Seriously...why is it taking so long?

flasox27 said:

Let me just state that if Kraft had any influence or power, there never would have been any investigation in the first place. It would have been handled like the case of Bisciotti lying to Goodell about Ray Rice and the Jets tampering case with no leaks and no witch hunt.While Kraft is on the committee negotiating with CBS, does anybody believe that CBS would not negotiate with anyone else. By the way, ABC and ESPN have contracts with the NFL and I don't see them showing any respect to Kraft in their coverage of the witch hunt. You may think that Bisciotti has no influence with his golfing buddy Goodell, but the facts speak differently. Goodell was going to suspend Rice for only two games which is less than for smoking pot until the tape surfaced. Compare that to the penalties for wrong placement of a camera. Getting back to the essence of the socalled investigation conducted by Goodell's hand pickede investigator, I f there was going to be an exoneration based on the scientific explanation, that information would have been made weeks ago We shall see what the end result is eventually. I am not betting on the facts or Kraft's influence wining

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You're right, Kraft is a nobody. He has no influence. What were we thinking. The Patriots will be forced to disband.

flasox27 said:

Let me just state that if Kraft had any influence or power, there never would have been any investigation in the first place. It would have been handled like the case of Bisciotti lying to Goodell about Ray Rice and the Jets tampering case with no leaks and no witch hunt.While Kraft is on the committee negotiating with CBS, does anybody believe that CBS would not negotiate with anyone else. By the way, ABC and ESPN have contracts with the NFL and I don't see them showing any respect to Kraft in their coverage of the witch hunt. You may think that Bisciotti has no influence with his golfing buddy Goodell, but the facts speak differently. Goodell was going to suspend Rice for only two games which is less than for smoking pot until the tape surfaced. Compare that to the penalties for wrong placement of a camera. Getting back to the essence of the socalled investigation conducted by Goodell's hand pickede investigator, I f there was going to be an exoneration based on the scientific explanation, that information would have been made weeks ago We shall see what the end result is eventually. I am not betting on the facts or Kraft's influence wining

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And I am betting there will be absolutely no sanctions at all against the Patriots. We will see who is right in a few weeks.

I don't believe Goodell knew anything at all about what Kensil was up to and by the time he was made aware of it The ball was already rolling because of the leaks to Kravitz. And I think the reason Wells was brought in was because,the investigation was already contaminated by the leaks from Kensil and the league office, as well as the issue of an NFL employee involved in handling game balls stealing them and selling them for personal profit. I believe Kraft wanted and supported bringing Wells into this because he knows the Patriots did nothing wrong and that there are people in the league office, most notably Mike Kensil, who are out to get the Patriots and can't be trusted to be involved with any investigation or its outcome.

As far as Goodell goes there is only one audience he cares about, and it's not the Patriot haters its the owners, and Bob Kraft is undeniably one of the most powerful owners in the NFL and pretty much everyone other than you realizes this. Imo Mike Kensil and the Colts saddled Goodell with this investigation and it will cost Kensil his job in the end. Roger Goodell is weaker than he has ever been and there is no way in hell he is going to fabricate a a reason to sanction the Patriots and permanently alienate Robert Kraft.

shmessy said:

WHAT????

Rooney and Mara may come CLOSE to the power Kraft has.

Bisciotti is not even in the same zip code.

When Kraft said the lockout/strike was over, it ended.

Also, Kraft IS the NFL Television Committee and the NFL Television Committee IS the NFL. There is no other more powerful engine for the NFL than the television contracts. Everything else is bread and circus.

While everyone is worried about deflated footballs and cell phones, here's some advice:

Follow the Money!

Pay attention to Kraft's buddy Les Moonves and CBS buying the NFL Network.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/03/inside-blitz-cbs-inching-closer-to-buying-part-of-nfl-network/

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You hit the Nail on the head. I have posted a few times that this investigation is more about politics and money than deflation and conspiracies. The investigation is giving Goodell and the NFL time to strategize on how to get out of this mess with a whimper of a publicity hit.

Kraft has flexed his muscles. Goodell is trying to self preserve. The NFL is protecting it's brand. This is not a court of law. This is about Power and Money.

The Pats will not get punished because Kraft ( most powerful owner) has dug his heels in and will pursue any fines or penalties. Colts won't get punished because it would create a major ****storm for the NFL.

They will come out with a decision that centers around uncharted waters of better security for the balls, deli gent pre game testing and maintaing pressure throughout the game in bad weather games ( ala Columbia U). No fines, no penalties, nothing to see here.

