Our $41M Secondary

203Pat said:

I don't think that they all should be great. I just don't think the ones that are far from great should continually see playing time.

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Other than the play in the SB and when Wilson went at him that game.
Can you point out some other bad plays this year so I have a reference point?

mgteich said:

If all goes well, in 2016 and 2017, our secondary will cost about $40M a year. I think that this doable, but it will definitely take solid planning. It is worth paying the money for the best secondary in the NFL, especially when you have a top 5 passing offense.

REVIS $16.5M
McCOURTY 9.5
BROWNER 5.0
ARRINGTON 4.0
CHUNG 3.0
BUTLER 1.0
RYAN 1.0
HARMON 1.0

I have only included 8 players. They will get almost all the reps. Dennard, Wilson, and Ebner are the rest of the secondary. I haven't included them, since their defensive reps don't matter much.

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Richard Sherman AAV = 14m
Earl Thomas AAV = 10m
Kam Chancellor AAV = 7m

31 million/year for 3 players (same as your example), all secondary, on the best team over the course of the last 2 years.

It is what it is.

I doubt Revis sees 16.5 a year - almost certainly not from the Patriots. 9.5 franchise for McCourty will probably be the biggest $$$$ year of his career unless the salary cap leaps and a continuation of the jump ball league, which I don't think will continue, actually.

203Pat said:

So good enough to make the best team is football? So what about every player that was released by their former team and we picked them up? They weren't good enough to play for a team that wasn't the best team in the NFL but they were for us. That is once again flawed logic.

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No, the flawed logic is you thinking you know more about defensive backs than Belichick.

I think 203 is being "a bit much", but - I will admit to being afraid of what will happen with Logan on the field on more than one occasion last year... I do not have a better option/plan. But I am hoping he either gets stuff figured out asap or that a viable option presents itself for 2015.

Also : while I recognize Revis is the big boy of the secondary and that I am ALL for paying the secondary to keep it intact, I still feel McCourty Is the "glue guy" we can't afford to lose. I think his smarts and skill and leadership and anticipation all cover for mistakes. And losing him is not something I want to contemplate. Do I hope Harmon continues to progress ? Of course ! But I do not want to have Harmon taking McCourty's place in 2015.

As stated earlier : WANT the 41M$ secondary if it means the gang's back.

203Pat said:

I know he does. That is where he plays best.

lol We are supposed to talk about camp? We haven't even had the draft or the start of free agency yet.

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Even better. Since you hate Logan Ryan. What is your plan. Draft another CB? Pick up a FA CB? Shoot him behind the stadium?

Bruins29 said:

Other than the play in the SB and when Wilson went at him that game.
Can you point out some other bad plays this year so I have a reference point?

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I think I did in a previous post but anyways, Aaron Rodgers targeted him instantly as soon as he came in and got burned by Davante Adams. Regis had been shutting down AJ Green all game then left for a play or two with a minor injury. No sooner did Revis leave the field that Ryan came in and Green scored a TD on him almost instantly. Those are just two I can name off the top of my head.

farn said:

But I am hoping he either gets stuff figured out asap or that a viable option presents itself for 2015.

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We may have it. Butler and Dennard behind Revis and BB.

Still you want cheap young guys around to develop because you cant always keep all your great players. So, keep LR around and see if he develops more or cut him now.

I still think we may draft a corner this year.

Bruins29 said:

Even better. Since you hate Logan Ryan. What is your plan. Draft another CB? Pick up a FA CB? Shoot him behind the stadium?

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Would try any of the aforementioned options. (KIDDING ABOUT SHOOTING HIM) My first choice would be to sign a veteran guy for low money, other than that draft a guy to play in that dime spot.

Bruins29 said:

We may have it. Butler and Dennard behind Revis and BB.

Still you want cheap young guys around to develop because you cant always keep all your great players. So, keep LR around and see if he develops more or cut him now.

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Keep him through camp and if he shows more of the same cut him.

203Pat said:

I think I did in a previous post but anyways, Aaron Rodgers targeted him instantly as soon as he came in and got burned by Davante Adams. Regis had been shutting down AJ Green all game then left for a play or two with a minor injury. No sooner did Revis leave the field that Ryan came in and Green scored a TD on him almost instantly. Those are just two I can name off the top of my head.

