Seriously...why is it taking so long?

PatsWickedPissah said:

Since then he has been paralyzed into inaction since Wells is not finished and Kraft put him on notice (1) via his press comments pre-SB and (2) his ice cold stare at Roger when receiving the Lombardi.

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Agree with almost everything here PWP - except its worth noting that I believe the timing of it was that Wells was involved right from Sunday night. If you read the NFL's initial statement, it seems to say as much (though not definitively. It says "the investigation began" and then implies Wells' group was there from the start.)

Which mean Wells oughta get lumped into the same group of people that never considered a natural depressurization of the ball, too. Which, unfortunately, is a scary thought for us - but at least we know Columbia was, ultimately, consulted.

Combined with the recent information that Wells has kept the league in the dark from day one, I think it also reinforces that initial leaks coming from the "league" were obviously really coming from Kensil and/or similar people in the league office that dislike the Pats. And said leaks were sourced from whatever initial information Kensil felt oughta launch the investigation. Which, if said info included compelling evidence against the Patriots, the investigation would've concluded in 2-3 days as initially suggested.

Another week about to in the books and no new news or decision in sight. I want this thing done.

Pats_AZ said:

Another week about to in the books and no new news or decision in sight. I want this thing done.

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Maybe they try one of their infamous Fri 5:00 PM press releases, stating that:

"Following a complete investigation, no wrong doing was found to have occurred. The NFL apologizes to all that were inconvienenced throughout this process. We are committed to maintain our policy of high standards throughout all facets of our league, as the integrity of the game remains our utmost priority."

fgssand said:

Maybe they try one of their infamous Fri 5:00 PM press releases, stating that:

"Following a complete investigation, no wrong doing was found to have occurred. The NFL apologizes to all that were inconvienenced throughout this process. We are committed to maintain our policy of high standards throughout all facets of our league, as the integrity of the game remains our utmost priority."

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If you started a new thread and referred to that statement as the decision, I'd believe it.

BradyManny said:

Agree with almost everything here PWP - except its worth noting that I believe the timing of it was that Wells was involved right from Sunday night. If you read the NFL's initial statement, it seems to say as much (though not definitively. It says "the investigation began" and then implies Wells' group was there from the start.)

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I don't know about that. A Friday, 23 January WSJ blog post says the following:

WSJ said:

The National Football League on Friday said it has appointed Manhattan attorney Theodore V. Wells Jr. to get to the bottom of “Deflategate,” the burgeoning controversy over whether the New England Patriots illegally altered footballs for last Sunday’s AFC Championship Game.

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http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/01/23/nfl-taps-attorney-ted-wells-to-lead-deflategate-probe/

That doesn't read like Wells started on Sunday.

If you look at the NFL statement which was released on the 23rd, it says:

NFL said:

The investigation is being led jointly by NFL Executive Vice President Jeff Pash and Ted Wells of the law firm of Paul Weiss. Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. The investigation began promptly on Sunday night.

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...-of-balls-in-afc-title-game-led-by-pash-wells

While that does say the investigation started the same day as the game, I don't interpret that as obviously implying that Wells started on Sunday. Sure, at the time of the statement Wells was a co-leader of the investigation. But that says nothing about the very start of the investigation.

rlcarr said:

While that does say the investigation started the same day as the game, I don't interpret that as obviously implying that Wells started on Sunday. Sure, at the time of the statement Wells was a co-leader of the investigation. But that says nothing about the very start of the investigation.

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Fair point - that seems like a reasonable interpretation. In which case @PatsWickedPissah is even more right above.

One other thing I noticed in that Jan 23rd statement:

NFL said:

The investigation began based on information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules, specifically Playing Rule 2, Section 1, which requires that the ball be inflated to between 12.5 and 13.5 pounds per square inch. Prior to the game, the game officials inspect the footballs to be used by each team and confirm that this standard is satisfied, which was done before last Sunday's game.

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Given that the NFL's claim in the statement was that the balls were OK pre-game, the NFL is in fact claiming that the potential problem is that the balls did not meet the Rule 2, Section 1 specification during the game. In other words, the NFL believes that Rule 2, Section 1 does apply during the game, not just before the game. And this is why I think (as I've said before) that Goodell will fine NE even if they find out nothing else.

Well unless there's a press dump tonight at closing hours it looks like another week of nothing. At least last week we had the hilarity of the charity ball scandal. This week was just a whole lot of nothing. Again.

rlcarr said:

One other thing I noticed in that Jan 23rd statement:


Given that the NFL's claim in the statement was that the balls were OK pre-game, the NFL is in fact claiming that the potential problem is that the balls did not meet the Rule 2, Section 1 specification during the game. In other words, the NFL believes that Rule 2, Section 1 does apply during the game, not just before the game. And this is why I think (as I've said before) that Goodell will fine NE even if they find out nothing else.

