Seriously...why is it taking so long?

There's no way Goodie fines the Pats without evidence, he'll have all the facts and know what really caused the lower psi. Some people will cry that Goodies in Krafts back pocket but no matter what he decides one sector won't be happy.

I guess I'm simply not understanding why people seem to be taking it for granted that Goodell will suddenly and out of nowhere start displaying competency.

rlcarr said:

I guess I'm simply not understanding why people seem to be taking it for granted that Goodell will suddenly and out of nowhere start displaying competency.

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Because the most powerful owner in the league will take him to task for his bull**** this time. And there is no way, no chance in hell, he could argue wrong doing when the literal Universal Laws of Thermodynamics say otherwise. He can pretend he never saw the Ray Rice elevator tape and skate by because how could we prove otherwise. In this case he and everyone is now well aware about football thermodynamics.

rlcarr said:

I guess I'm simply not understanding why people seem to be taking it for granted that Goodell will suddenly and out of nowhere start displaying competency.

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Self preservation. When you are clinging n to your 44 million dollar a year job you don't turn your biggest supporter and one of the league's most powerful owners into your enemy, especially when you literally have to make sh.t up to do so. I get where your coming from in terms of the desire of many football fans across America to lynch Belichick, Brady, and the Patriots, but Goodell would be much better off disappointing the swinging party and treating the Patriots fairly than he would seriously pissing off Bob Kraft any more than he already has.

I also think that Kraft was being very specific in his use of language when he said in his Super Bowl press conference that "this is not how you treat a partner, " which to me was making very clear who works for who.

Let's assume for a minute that Goodell issues something, ANYthing less than a complete exoneration, with the unequivocal statement that "all the pressure drop was due to the temperature difference."

There are 10s of thousands of engineers & engineering students who can run the experiments themselves. Just like I did. Just like the HeadSmart people did. And get QUANTITATIVE answers that proves the temp did it.

Or, let's assume that Kraft has the equipment managers prepare an EXTRA 12 balls for the next cold weather game. These will NOT be used for the game, but they will sit in identical bags right alongside the game balls. Exposed at every second to exactly the same conditions as the game balls.

Kraft sets up the whole thing with some TV station (anybody EXCEPT Geraldo please!), who films it all, so no hanky-panky is possible. Then, at half time, in front of the camera, he has the pressure measured in test each, and they end up 2 to 3 psi below their set point.

The media in general (with a very few exceptions) don't really hate the Patriots. They simply LOVE a good lynching. They literally don't care who gets lynched, as long as it gory & generates copy.

They'll lynch ANYBODY. Including Goodell, Wells, the NFL, etc.

Would you hang YOUR credibility this far out on this fragile, 90% sawn-thru limb, when there are 100s of guys around with chain-saws??

Goodell may be a lot of things, but I don't think that he, or Wells, are THIS stupid.

As I have said previously, if they wanted to exonerate the Pats, they could have done it within 24 hours based on the scientific rationale. After all the displays of incompetence in the past year Goodell can not afford to look anymore weak or ridiculous in the eyes of the media or public. A never mind resolution to this witch hunt would certainly convey that message. While Kraft allegedly has some influence although its never been demonstrated given the way the Pats have been treated, the power is really with Rooney and Mara. Even Bisconti, the owner of the Ratbirds has more influence. He got Goodell to initially give Rice a slap on the risk before the film came out.

flasox27 said:

As I have said previously, if they wanted to exonerate the Pats, they could have done it within 24 hours based on the scientific rationale. After all the displays of incompetence in the past year Goodell can not afford to look anymore weak or ridiculous in the eyes of the media or public. A never mind resolution to this witch hunt would certainly convey that message. While Kraft allegedly has some influence although its never been demonstrated given the way the Pats have been treated, the power is really with Rooney and Mara. Even Bisconti, the owner of the Ratbirds has more influence. He got Goodell to initially give Rice a slap on the risk before the film came out.

