Edelman fake slant spin move

The Brandon Five said:

Isn't that allowed within five yards?

Watching it again it looks like Simon got away with hands to the face.

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No, a receiver can't push off to gain separation by fully extending his arms anywhere. Certain contact is allowed.

TBR said:

Simon made a TON of contact with Edelman and his face/helmet too.

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It was within five yards. But there probably is a case for hands to the face.

UK_Pat37 said:

No, a receiver can't push off to gain separation by fully extending his arms anywhere. Certain contact is allowed.

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Certain contact like fighting to get a arm off you as Simon was trying to get on Edelman, simply beating the press coverage that he was in.

Back to the OPs point Edelman runs it better than pretty much anyone because he has such amazing change of direction ablity. That coupled with his outstanding work ethic have allowed him to become a very good WR.

I'll never forget the Baltimore playoff game at Gillette where everyone had given up on the game and he kept fighting.

Welker ran that route well. Jules runs it to perfection AND makes it look good. You'd be hard pressed to find a receiver more agile than JE11. That's why it looks so unusual and original.

rlcarr said:

I disagree. The rules for DPI and OPI are different. DPI rules only apply only once the ball has been thrown. OPI rules apply from the moment of the snap. See Rule 8 Section 5 Article 1.

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But it's not OPI if it's within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. Then he can just be considered a blocker.

1960Pats said:

Some people have different reasons for being an idiot.

Edelman clearly gave the DB a good stiff arm to the right shoulder as he reversed direction. It was a great cut and perfect pass, but it was helped by the push off.

I noticed the one on Matthews also. Apparently, my glasses aren't tinted completely blue like yours.

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Oh so you are one of those posters that has to show he isn't a homer while calling others the same thing.

#1- It came after Simon illegal used hands to Edelman's facemask.

#2- Edelman fought off Simon's press within 1 yard of the LOS. Refs aren't gonna call that at all because it's not a penalty.

Ken Canin said:

Does someone have a list of players and plays in the last several years who have done that fake slant spin move Edelman used twice in the SB.

I'm curious whether any other receivers do it as well. Did Welker use it? Who can defend it?

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I bet Russell Wilson wishes Ricardo Lockette had that in his repertoire.

Wheelman said:

But it's not OPI if it's within 1 yard of the line of scrimmage. Then he can just be considered a blocker.

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The TD Edelman scored was from 3 yards out so in the end zone would be OPI if he initiates the contact to gain separation. There was no flag so all is well.

Batman said:

The TD Edelman scored was from 3 yards out so in the end zone would be OPI if he initiates the contact to gain separation. There was no flag so all is well.

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Ya no flag because the LOS was the 3, the contact between Edelman and Simon came when Edelman was just inside the 2 yard line.

Julian Edelman = Michael Jordan
Tharold Simon = Bryon Russell

UK_Pat37 said:

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

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I was holding my breath too as well. Depending on the angle of the replay, it looked like Edelman pushed/stiff-armed himself some separation.

Thankfully for the Patriots, the referees didn't see/call it that way.

Casanova Frankenstein said:

I was holding my breath too as well. Depending on the angle of the replay, it looked like Edelman pushed/stiff-armed himself some separation.

Thankfully for the Patriots, the referees didn't see/call it that way.

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There was a little shoving both ways, but that's how it works in today's NFL. Pretty much half of all route separation these days stems from these seemingly innocuous pushes, shirt tugs and arm bars just within "the flow of normal play", that in reality are well-timed, practiced and orchestrated momentum transfers to help create space if all works to plan and the refs see it the same way.

I was a bit worried. But if the 1 yd rule was in effect, that explains it. Except for the CB *****ing.

AS far as the CB beothching on every play for OPI, it's probably a good move strategically. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all.... Look at this case, because he complained vocally for all to see, people still think it might been OPI even if it was impossible at less than 1yd. Sadly players really do have to sell it a bit for best effect. Jeez, think if Gronk actively let the refs KNOW whenever he was being mugged, by you know, maybe, slowing down slightly or something

pdangle said:

There was a little shoving both ways, but that's how it works in today's NFL. Pretty much half of all route separation these days stems from these seemingly innocuous pushes, shirt tugs and arm bars just within "the flow of normal play", that in reality are well-timed, practiced and orchestrated momentum transfers to help create space if all works to plan and the refs see it the same way.

I was a bit worried. But if the 1 yd rule was in effect, that explains it. Except for the CB *****ing.

AS far as the CB beothching on every play for OPI, it's probably a good move strategically. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all.... Look at this case, because he complained vocally for all to see, people still think it might been OPI even if it was impossible at less than 1yd. Sadly players really do have to sell it a bit for best effect. Jeez, think if Gronk actively let the refs KNOW whenever he was being mugged, by you know, maybe, slowing down slightly or something

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I completely overlooked that, lol. That changes my view of the play then.

UK_Pat37 said:

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

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The way to defend that in press coverage is to move forward at the snap and really jam the receiver to get him out of his route and force the QB to look for his next read.

goheels22002 said:

The way to defend that in press coverage is to move forward at the snap and really jam the receiver to get him out of his route and force the QB to look for his next read.