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I see. So I assume that if a 2nd or even 3rd string CB gets burned by the best passer in the league then he should not be on an NFL roster.

203Pat said:

I dont hate Harmon in the role that he has (limited/garbage time) but I have never seen anything out of him to warrant taking over for McCourty. Just asking here but do you think McCourty is worth keeping if we could only resign him for a TJ Ward/Earl Thomas type deal?

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Of course. After Revis McCourty is the team's top priority. I consider McCourty an elite FS; ergo he deserves to be compensated as such.

203Pat said:

No one has to but if you don't think Duron Harmon and Logan Ryan are the second coming of Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders then you're a "hater".

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I think a lot of people had the same feeling about McCourty after his second year that we're seeing with Ryan now.

Harmon? Nice pick against Baltimore to seal the deal.

If you're a troll, you're a determined one. If you're not a troll, it's too bad because your Superbowl crack about a team that just won the Superbowl would be less dumb coming from a troll than from someone who is actually, you know, a fan of the team.

I think Florio is reading this thread.

Keeping secondary intact would cost the Pats a fortune
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 1, 2015, 12:41 PM EST
AP
With free agency starting next week, the Patriots are in an interesting position: They can keep the three best players in their secondary but spend a fortune, or they could take the frugal route and risk losing Darrelle Revis, Devin McCourty and Brandon Browner.

The good news for the Patriots is that they have the choice to keep both Revis, McCourty and Browner, if they want to. Revis is under contract for 2015, and the Patriots can pick up his deal by paying him a $12 million roster bonus on March 9. Browner is under contract for $5.5 million in 2015, of which $2 million comes in a roster bonus next week. McCourty becomes a free agent on March 10, but the Patriots can keep him by using the franchise tag. McCourty has indicated that if the Patriots franchise him, he’ll sign the one-year, $9.6 million franchise tender.

The bad news for the Patriots is that picking up the second year on Revis’s contract would give him a $25 million cap hit for 2015. No other cornerback even has a cap hit of $15 million for 2015. Revis is great, but is he so great that the Patriots want to spend $10 million more on him than the Cardinals are spending on Patrick Peterson, and $13 million more than the Seahawks are spending on Richard Sherman or the Browns are spending on Joe Haden?

Throw in the $9.6 million for McCourty and the $5.5 million for Browner, and the Patriots would be spending more than $40 million on three players in their secondary.
Last year the Packers paid more for defensive backs than any other team, at $26.6 million for the 11 players in their secondary. Do the Patriots really want to blow up their cap to such an extent that they’re paying $14 million more than that just for the top three players in their secondary?

Maybe they do. But if they do, it’s a departure from the Patriots’ longtime practice of emphasizing depth and spreading the wealth around their roster, rather than spending a lot of money on a few key players. The Patriots have some big, and potentially expensive, decisions to make by next week.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...condary-intact-would-cost-the-pats-a-fortune/

50-yard-line said:

I think a lot of people had the same feeling about McCourty after his second year that we're seeing with Ryan now.

Harmon? Nice pick against Baltimore to seal the deal.

If you're a troll, you're a determined one. If you're not a troll, it's too bad because your Superbowl crack about a team that just won the Superbowl would be less dumb coming from a troll than from someone who is actually, you know, a fan of the team.

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Huh? That wasn't readable. Anyways manning centerfield on an obvious passing play doesn't make you Ronnie Lott.

farn said:

I think 203 is being "a bit much", but - I will admit to being afraid of what will happen with Logan on the field on more than one occasion last year... I do not have a better option/plan. But I am hoping he either gets stuff figured out asap or that a viable option presents itself for 2015.

Also : while I recognize Revis is the big boy of the secondary and that I am ALL for paying the secondary to keep it intact, I still feel McCourty Is the "glue guy" we can't afford to lose. I think his smarts and skill and leadership and anticipation all cover for mistakes. And losing him is not something I want to contemplate. Do I hope Harmon continues to progress ? Of course ! But I do not want to have Harmon taking McCourty's place in 2015.