Why. Because this has become more about Power and Money not deflation

Do I like this possible decision. NO. We have been dragged through the mud again. It will be a open cheat scandal again. Because we are in the minority of a larger NFL. We will once again have to close our eyes at night and know to ourselves that screw everyone else, we are the Best and all the rest is just sour grapes. Drive for Five

rlcarr said:

Sadly, Goodell doesn't care about what you or I think. He cares primarily about what the owners think and he secondarily (to the extent it affects the primary) cares about what the media thinks.

The non-NE media (and even most of the NE media) wants the Patriots scalped. There's decent evidence that quite a few owners would like to see that, too.

If Goodell says "We did a very thorough investigation yet were unable to find evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, since N balls were below 12.5 PSI and were therefore in violation of Playing Rule 2, Section 1, the Patriots will be fined $25,000 per ball", who besides NE fans and Kraft will really care? You'll have ESPN trumpeting headlines like NFL Couldn't Find Evidence of Patriot Cheating and/or Patriots Got Away With It and people like Breer saying how the fine proves they must have done something wrong, and Official League Mouthpiece and Shill Peter King how great Goodell's decision was because it makes it clear the NFL cares about the integrity of the game, and that will be the narrative. The narrative will not be "NFL & Wells are lying incompetent buffoons". Even if they are.

Sure, Kraft can (and should) go on the attack about it, but that'll just be dismissed by the national media as "Look, they were able to get away with it -- he should just shut up."

Does this all suck? Absolutely. But who exactly do you expect -- that matters and can affect the narrative -- will stick up for NE?

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Again, it's not the Patriots responsibility to ensure that the balls REMAIN ay 12.5 PSI. It's only their responsilbility to provide the balls. Once they're approved for play, that's it. Other than actively /tampering/ with the balls to lower the PSI, they're out of it.
I don't think Kraft would stand for that.

Ivan said:

And I am betting there will be absolutely no sanctions at all against the Patriots. We will see who is right in a few weeks.

I don't believe Goodell knew anything at all about what Kensil was up to and by the time he was made aware of it The ball was already rolling because of the leaks to Kravitz. And I think the reason Wells was brought in was because,the investigation was already contaminated by the leaks from Kensil and the league office, as well as the issue of an NFL employee involved in handling game balls stealing them and selling them for personal profit. I believe Kraft wanted and supported bringing Wells into this because he knows the Patriots did nothing wrong and that there are people in the league office, most notably Mike Kensil, who are out to get the Patriots and can't be trusted to be involved with any investigation or its outcome.

As far as Goodell goes there is only one audience he cares about, and it's not the Patriot haters its the owners, and Bob Kraft is undeniably one of the most powerful owners in the NFL and pretty much everyone other than you realizes this. Imo Mike Kensil and the Colts saddled Goodell with this investigation and it will cost Kensil his job in the end. Roger Goodell is weaker than he has ever been and there is no way in hell he is going to fabricate a a reason to sanction the Patriots and permanently alienate Robert Kraft.

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Once again let me preface this response with the proviso that I hope you are right and I am wrong. I acknowledge that Kraft has used his influence to benefir the league as a whole and Goodell in particular but I have yet to see any of his influence benefitting the Pats. The influence certainly didn't stop Goodell from punishing the Pats in an extrordinary fashion in the camera placement fiasco and destroying the tapes which would have shown others doing the same thing. It didn't prevent Goodell from hiring as his number two man, Kensil a person with a well known bias against the Pats It didn't stop the damaging leaks from coming from Goodell's office. In contrast, people with allegedly no influence like Woody Johnson can have his tampering case disappear from view and Bisciotti can lie to Goodell with seeming immunity. Regarding the Ted Wells investigation, he wrote the report concerning the bullying of the Dolphins players just the way the League wanted it and I have no doubt he will do the same now. I have my doubts that Kraft would have chosen him over someone like Tagliabue who isn't counting on future checks from the NFL. Finally, unlike you, I am convinced Goodell as long as the media (ESPN) and public applauds his actions and Rooney and Mara are supporting him can survive without Kraft in his corner. Such is the reputation of the Pats after 2007 when Kraft failed to support his team.

BUSTAMOVE said:

The Pats will not get punished because Kraft ( most powerful owner) has dug his heels in and will pursue any fines or penalties. Colts won't get punished because it would create a major ****storm for the NFL.

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I disagree.

