, the media's (& the public's) guesswork was that it was the product of some Middle East terrorist group. Based on prior history, this was not an outrageous guess.

However, just as soon as the facts started leading to a domestic terrorist, the American public changed their opinions to match the facts. They did not hold onto the opinion that, because middle east terrorists had performed similar attacks in the past, they were guilty of this act.

I guess I am far less cynical than you regarding the American public's sense of justice.

tom.kordis said:

I disagree.

I believe that the vast number of fans believe that science can NOT explain the pressure drop. I believe this is due to the prominence given by the media to reports by alleged "experts" (e.g., deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, the morons at The Weather Channel, etc.) that assert that the weather can only explain a 0.5 psi pressure drop, and that the Patriots must have bled off the additional 1.5 psi.

Because this is exactly what they have read, over and over, in the media stories of the situation.

The media does not know, does not care, whether those "expert reports" are right or wrong. Reporters simply point at those reports and say, ignorantly, stupidly, "that's what the experts say."

Actually, One part of that sentence is wrong.
The media DOES care.

The incorrect story produces heroes and villains. It produces controversy. It produces sensationalism.

The correct story produces only a minor technical inadequacy in the rules.

Therefore, the incorrect story is the far, far better story.

When competent reports, from competent individuals, come out contradicting the incompetent ones, the media simply ignores the correct reports, and repeats the incorrect ones.

THIS is exactly how the media lies.

The media conveniently, self-servingly concludes that it is NOT their job to get the facts correct in any story. They consider their job to be "finding some 'expert', no matter how clueless, who will give them a sensational sound bite."

This is PRECISELY how one becomes a "media expert". You say outrageous things.

Do this, and you'll be have microphones thrust in your face.
Speak reasonably, thoughtfully, competently, and you'll never be quoted.

People should pay attention to this principle on issues that are far, FAR more important than "deflated footballs".



OK, you tell me.
Exactly how does the controversy end in 24 hours?

I have stated my recommended method of accomplishing this in 48 hours.
I'd like to hear your approach.



As stated above, the media is ignorant (willfully ignorant) of science, and prints whatever is the most outrageous, sensational story. In other words, the media prints BS. And then believes their own BS.

The public gets its information from the media.

Please explain to me how the public is supposed to arrive at the correct conclusions from this pathological process.



Any rule that specifies the inflation state of a football, without MEASURING and COMPENSATING FOR the temperature at which the pressure measurements are taken, is incompetent, and impossible to enforce or follow.



You've got a pretty cynical opinion about the American public's sense of justice.

In the immediate aftermath of the OKC bombing, the media's (& the public's) guesswork was that it was the product of some Middle East terrorist group. Based on prior history, this was not an outrageous guess.

However, just as soon as the facts started leading to a domestic terrorist, the American public changed their opinions to match the facts. They did not hold onto the opinion that, because middle east terrorists had performed similar attacks in the past, they were guilty of this act.

I guess I am far less cynical than you regarding the American public's sense of justice.

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Let me address this on a point by point basis.
The controversy could have ended by the commissioner stating that the case in under review and the leaks from his office could have been stopped. Has there been any controversy or leaks concerning the Jets tampering case or the Cleveland texting case or the Atlanta noise case.
Regarding, the scientific explanation of the case, the majority of the scientific community supports the explanation that the climatic conditions impact the measureable pressure. The reason I said half a brain is that I am aware that a portion of the public doesn't believe in science.
I agree with your assessment of the media and its affect on the public's opinion, but the leaks which came from the commissioner's office were one sided and created to build up antipathy toward the Pats.
While I agree that this rule is illogical and unenforceable in a court of law, This commissioner has the authority to create and enforce rules as he sees fit.
As for the opinion of the American public, if this was the first time a negative story came out about the Pats, then you may may have a valid point. However after seven years of anti Pats propaganda from the league office and media starting with the punishment of the camera positioning incident, the public's opinion of the Pats outside of New England is etched in granite . I live outside of New England and work with intelligent people from other parts of the country and their opinion of the Patriots can be summed up in one word "Cheaters" regardless of whatever factual explanation I present.

tom.kordis said:

I disagree.

