Bills trade for LeSean McCoy + Matt Cassel

JPsPats said:

Would u trade Collins or Hightower for Jamal Charles ?

Don't sit here and say you wouldn't think about it

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me maybe.

Bill. No chance. thats why he's the gm.

JPsPats said:

Would u trade Collins or Hightower for Jamal Charles ?

Don't sit here and say you wouldn't think about it

Click to expand...

No. (1) HT & Collins are larger and more dependable than Kiko (2) NE has Brady. The fact that the Bills are getting an elite talent at RB will help them more than such an acquisition for the Patriots because Rex has more of a need to depend heavily in the run. (3) The team needs are different. For the past decade, NE has been great on O, but has had several problems on D. They can less afford to lose key defensive players. Buffalo has had a more than solid D lately (including 2014 without Kiko) and needs more help on O.

Let me join the discussion.

Of all active players, McCoy is the tenth that most touched the ball(1.761), with all players ahead of him being on league for longer.

Still, he's a long way from being frayed, with at least 2 season of being able to reproduce the same amount of touches or more (he's now at 293 per season, on average)

I think that the Bills are lacking at the OL and at QB. Other than that, they are a good, wild card play-off team. With Shady, the pressure will be lower to whoever will be throwing and i think, with the Icognito addition as evidence, upgrading the OL will be a high priority for them.

Not only that, but Rex is great as a "defense" coach. He will be able to mitigate the absence of Kiko and coach up another LB, which would be harder for him to do for a RB, which he could only be addressing on the second round at earliest.

I don't think this is a ground breaking trade, nor do I think that the power of the East has changed(not even close), an Kiko could become a stud and be at that level for a decade, but i think the Bills became more dangerous and i think they have "won" the trade, at least for now

Deus Irae said:

Mark Sanchez first 3 seasons:

63.0 QB rating (12tds-20ints) 5.5 int%
75.3 QB rating (17tds-13ints) 2.6 int%
78.2 QB rating (26tds-18ints) 3.3 int%

EJ Manuel, to date:

77.7 QB rating (11tds-9ints) 2.9 int%
80.3 QB rating (5tds-3ints) 2.3 int%

I'm not saying that Manuel's the guy they're going with, or that he's any good, but people forget just how bad Sanchez was as a starting QB in NY when Ryan got them to those AFCCGs.

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It's funny hearing how "Ryan got them to those AFCCGs" when he actually thought they didn't make the playoffs that year. I guess he didn't see the possibility that Indy would throw the game to knock Pittsburgh out of the playoffs. It almost worked too. Indy routed the Jets less than a month later.

JPsPats said:

Would u trade Collins or Hightower for Jamal Charles ?

Don't sit here and say you wouldn't think about it

Click to expand...

No.

Hightower - 24 years old . Collins - 25 years old. Jamal Charles - 28.
They are way cheaper today. They have championship experience. They probably like/love NE. They are top 5 @LB ( imo better than Kj, Hali, even Matthews) already.
If you want to trade any LB i will be fine with Mayo plus TB forth for JC. Why? Similar age. Cap Hit will be closer than Collins or Hightower today. And Mayo was one of the best LB ( maybe the best) when healthy,

condon84 said:

Don't worry man, the reaction here by majority of posters is typical of how these dudes react. If this trade was made by us, we'd be creaming all over our pants.

We're still gonna kick your @ss next year but still a good trade.

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I think McCoy is an excellent talent, but I'd be livid if the Pats made this move. I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but McCoy is a fumble waiting to happen. He rarely holds the ball high and tight, and when he is making moves, almost always moves the ball pretty far from his body. If he could fix that, he'd easily be the second best RB in the league, and a case could be made for being the best. Because his ball security is so bad, he's not in the top 5 and certainly not a fit on a BB team.

JPsPats said:

Would u trade Collins or Hightower for Jamal Charles ?

Don't sit here and say you wouldn't think about it

Click to expand...

Why do the Patriots need another running back?

If anything they need the LB depth.

Your question is straight out of a Fantasy Football Forum.

ok so forget the rivalry, from a football analysis standpoint, which QB would be a good fit for them to make a push? Hoyer? Trade for Glennon? Mallot?

Sanchez or Cousins

it's going to be interesting to see rex turn the bills defense into 3-4......expect to see serious growing pains on that front next year......alozo didn't fit that scheme anyway.....but then again neither does dareus, williams, or pretty much any LB that they have...

In general, I wouldn't trade a promising young linebacker for any RB, but especially not one with a high cap hit. I find the RB position to be 90% interchangeable. However, Alonso is coming off of a major injury and Rex is known for being able to find defensive players. In his situation it may be easier for him to find a LB replacement than find an elite RB, so in that regard it makes sense.

This is an excellent trade for the Bills, they need to lean on the running game since they lack a proven quarterback. They will run the ball with some deep passes sprinkled in and play defense.

This is exactly the style of play I think wins championships. People are really fooling themselves if they think this is another Bills' disaster in the making. McCoy has been described as a top tier RB who can beat a team with pure speed, moves in the open field and catch the ball very well.

Lbs are kind of overrated in this league.

Deus Irae said:

Alonzo played 0 snaps for the Bills last year. The Bills defense still managed to finish 4th in both yards allowed and points allowed.

On the other hand, Spiller's gone and Jackson's old. Ryan likes to run the ball, and Roman's coming over from a run first offense with Frank Gore and the 49ers. The Bills traded a guy they didn't even use last year for one of the best RBs in the game.

If you want to say that you think Philly got the better end of the deal, that's at least debatable. But saying the deal made no sense for the Bills is crazy talk.