The Pats won't get off just because of Kraft's power - you misread what I posted.

The Patriots won't get punished because they are INNOCENT in this case.

If they did something wrong, Kraft would accept it just as he did with Filming From The Wrong Location-Gate.

Your statement above is what the Jets/Colts/Steelers fans who say that the Pats will skate BECAUSE of Kraft's power. I wouldn't presume you meant it that way, but that's how it sounded.

rochrist said:

Again, it's not the Patriots responsibility to ensure that the balls REMAIN ay 12.5 PSI. It's only their responsilbility to provide the balls. Once they're approved for play, that's it. Other than actively /tampering/ with the balls to lower the PSI, they're out of it.
I don't think Kraft would stand for that.

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I certainly hope not. He already has the data from Dr Belichick's mad science experiments.

I think that no matter what the "verdict" is (good or bad for the Patriots), I think Kraft/BB should try and get the league/refs to track the ball pressure better for all future games (especially extreme cold or hot weather games). This would allow the Pats to clear their name if "convicted" and to shut up the doubters if the leagues absolves them. It really is the only way to satisfy everyone since Kensil supposedly destroyed the evidence. Maybe they could do this as a way of putting off any decision by basically gathering up new data to support or debunk the accusation???

Ever since this whole deflatgate mess started I have specifically noticed that flasox27 has, without exception, posted pessimism and negativity in regards to how he thinks things will end up. Look at his post history, every post is exactly the same. It's beyond tiring by this point and I'm beginning to think it's a gimmick.

I think we need a new leak to keep things interesting. And judging form the history of things, if it's an anti-Patriots leak, we can expect a second leak to follow shortly after.

flasox27 said:

Once again let me preface this response with the proviso that I hope you are right and I am wrong. I acknowledge that Kraft has used his influence to benefir the league as a whole and Goodell in particular but I have yet to see any of his influence benefitting the Pats. The influence certainly didn't stop Goodell from punishing the Pats in an extrordinary fashion in the camera placement fiasco and destroying the tapes which would have shown others doing the same thing. It didn't prevent Goodell from hiring as his number two man, Kensil a person with a well known bias against the Pats It didn't stop the damaging leaks from coming from Goodell's office. In contrast, people with allegedly no influence like Woody Johnson can have his tampering case disappear from view and Bisciotti can lie to Goodell with seeming immunity. Regarding the Ted Wells investigation, he wrote the report concerning the bullying of the Dolphins players just the way the League wanted it and I have no doubt he will do the same now. I have my doubts that Kraft would have chosen him over someone like Tagliabue who isn't counting on future checks from the NFL. Finally, unlike you, I am convinced Goodell as long as the media (ESPN) and public applauds his actions and Rooney and Mara are supporting him can survive without Kraft in his corner. Such is the reputation of the Pats after 2007 when Kraft failed to support his team.

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I'm not going to just keep repeating the same argument. I have made my case and you have yours, we will see who is right when this is done. The only thing I am going to add is that I think Kraft was being very deliberate in his use of language in his press conference when he said "This is not how you treat a partner. " He was drawing a line in the sand for Goodell and making it clear that he is one of those who own the NFL and Goodell is just an employee. Goodell works for him, not the other way around. Goodell can be replaced, Kraft is here to stay. And other owners, like Rooney, Mara, and Jones are actually much closer to Kraft than they are Goodell, and if you overstep your bounds and try to screw them over you will pay a steep price for it. I don't think any of those owners will simply stand by and allow any commissioner to fabricate charges against them and sanction them just for the hell of it. This is the weakest commissioner on the history of the NFL and there is no way he would survive sanctioning Kraft simply to satisfy Patrioy haters.

Today marks the start of the 7th week of this investigation if I count correctly.

I was listening to Vic Carucci and Amani Toomer earlier this morning and one of their callers asked if they had heard anything or had any news about the investigation. Neither of them had news on it and both wondered why the investigation was taking so long. Carucci wondered if the league would issue the report (assuming it's done) before the owner's meetings on 3/22 or if they'd wait until after that. He believed that the league will introduce new guidelines for how the footballs are prepared and monitored before games.

Toomer, in a pleasant surprise, thought the whole topic was ridiculous. He said he was on a different show and the hosts handed him two footballs, one inflated to 13 PSI and the other at 11 PSI, and he couldn't tell the difference. That was nice to hear compared to the likes of Phil Simms and Cris Carter who claim they can detect the tiniest disparity between two footballs. Toomer went on to talk about how preparing the footballs indoors and then bringing them out to a colder environment will result in a change in the PSI. It was great to hear someone use the phrase "ambient temperature" when discussing this. He closed by saying the whole topic was much ado about nothing, nothing was done to gain an advantage and it wasn't cheating.