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Disagree completely. If the investigation were solely about the pressure in the football's and they were looking to sanction the Patriots it would have been done long ago. The reason it has gone on so long is because they opened up a can of worms that brought in science, alternate theories on the Colts deflating the ball, collusion between members of the league office and the Colts, and outrageous n behavior by NFL employees involving game balls.

And as far as Kraft's standing among owners it has changed dramatically since they were sanctioned in 2007. He was lauded nationally as The Man Who Saved Football by owners and players alike, was a key,member of the Committee that arranged the monster TV deal, and was the only owner in football to,come out and publicly give support to Goodell when the buzzards were circling overhead. Krafts power is as it's highest and it is Goodell who is at his weakest, and the last person he can afford to alienate is Bob Kraft.

tom.kordis said:

It never occurred to these idiots that the people who wrote those regulations might be clueless idiots too.

Well, it's going to occur to them all pretty damn soon.

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I agree with almost everything you say, however, I also agree with rlcarr that it's up to Goodell's discretion to take what Columbia has reported to Wells, and what Wells has reported to Goodell, and come to a decision with it. I have so little trust in Goodell's decision making, that I assume he is probably going to find a way to slap the Patriots on the wrist for a technicality. As rlcarr stated, the mere fact that the balls were under, and the fact that Goodell probably has a warped interpretation of the rule, are enough for the agent of chaos that is the NFL commissioner to come down on the Pats.

And in terms of the court of public opinion, sadly I take a depressing view on that, too. As you said - the exonerating evidence is out there in the open, but that has done the Patriots little good from a PR perspective.

I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but for now, I'll bank on stupidity continuing to win out.

Ivan said:

Disagree completely. If the investigation were solely about the pressure in the football's and they were looking to sanction the Patriots it would have been done long ago. The reason it has gone on so long is because they opened up a can of worms that brought in science, alternate theories on the Colts deflating the ball, collusion between members of the league office and the Colts, and outrageous n behavior by NFL employees involving game balls.

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I really want to agree with this 100%. My only concern is that if the investigation has moved away from the Patriots, why hasn't the NFL announced this so the Patriots can know where they stand. Especially because there have been threats/reports in the media of the Patriots losing draft picks if found guilty. I guess it is possible that Kraft and BB are being informed privately...Who knows? I just want to get an answer soon.

I really think the issue of an NFL employee stealing game balls intended for charity, including a ball involved in the rotation of football's in that game, changed the situation dramatically and subsequently changed the course of the investigation.

Ivan said:

I really think the issue of an NFL employee stealing game balls intended for charity, including a ball involved in the rotation of football's in that game, changed the situation dramatically and subsequently changed the course of the investigation.

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I hope you are right but your premise is predicated upon the integrity and ability of the POS commissioner and his handpicked investigator to make an unpopular decision in exonerating the Pats. There is nothing in his history as commissioner that reflects those traits or any loyalty to those that supported him wholeheartedly in the Rice fiasco like Kraft., Goodell and the Jet's alumni club running the NFL have done nothing but slap the Jets on the wrist for the multitude of violations they committed like tripping the opposing player and previous tampering incidents. While Goodell may have mistakenly thought that Kraft would be willing to roll over again, he certainly isn't concerned enough about his relationship with Kraft to rule on an open and shut case of tampering by his beloved Jets against the Pats, instead letting the witch hunt continue with continuing detrimental leaks coming from his office. . As for the legitimacy of the investigation, Goodell is the one signing the checks for Wells whose firm does a lot of business with the NFL and would like to keep the client. In the end this does become a true test between Kraft and the Jet's alumni club running the NFL and I am not putting my money on Kraft.

flasox27 said:

I hope you are right but your premise is predicated upon the integrity and ability of the POS commissioner and his handpicked investigator to make an unpopular decision in exonerating the Pats. There is nothing in his history as commissioner that reflects those traits or any loyalty to those that supported him wholeheartedly in the Rice fiasco like Kraft., Goodell and the Jet's alumni club running the NFL have done nothing but slap the Jets on the wrist for the multitude of violations they committed like tripping the opposing player and previous tampering incidents. While Goodell may have mistakenly thought that Kraft would be willing to roll over again, he certainly isn't concerned enough about his relationship with Kraft to rule on an open and shut case of tampering by his beloved Jets against the Pats, instead letting the witch hunt continue with continuing detrimental leaks coming from his office. . As for the legitimacy of the investigation, Goodell is the one signing the checks for Wells whose firm does a lot of business with the NFL and would like to keep the client. In the end this does become a true test between Kraft and the Jet's alumni club running the NFL and I am not putting my money on Kraft.