As stated earlier : WANT the 41M$ secondary if it means the gang's back.

Click to expand...

I think the vast majority of Patriot fans want both back and are fine with Belichick using a big chunk of their cap space on their secondary. Overall the Patriots have been pretty straightforward and conservative in terms of allocating and utilizing cap space but if they decided to keep this secondary together it will force them to become more creative on coming years because they have a good number of really good young players they are going to have to pay. I think we will get some sense of what they are thinking in this draft. If they take an OL in the first it could indicate they are looking at both eventual replacement for Vollmer and not paying Solder the big money. Fleming or Cannon could be future starters and as guy like Fisher their future LT. Or they may see a player like Odighizuwa as insurance if they can't re-sign Jones.

203Pat said:

I think I did in a previous post but anyways, Aaron Rodgers targeted him instantly as soon as he came in and got burned by Davante Adams. Regis had been shutting down AJ Green all game then left for a play or two with a minor injury. No sooner did Revis leave the field that Ryan came in and Green scored a TD on him almost instantly. Those are just two I can name off the top of my head.

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How many teams' CB3/4/5 can successfully defend AJ Green?

At minimum, Ryan deserves a shot at safety if he doesn't show improvement at corner. I know several posters have argued (correctly, IMO) that his skill set is a better fit at the former than at the latter.

203Pat said:

I think Florio is reading this thread.

Keeping secondary intact would cost the Pats a fortune
Posted by Michael David Smith on March 1, 2015, 12:41 PM EST

AP
With free agency starting next week, the Patriots are in an interesting position: They can keep the three best players in their secondary but spend a fortune, or they could take the frugal route and risk losing Darrelle Revis, Devin McCourty and Brandon Browner.

The good news for the Patriots is that they have the choice to keep both Revis, McCourty and Browner, if they want to. Revis is under contract for 2015, and the Patriots can pick up his deal by paying him a $12 million roster bonus on March 9. Browner is under contract for $5.5 million in 2015, of which $2 million comes in a roster bonus next week. McCourty becomes a free agent on March 10, but the Patriots can keep him by using the franchise tag. McCourty has indicated that if the Patriots franchise him, he’ll sign the one-year, $9.6 million franchise tender.

The bad news for the Patriots is that picking up the second year on Revis’s contract would give him a $25 million cap hit for 2015. No other cornerback even has a cap hit of $15 million for 2015. Revis is great, but is he so great that the Patriots want to spend $10 million more on him than the Cardinals are spending on Patrick Peterson, and $13 million more than the Seahawks are spending on Richard Sherman or the Browns are spending on Joe Haden?

Throw in the $9.6 million for McCourty and the $5.5 million for Browner, and the Patriots would be spending more than $40 million on three players in their secondary.
Last year the Packers paid more for defensive backs than any other team, at $26.6 million for the 11 players in their secondary. Do the Patriots really want to blow up their cap to such an extent that they’re paying $14 million more than that just for the top three players in their secondary?

Maybe they do. But if they do, it’s a departure from the Patriots’ longtime practice of emphasizing depth and spreading the wealth around their roster, rather than spending a lot of money on a few key players. The Patriots have some big, and potentially expensive, decisions to make by next week.

Click to expand...

You need to delete about 95% of that article. It violates copywrite laws.

JackBauer said:

How many teams' CB3/4/5 can successfully defend AJ Green?

At minimum, Ryan deserves a shot at safety if he doesn't show improvement at corner. I know several posters have argued (correctly, IMO) that his skill set is a better fit at the former than at the latter.

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That's my take as well. I think his strengths and weaknesses mirror McCourty's.

JackBauer said:

How many teams' CB3/4/5 can successfully defend AJ Green?

At minimum, Ryan deserves a shot at safety if he doesn't show improvement at corner. I know several posters have argued (correctly, IMO) that his skill set is a better fit at the former than at the latter.

Click to expand...

I don't think many could but I was asked for examples of him getting targeted/burned and that was a glaring one. I'm all for shifting him to safety and seeing if it works, but at the same time how much time would be invested into seeing if that works? 1 season, 2?