I believe that the vast number of fans believe that science can NOT explain the pressure drop. I believe this is due to the prominence given by the media to reports by alleged "experts" (e.g., deGrasse Tyson, Bill Nye, the morons at The Weather Channel, etc.) that assert that the weather can only explain a 0.5 psi pressure drop, and that the Patriots must have bled off the additional 1.5 psi.

Because this is exactly what they have read, over and over, in the media stories of the situation.

The media does not know, does not care, whether those "expert reports" are right or wrong. Reporters simply point at those reports and say, ignorantly, stupidly, "that's what the experts say."

Actually, One part of that sentence is wrong.
The media DOES care.

The incorrect story produces heroes and villains. It produces controversy. It produces sensationalism.

The correct story produces only a minor technical inadequacy in the rules.

Therefore, the incorrect story is the far, far better story.

When competent reports, from competent individuals, come out contradicting the incompetent ones, the media simply ignores the correct reports, and repeats the incorrect ones.

THIS is exactly how the media lies.

The media conveniently, self-servingly concludes that it is NOT their job to get the facts correct in any story. They consider their job to be "finding some 'expert', no matter how clueless, who will give them a sensational sound bite."

This is PRECISELY how one becomes a "media expert". You say outrageous things.

Do this, and you'll be have microphones thrust in your face.
Speak reasonably, thoughtfully, competently, and you'll never be quoted.

People should pay attention to this principle on issues that are far, FAR more important than "deflated footballs".



OK, you tell me.
Exactly how does the controversy end in 24 hours?

I have stated my recommended method of accomplishing this in 48 hours.
I'd like to hear your approach.



As stated above, the media is ignorant (willfully ignorant) of science, and prints whatever is the most outrageous, sensational story. In other words, the media prints BS. And then believes their own BS.

The public gets its information from the media.

Please explain to me how the public is supposed to arrive at the correct conclusions from this pathological process.



Any rule that specifies the inflation state of a football, without MEASURING and COMPENSATING FOR the temperature at which the pressure measurements are taken, is incompetent, and impossible to enforce or follow.



You've got a pretty cynical opinion about the American public's sense of justice.

In the immediate aftermath of the OKC bombing, the media's (& the public's) guesswork was that it was the product of some Middle East terrorist group. Based on prior history, this was not an outrageous guess.

However, just as soon as the facts started leading to a domestic terrorist, the American public changed their opinions to match the facts. They did not hold onto the opinion that, because middle east terrorists had performed similar attacks in the past, they were guilty of this act.

I guess I am far less cynical than you regarding the American public's sense of justice.

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The most laughable thing about the whole issue is the science shows it actually slows down the balls velocity with less air pressure, giving the defender an extra inch of reaction time. All this fuss is over the weight of a dollar bill, but it ended up generating lots of dollar bills with the ensuing sensasionalism.

tom.kordis said:

Any rule that specifies the inflation state of a football, without MEASURING and COMPENSATING FOR the temperature at which the pressure measurements are taken, is incompetent, and impossible to enforce or follow.

Click to expand...

So. What.

You seem to be laboring under the misconception that this is some sort of court of law, where reality matters.

Goodell can very simply say "The rule says the balls need to be 12.5-13.5 PSI during the game. The balls were not. Therefore we are levying a fine of $X". As for enforcing that rule -- it's trivial to enforce -- you measure the balls during the game and see if they are under.

I know, I know. You're gonna say "science says the balls had to be under pressure." Aye, 'tis true. But again, So. What.

tom.kordis said:

You've got a pretty cynical opinion about the American public's sense of justice.

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Damn straight. And why shouldn't I? The public (especially in the sports area) hasn't given me much of a reason to think otherwise.

rlcarr said:

So. What.