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Wouldn't this effectively thwart every route.

Edelman pushed off, but considering how handsy Simon was playing, it wasn't excessive and rightfully wasn't flagged.

pdangle said:

Wouldn't this effectively thwart every route.

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No. Situational football. It depends on the receiver, the defensive back, down and distance.

Do you think press coverage on Gronk when he's in the slot or out wide makes any sense? He'd blow by a linebacker or throw a DB to the ground and run to the open spot.

You might bump and run with a player like Moss or Dez Bryant, but press coverage with them is dangerous business.

In the case of 2nd and 3 with 5'10", 195 Julian Edelman split wide, that's exactly what you do, and you do it aggressively. Your CB is going to be Edelman's physical equal or bigger, and you take him away. Tharold Simon - #27 for Seattle - is 6'3", 202 and should have manhandled Edelman for a couple of counts without holding him right there. Edelman beat him fair and square.

I was worried there might be a flag, but the way the game was being called there was no way they were flagging that. The refs did a good job of letting them play for the most part, and Seattle had more than their fair share of non-PI plays which might have been flagged earlier in the season.

The previous time Edelman ran that route near the goalline (and Brady missed him with the pass) was even a better example of JE's quickness - no push off at all on that one, and the DB was completely turned around. You'd think the guy would have learned after getting burned so badly once, but apparently not

Marinlik said:

It's a route that we have used a lot, it's called pivot route.
Here is Amendola running it for us.

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The Game Rewind video is much, much better and lets me see the footwork more than the youtube video.

For future reference: the Amendola play occurs at 3:25 in Q4 of the Patriots-Jets, week 16, 2014. The Edelman play occurs, of course, at 2:06 in Q4 of the Super Bowl.

I've looked at the Amendola and Edelman plays several times in slow motion on Game Rewind. Unfortunately, I don't quite know how to post that here. But anyway, some differences:

(1) Edelman pivot is quicker than Amendola's.

(2) Amendola seems to use mainly his right foot to do the pivot. He kind of swings his body and left foot around both before and after the right foot has been planted. The Amendola pivot is a much more prolonged and fluid process than the Edelman pivot.

(3) By contrast, Edelman seems to plant both feet, then use both feet to pivot, while keeping his body and feet aligned.

(4) possibly Edelman is crouching more, not sure.

(5) The Amendola play looks "normal" (I mean, for a top NFL receiver!) somehow. Edelman seems to almost break the laws of physics. Pivotgate?

pdangle said:

There was a little shoving both ways, but that's how it works in today's NFL. Pretty much half of all route separation these days stems from these seemingly innocuous pushes, shirt tugs and arm bars just within "the flow of normal play", that in reality are well-timed, practiced and orchestrated momentum transfers to help create space if all works to plan and the refs see it the same way.

I was a bit worried. But if the 1 yd rule was in effect, that explains it. Except for the CB *****ing.

AS far as the CB beothching on every play for OPI, it's probably a good move strategically. Squeaky wheel gets the grease and all.... Look at this case, because he complained vocally for all to see, people still think it might been OPI even if it was impossible at less than 1yd. Sadly players really do have to sell it a bit for best effect. Jeez, think if Gronk actively let the refs KNOW whenever he was being mugged, by you know, maybe, slowing down slightly or something

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Speaking as a referee for soccer, constant *****ing on easy no calls makes me tell the player to put on his big boy pants as I am not seeing a foul but I am seeing a weight room issue.

If I get a lot of constructive feedback on a close in call, then that could be advantageous to the player asking for a call as he makes me think about where the marginal contact turns into a foul

Ken Canin said:

The Game Rewind video is much, much better and lets me see the footwork more than the youtube video.

For future reference: the Amendola play occurs at 3:25 in Q4 of the Patriots-Jets, week 16, 2014. The Edelman play occurs, of course, at 2:06 in Q4 of the Super Bowl.

I've looked at the Amendola and Edelman plays several times in slow motion on Game Rewind. Unfortunately, I don't quite know how to post that here. But anyway, some differences:

(1) Edelman pivot is quicker than Amendola's.

(2) Amendola seems to use mainly his right foot to do the pivot. He kind of swings his body and left foot around both before and after the right foot has been planted. The Amendola pivot is a much more prolonged and fluid process than the Edelman pivot.

(3) By contrast, Edelman seems to plant both feet, then use both feet to pivot, while keeping his body and feet aligned.

(4) possibly Edelman is crouching more, not sure.

(5) The Amendola play looks "normal" (I mean, for a top NFL receiver!) somehow. Edelman seems to almost break the laws of physics. Pivotgate?

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I'm not seeing what you are seeing.



At 0:10.5 Julian clearly plants and starts pivoting on his right foot. The left foot is basically a balance tap that has nothing to do with the move he is making. He doesn't even plant it long enough to thrust off of, that's also done entirely with his right leg.

It's a really nice play - a championship play as Tom said - but it's nothing 2007 Welker couldn't do in his sleep (or Troy Brown.... or Wayne Chrebet....).