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Actually my premise isn't based upon the integrity, decency, or competency of Roger Goodell, it's based upon what I believe is the truth as well common sense regarding the rule in question. I believe the Patriots submitted their game balls at the low end of permissible PSI and the ref signed off on them. I don't believe there was any tampering with them because Brady had already approved them and the 90 second window in the bathroom was simply a piss break and not mission impossible ball deflation. The game balls are under the 12.5 mark at the half because of mother nature, nothing else. Simply put there is no evidence whatsoever that the Patriots ever tampered with the balls and I don't believe Ted Wells will risk his reputation to lie for the NFL, regardless of the work they do for them.

As for the logical aspect of this I don't believe any team can be responsible for air pressure in game balls when they aren't allowed to either monitor them or alter them.

The game balls were never documented at any point before, during, or after the game, so there is no way to actually prove anything related to the air pressure in them.

Chain of custody with the balls is beyond questionable and the one ESPN accused MacNally of trying to introduce illegally had been stolen by an NFL employee only to be belatedly returned when the thief realized they were looking for it. He gave it to MacNally who not knowing of its travels handed it to an alternate official . There is no way the NFL can sanction the Patriots for the state of the footballs when they really have no idea of where they were or who was in control of them during the game.

Ivan, excellent post. A couple of comments...

Ivan said:

Actually my premise isn't based upon the integrity, decency, or competency of Roger Goodell, it's based upon what I believe is the truth as well common sense regarding the rule in question.

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Correct. The truth about something this trivially simple is impossible to suppress or deny.

Ivan said:

The game balls are under the 12.5 mark at the half because of mother nature, nothing else.

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The fact that the pressure dropped because of temperature is interesting, but not compelling.

The fact that they dropped by EXACTLY THE CORRECT AMOUNT required by that specific change in temperature, as proven by both theory & experiment, is convincing & compelling proof that "temperature alone dunnit", and nobody else did anything to the balls.

Ivan said:

Simply put there is no evidence whatsoever that the Patriots ever tampered with the balls ...

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Too understated.

The amount of the pressure drop proves that the Pats DID NOT tamper with the balls.

Ivan said:

... and I don't believe Ted Wells will risk his reputation to lie for the NFL, regardless of the work they do for them.

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Exactly right. This is a relatively insignificant blip on his resume.

Ivan said:

As for the logical aspect of this I don't believe any team can be responsible for air pressure in game balls when they aren't allowed to either monitor them or alter them.

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Excellent point.

Neither can the teams rescind, revise or amend the laws of nature.

Ivan said:

The game balls were never documented at any point before, during, or after the game, so there is no way to actually prove anything related to the air pressure in them.

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There is no way to prove anything related to the ball pressure in the past.

It is trivially easy to prove the changes in the ball pressure vs. temp in the future.

Another reason that Wells & the NFL will not try any shenanigans.

tom.kordis said:

Ivan, excellent post. A couple of comments...



Correct. The truth about something this trivially simple is impossible to suppress or deny.



The fact that the pressure dropped because of temperature is interesting, but not compelling.

The fact that they dropped by EXACTLY THE CORRECT AMOUNT required by that specific change in temperature, as proven by both theory & experiment, is convincing & compelling proof that "temperature alone dunnit", and nobody else did anything to the balls.



Too understated.

The amount of the pressure drop proves that the Pats DID NOT tamper with the balls.



Exactly right. This is a relatively insignificant blip on his resume.



Excellent point.

Neither can the teams rescind, revise or amend the laws of nature.