You seem to be laboring under the misconception that this is some sort of court of law, where reality matters.

Goodell can very simply say "The rule says the balls need to be 12.5-13.5 PSI during the game. The balls were not. Therefore we are levying a fine of $X". As for enforcing that rule -- it's trivial to enforce -- you measure the balls during the game and see if they are under.

I know, I know. You're gonna say "science says the balls had to be under pressure." Aye, 'tis true. But again, So. What.



Damn straight. And why shouldn't I? The public (especially in the sports area) hasn't given me much of a reason to think otherwise.

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You keep skipping over the part where the officials approve the balls for play.

rochrist said:

You keep skipping over the part where the officials approve the balls for play.

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And?

You apparently missed the discussion some days ago (can't recall if in this thread or one of the other ones) where the text of the NFL's January 23rd statement makes it rather clear that the NFL views the "balls must be 12.5-13.5 PSI" rule as applying during the entire game.

So the fact that the refs approved the balls before the game is irrelevant should Goodell want to fine NE. The NFL's position is that the balls have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI for the entire game. The balls were (allegedly) measured at halftime and (allegedly) at least one was under 12.5 PSI. Ergo Goodell has the basis to fine NE should he want to.

You can rage all you want about how nonsensical that would be (and it would be). But the reaction from everyone outside the NE fanbase will be (at best) "go play the world's smallest violin."

rlcarr said:

And?

You apparently missed the discussion some days ago (can't recall if in this thread or one of the other ones) where the text of the NFL's January 23rd statement makes it rather clear that the NFL views the "balls must be 12.5-13.5 PSI" rule as applying during the entire game.

So the fact that the refs approved the balls before the game is irrelevant should Goodell want to fine NE. The NFL's position is that the balls have to be 12.5-13.5 PSI for the entire game. The balls were (allegedly) measured at halftime and (allegedly) at least one was under 12.5 PSI. Ergo Goodell has the basis to fine NE should he want to.

You can rage all you want about how nonsensical that would be (and it would be). But the reaction from everyone outside the NE fanbase will be (at best) "go play the world's smallest violin."

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It's only irrelevent ONLY if it can be shown that NE screwed with the balls. If they were approved for play, and weren't meddled with, and in fact, can't BY RULE be meddled with, then the NFL hasn't got any ground to stand on. Ergo, he doesn't. Unless it's just '**** the rules, we do what we want cause it's NE'.

If Goodell fines the Patriots for something completely and utterly out of their control Kraft will rain hell fire on him, I can feel it. Goodell is not that stupid to bring that down.

rochrist said:

It's only irrelevent ONLY if it can be shown that NE screwed with the balls. If they were approved for play, and weren't meddled with, and in fact, can't BY RULE be meddled with, then the NFL hasn't got any ground to stand on.

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Again, you're treating this like it's some courtroom procedure where any of that matters.

If (as it would seem from the NFL's statement) the NFL is treating the 12.5-13.5 PSI standard as something analogous to a "strict liability" crime or tort it does not matter what proof of screwing with balls the NFL does or does not have. The fact of at least one ball being under 12.5 PSI is itself the "ground to stand on" if Goodell wants to go that route.

If Goodell issues a statement like "The balls were in the correct pressure range at check-in. The balls were measured at halftime and N of them were below the 12.5 PSI standard. We have been unable to find any evidence of tampering with the balls. However, since Rule 2 Section 1 requires the balls to be in the 12.5-13.5 PSI range during play, I am fining NE $X for using non-complying balls" no one outside of NE is going to care. If anything, people will be complaining that NE wasn't punished more.

I also don't think Goodell is going to admit he and the league were too stupid to realize the effects of temperature on pressure. So I believe all of you hoping for some complete official exoneration from the league will be disappointed.

Hey -- I hope to hell I'm wrong on all this. I most definitely want the league to (in effect) say "Ooops! Yeah, it turns out temperature accounts for all of this. Our bad and we apologize." But I'm not going to be holding my breath waiting for it.