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I agree it makes the Bills better, but if what I read is true, McCoy's contract goes to 11.95 million against the cap (next year is 8.85, the year after 7.95). Honestly, if he was a free agent, would you pay him 11.95 to play for you this year?

Man, that's a lot of money for a RB. A quarter of that will get you a decent RB - a Vereen or so. Is McCoy really worth that much more?

To say nothing of giving up a potentially very, very good LB for him. That cap number is way too high.

But yeah, the Bills are going to be a good team this year. They might make the playoffs, but even if they do, can you see them going on the road and beating Baltimore, Denver, San Diego, KC, New England?

50-yard-line said:

I agree it makes the Bills better, but if what I read is true, McCoy's contract goes to 11.95 million against the cap (next year is 8.85, the year after 7.95). Honestly, if he was a free agent, would you pay him 11.95 to play for you this year?

Man, that's a lot of money for a RB. A quarter of that will get you a decent RB - a Vereen or so. Is McCoy really worth that much more?

To say nothing of giving up a potentially very, very good LB for him. That cap number is way too high.

But yeah, the Bills are going to be a good team this year. They might make the playoffs, but even if they do, can you see them going on the road and beating Baltimore, Denver, San Diego, KC, New England?

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They are not paying a Qb lots of money, so it is really about paying for offensive skill positions...and McCoy is so much better than Vereen, it makes me kind of sad.

As for beating good teams....they will be able to rush the passer and cover....defense almost always beats offense.

Nunchucks said:

They are not paying a Qb lots of money, so it is really about paying for offensive skill positions...and McCoy is so much better than Vereen, it makes me kind of sad.

As for beating good teams....they will be able to rush the passer and cover....defense almost always beats offense.

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The problem with that thinking is that RB production typically falls off a cliff much faster then other offensive skill positions.

50-yard-line said:

I agree it makes the Bills better, but if what I read is true, McCoy's contract goes to 11.95 million against the cap (next year is 8.85, the year after 7.95). Honestly, if he was a free agent, would you pay him 11.95 to play for you this year?

Man, that's a lot of money for a RB. A quarter of that will get you a decent RB - a Vereen or so. Is McCoy really worth that much more?

To say nothing of giving up a potentially very, very good LB for him. That cap number is way too high.

But yeah, the Bills are going to be a good team this year. They might make the playoffs, but even if they do, can you see them going on the road and beating Baltimore, Denver, San Diego, KC, New England?

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I agree with you. Thats why i hope we dont overpay Revis. If they pay him 16 or 18 i will be very upset. Lets say if if you have the opportunity to choose would you choose :

a. Revis by 18m a year
b. Vontae Davis + Talib ( healthy )
c. Vontae Davis + Browner + 3,5m cap space

I am surprised how much people dismiss a ILB. Alonso is not a big pick up because he is just a MLB/ILB? Luke Kuechly and Patrick Willis say "Hello". Sure Alonso needs to prove himself and get better at his game, but he was a rookie stud. He is likely to become a much better players over the next few years.

Speaking of that, why are people killing the guy about his lack of ability to stop the run or other deficiencies? He was a rookie and not a complete player. If we went by rookie evaluations for both Hightower and Collins, we would say they would never become the players they became last year. Neither player were half the players they were last year in their rookie seasons. Collins showed a few flashes, but that was it.

And when did RBs come into favor? All of the sudden Shady McCoy is a must have from every team after the trend of several years of teams devaluating the RB position. Top RBs prospects have gone from high first round picks to late first round/early second round picks. People are saying DeMarco Murray (the top RB from last year) is not going get the money he wants because teams don't pay RBs. Now McCoy is a huge acquistion in a lopsided trade?

I don't think it was a bad trade for the Bills. Short term, it helps them. But they may have given away a blue chip player who has a good 8-10 years left in him barring injuries for a RB who is going to demand top dollar or cause problems who is likely to only give them a few years before his salary outweighs his value. Short term it could be a good deal, but long term it might really hurt.

BTW, the Ryan philosophy of Ground and Pound isn't guaranteed to be as successful as it was in 2010 (the only year it really worked) especially with the rule emphases of last year. It is more of a passing league than ever.

Hopefully they don't find themselves a quarterback. That defense was already excellent even without Alonso last year. They've done nothing but upgrade the RB position with a top end talent, have a quality corps of receivers, and a good enough OL. Like the 2009 and 2010 Jets, they're lacking at the QB position and the answer is not currently on the roster. Hopefully things stay that way.

Galeb said:

I think McCoy is an excellent talent, but I'd be livid if the Pats made this move. I haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but McCoy is a fumble waiting to happen. He rarely holds the ball high and tight, and when he is making moves, almost always moves the ball pretty far from his body. If he could fix that, he'd easily be the second best RB in the league, and a case could be made for being the best. Because his ball security is so bad, he's not in the top 5 and certainly not a fit on a BB team.

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Ball security so bad? Dude, what in the hell are you talking about?

In 1461 rushing attempts, he's fumbled it 12 times. That's roughly 1 fumble in every 121 rushing attempts

You are basically criticizing him for something your perceive may happen in the future when he's already has a good amount of data to tell us what his fumble rate is going to be.

Coincidentally, Legarrette Blount has fumbled 10 in 704 attempts which equal to about 1 in every 76 rushing attempts.

JPsPats said:

Would u trade Collins or Hightower for Jamal Charles ?

Don't sit here and say you wouldn't think about it

Click to expand...

Hell no. We have Brady who can bail us out on offense. He can make average players look good and good players look great.

Bills have EJ Manuel. He's not making anybody look good. They need all the offensive players they can get.