There is no way to prove anything related to the ball pressure in the past.

It is trivially easy to prove the changes in the ball pressure vs. temp in the future.

Another reason that Wells & the NFL will not try any shenanigans.

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I think you and Ivan have put things in proper perspective and pretty much have it down pat.

So, I think after all of the comments in this section.........the title for this post is all that's left:

SERIOUSLY......WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG???????

I still say the report comes out Friday the 13th

Millions of $. For this.

Sounds like someone who was paid by the hour to mow a lawn and decided to use scissors.

Ivan said:

I really think the issue of an NFL employee stealing game balls intended for charity, including a ball involved in the rotation of football's in that game, changed the situation dramatically and subsequently changed the course of the investigation.

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With that, it technically veered into one piece of the story becoming a criminal investigation.

Make no mistake, what Scott Miller is alleged to have done is a crime.

flasox27 said:

As I have said previously, if they wanted to exonerate the Pats, they could have done it within 24 hours based on the scientific rationale. After all the displays of incompetence in the past year Goodell can not afford to look anymore weak or ridiculous in the eyes of the media or public. A never mind resolution to this witch hunt would certainly convey that message. While Kraft allegedly has some influence although its never been demonstrated given the way the Pats have been treated, the power is really with Rooney and Mara. Even Bisconti, the owner of the Ratbirds has more influence. He got Goodell to initially give Rice a slap on the risk before the film came out.

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WHAT????

Rooney and Mara may come CLOSE to the power Kraft has.

Bisciotti is not even in the same zip code.

When Kraft said the lockout/strike was over, it ended.

Also, Kraft IS the NFL Television Committee and the NFL Television Committee IS the NFL. There is no other more powerful engine for the NFL than the television contracts. Everything else is bread and circus.

While everyone is worried about deflated footballs and cell phones, here's some advice:

Follow the Money!

Pay attention to Kraft's buddy Les Moonves and CBS buying the NFL Network.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/03/inside-blitz-cbs-inching-closer-to-buying-part-of-nfl-network/

farn said:

Millions of $. For this.

Sounds like someone who was paid by the hour to mow a lawn and decided to use scissors.

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I would think Wells and co. Have more balls in the air (pun intended) than just this investigation, then again it May be complete and Rogers waiting for a Fri when the ncaa tourney is playing to release it so as few people as possible are paying attention.
I think other than us Pats fans less and less people are caring about this at this point.

shmessy said:

WHAT????

Rooney and Mara may come CLOSE to the power Kraft has.

Bisciotti is not even in the same zip code.

When Kraft said the lockout/strike was over, it ended.

Also, Kraft IS the NFL Television Committee and the NFL Television Committee IS the NFL. There is no other more powerful engine for the NFL than the television contracts. Everything else is bread and circus.

While everyone is worried about deflated footballs and cell phones, here's some advice:

Follow the Money!

Pay attention to Kraft's buddy Les Moonves and CBS buying the NFL Network.

http://thebiglead.com/2015/02/03/inside-blitz-cbs-inching-closer-to-buying-part-of-nfl-network/

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Let me just state that if Kraft had any influence or power, there never would have been any investigation in the first place. It would have been handled like the case of Bisciotti lying to Goodell about Ray Rice and the Jets tampering case with no leaks and no witch hunt.While Kraft is on the committee negotiating with CBS, does anybody believe that CBS would not negotiate with anyone else. By the way, ABC and ESPN have contracts with the NFL and I don't see them showing any respect to Kraft in their coverage of the witch hunt. You may think that Bisciotti has no influence with his golfing buddy Goodell, but the facts speak differently. Goodell was going to suspend Rice for only two games which is less than for smoking pot until the tape surfaced. Compare that to the penalties for wrong placement of a camera. Getting back to the essence of the socalled investigation conducted by Goodell's hand pickede investigator, I f there was going to be an exoneration based on the scientific explanation, that information would have been made weeks ago We shall see what the end result is eventually. I am not betting on the facts or Kraft's influence wining