BradyManny said:

Today marks the start of the 7th week of this investigation if I count correctly.

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Ted Wells: "Ka-Chiiiiiing!!!!"

I think the point Koma raised about the report being released around the owners meetings made a great deal of sense because they could tie it to changes being made at those meetings about how game balls will be handled in the future. I think they are going to want to blend it in with as much league news so they can to put it to rest as quietly as they can.

flasox27 said:

Once again let me preface this response with the proviso that I hope you are right and I am wrong. I acknowledge that Kraft has used his influence to benefir the league as a whole and Goodell in particular but I have yet to see any of his influence benefitting the Pats. The influence certainly didn't stop Goodell from punishing the Pats in an extrordinary fashion in the camera placement fiasco and destroying the tapes which would have shown others doing the same thing. It didn't prevent Goodell from hiring as his number two man, Kensil a person with a well known bias against the Pats It didn't stop the damaging leaks from coming from Goodell's office. In contrast, people with allegedly no influence like Woody Johnson can have his tampering case disappear from view and Bisciotti can lie to Goodell with seeming immunity. Regarding the Ted Wells investigation, he wrote the report concerning the bullying of the Dolphins players just the way the League wanted it and I have no doubt he will do the same now. I have my doubts that Kraft would have chosen him over someone like Tagliabue who isn't counting on future checks from the NFL. Finally, unlike you, I am convinced Goodell as long as the media (ESPN) and public applauds his actions and Rooney and Mara are supporting him can survive without Kraft in his corner. Such is the reputation of the Pats after 2007 when Kraft failed to support his team.

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Kraft has a lot more power than you are giving him credit for. I believe Kraft in 2007 ( SpyGate) was making allies with Goodell to strengthen his teams position for all business and operation concerns. A memo was sent out to BB and he outright ignored it. I believe SpyGate was a farce. But when a team (Jets) Notifies the league of a complaint, the league memos you and you defy that heads up you get penalized. Kraft took too much of a penalty but he was not happy with BB's defiance. ( calked him a Smuck).

Kraft cannot control Goodell hiring Kensil. Kensil has become a problem to the Pats as of late and I am sure Kraft is working behind the scenes to address this issue. The Pats have benefited many of times through favorable schedule opponent matchup dates and first to get a loan from NFL to build stadium and I'm sure their are many others that we are not privy to.

Kraft's business savy has scored mega money through TV rights and has been the go to man on stoppages and sorts. Don't think that this does not play huge with other owners. Their franchise depends on his power of getting things done.

Goodell is an egotistical maniac and has gone one to far against an ally. This will spell his death. Your total pessimistic view of Kraft is noticeable. Maybe he jilted you on tickets or something. But I believe his power will show this time around

Seriously , why IS it taking so long?

BUSTAMOVE said:

Goodell is an egotistical maniac

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Interesting, I always thought Goodell suffered from an inferiority complex due to his ineptitude (seriously).

Ivan said:

I think the point Koma raised about the report being released around the owners meetings made a great deal of sense because they could tie it to changes being made at those meetings about how game balls will be handled in the future. I think they are going to want to blend it in with as much league news so they can to put it to rest as quietly as they can.

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I apologize. I didn't include some information in my post, so my point about what Carucci was saying wasn't clear. He believed the league wants this to go away quietly, so they would want to avoid having a press conference about the investigation during the Owner's meetings. That's why he thought they might do something either before the meetings or after, so it would be a lower profile.

I hope the people in the league office are bright enough to realize that there isn't going to be a "good" time to release this report so it will quietly go away. The rampant speculation during the week after the AFCCG (which the NFL is partially responsible for, since they stayed silent during that time) made this a huge story and ensured that the results of the investigation will get plenty of attention, whether they are released on a Friday afternoon, a Sunday morning or during the Owners meetings. The press conference may not get the same amount of attention as the one about Ray Rice, but it will be in the ball park.

An unrelated thought about the possibility of Goodell apologizing: This will the second time since early September that Goodell would have had to make a public apology. People in positions like his do not get to use the "I'm sorry. I'll do better next time." move very often and still keep their jobs. Maybe Kraft will be satisfied with a private apology. If not, and Goodell apologizes during the press conference, he might as well follow that up with "I have decided to step down as commissioner of the National Football League."

VectorPrime said:

Ever since this whole deflatgate mess started I have specifically noticed that flasox27 has, without exception, posted pessimism and negativity in regards to how he thinks things will end up. Look at his post history, every post is exactly the same. It's beyond tiring by this point and I'm beginning to think it's a gimmick.

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nonp

VectorPrime said:

Ever since this whole deflatgate mess started I have specifically noticed that flasox27 has, without exception, posted pessimism and negativity in regards to how he thinks things will end up. Look at his post history, every post is exactly the same. It's beyond tiring by this point and I'm beginning to think it's a gimmick.[/QUOThis is no gimmick . I am just facing the reality of the situation. Kraft may have immense influence in the business side of the league but there is no evidence that it carries over to the football side of the league. To the contrary, Goodell has consitently punished the Pats excessively with impunity without a peep

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BUSTAMOVE said:

Kraft has a lot more power than you are giving him credit for. I believe Kraft in 2007 ( SpyGate) was making allies with Goodell to strengthen his teams position for all business and operation concerns. A memo was sent out to BB and he outright ignored it. I believe SpyGate was a farce. But when a team (Jets) Notifies the league of a complaint, the league memos you and you defy that heads up you get penalized. Kraft took too much of a penalty but he was not happy with BB's defiance. ( calked him a Smuck).

Kraft cannot control Goodell hiring Kensil. Kensil has become a problem to the Pats as of late and I am sure Kraft is working behind the scenes to address this issue. The Pats have benefited many of times through favorable schedule opponent matchup dates and first to get a loan from NFL to build stadium and I'm sure their are many others that we are not privy to.

Kraft's business savy has scored mega money through TV rights and has been the go to man on stoppages and sorts. Don't think that this does not play huge with other owners. Their franchise depends on his power of getting things done.

Goodell is an egotistical maniac and has gone one to far against an ally. This will spell his death. Your total pessimistic view of Kraft is noticeable. Maybe he jilted you on tickets or something. But I believe his power will show this time around

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This will be my final response on this topic and is addressed to those who believe Kraft has some incredible influence that will cause Goodell to render an honest decision in this matter. Let me just advise that those who have become weary with my posts to take full advantage of the ignore button at this time
The fact remains that the NFL financially is a partnership but for football matters is a collection of 32 competitors with only one victor. Any owner who thinks otherwise is to coin a phrase is a schmuck. Undeniably, Kraft is a good businessman whose savvy has made money for his partners and consequently has a lot of influence in business matters. Regarding football matters especially as pertains to Goodell's actions, he has less than zero influence in no small part due to his rolling over in subservience in the camera placement issue. He allowed the once pristine reputation of his team to be destroyed without as much as word of protest and gained absolutely nothing in return. That was unforgiveable. Contrast the kid gloves treatment of the Jets even Woody Johnson is to all concerned an idiot with no influence at all on the financial workings of the League. They filmed the Pats with impunity to the point where the league laughingly stated that the Pats gave them permission. They tripped a player on the opposing team with no loss of draft picks. Now they have tampered with a Pats player without any leaks or other apparent repercussions.That is truly demonstrative of influence. We are supposed to believe that a man with tissue paper for a backbone and an ear to the media and public is going to take an action which is going to make him and his handpicked henchmen look ridiculous because he fears for his position because Kraft is PO'd. Let me just state from my vantage point in Florida that any adverse action taken by him against the Pats will be applauded by the media and the masses. In addition what Kraft may not realize himself is that the other owners are not going to feel sorry for him as a partner but are more than happy that their competitor got screwed. Finally the thought that somehow Kraft controls enough owners to force out Goodell is laughable. Goodell is in a far less precarious position than after the Rice fiasco broke in no small part thanks to the unequivocal endorsement given by Kraft followed by the whitewash investigation presided over by Rooney and Mara. What really can Kraft say to the other owners" He was doing a great job a few months ago but after screwing my team he should be fired." That will certainly be persuasive LOL. I see a lot of people proposing that in the event of punishment Kraft should take the League to court. He does not have the guts of Al Davis to taken on the league as an outlaw and it is not allowed by the League bylaws. Actually the only viable threat he has is that he will not sit on the committees that make money for his partners. I don't see him cutting off his nose to spite his face in that respect. To the true believers in the power of Kraft, keep on believing in miracles. As for myself, I am just waiting for the shoe to drop and Goodell to come out in better shape than Kraft.