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Wow. You are probably spot-on, but that is just amazing if Goodell does that. There's been almost 15,000 NFL games, and I would guess off the top of my head that in about a quarter of them, balls were played with that were under spec by halftime. So let's say almost 4000 games have violated Rule 2, section 1. Once Goodell rules as you suggest, only one of those 4000 games, and one of those teams, will have actually seen the balls get checked at halftime, and a team punished. Has anyone in the history of mankind been worse at seeing the forest through the trees than the knucklehead currently running the NFL?

Kraft will have to continue to be pro-active. I actually think Belichick was 100% right in his interpretation of the spy gate rules and Goodell was the one re-writing the rules for his benefit. Kraft let that go for the benefit of Goodell and the league. If that happens again here, the Pats can't just bend over and take it this time around.

It's very possible that Kensil was leading the in-house investigation from Sunday night until sometime on Thursday when Belichick held his first press conference on the matter. Kensil would have been the guy telling Troy Vincent that week that the investigation would be all wrapped up "in a few days".

At around the same time - either Wednesday night or Thursday morning, I'm willing to bet that Kraft (not the kindly grandfather Bob, but the sonuva***** you want on your side in times like these Lawyer Jonathan) went nuclear to the league about Kensil and what the Patriots had on the whole thing - including Scott Miller.

Next day - voila - Ted Wells is now on the case!

Anyone who looks at the timeline can see clearly that Wells was REPLACING the original in-house investigation.

There must have been a catalyst/reason.

shmessy said:

Next day - voila - Ted Wells is now on the case!

Anyone who looks at the timeline can see clearly that Wells was REPLACING the original in-house investigation.

There must have been a catalyst/reason.

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Good post, thanks to you & @rlcarr for clearing this up. Makes a ton of sense and adds another layer of intrigue to this whole thing.

rlcarr said:

One other thing I noticed in that Jan 23rd statement:


Given that the NFL's claim in the statement was that the balls were OK pre-game, the NFL is in fact claiming that the potential problem is that the balls did not meet the Rule 2, Section 1 specification during the game. In other words, the NFL believes that Rule 2, Section 1 does apply during the game, not just before the game. And this is why I think (as I've said before) that Goodell will fine NE even if they find out nothing else.

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Once again I say that were that gobsmacking idiocy to happen, Kraft should make an utter fool of Goodell as it is PROVABLY not possible for an NFL football checked to be at 12.5 psi at locker room temperature remain above that minimum during a game where temperatures are 50 degrees (START of AFCCG).
Fine a team because the NFL's product obeys the Ideal Gas Law?

BradyManny said:

Which, if said info included compelling evidence against the Patriots, the investigation would've concluded in 2-3 days as initially suggested.

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And, if there were 100% conclusive proof that the Pats did nothing to the balls - AS THERE IS! - then the investigation should have concluded in 1 - 2 days. IF the idiots running the investigation had bothered to consult with people who know what they're talking about.

But they did NOT consult with knowledgeable people before running their mouth to reporters.

Who took their nonsense & ran with it.

I've seen this dozens of times: company business guys who THINK that they understand the technical issues that the engineers deal with daily.

Here, it's "I'm an NFL official. OF COURSE I understand what the pressure should be in a football. It says so right there in the regulations."

It never occurred to these idiots that the people who wrote those regulations might be clueless idiots too.

Well, it's going to occur to them all pretty damn soon.

BTW, I get a sense from some posters that the Wells' conclusions can be "whatever the league wants them to be." This could not be further from the truth.

This isn't like some trial with subjective, conflicting testimony, and one can just decide which person to believe.

This is Mother Nature, who is consistent & unyielding.

ANYONE can run the experiments to figure all this out for themselves.

If the NFL comes out with anything except "The temperature change explains ALL the pressure loss", then the NFL & Wells will look like lying, incompetent buffoons.

That is money in the bank.

I hope all those idiots in the media are preparing their apologies.
Somehow, I think that they'll be less than whole-heartedly sincere...

rlcarr said:

One other thing I noticed in that Jan 23rd statement:


Given that the NFL's claim in the statement was that the balls were OK pre-game, the NFL is in fact claiming that the potential problem is that the balls did not meet the Rule 2, Section 1 specification during the game. In other words, the NFL believes that Rule 2, Section 1 does apply during the game, not just before the game. And this is why I think (as I've said before) that Goodell will fine NE even if they find out nothing else.

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The only people the NFL can hold responsible for ball pressure during games are the referees, not the teams because the teams cannot test or alter the balls during games. The only claim the Patriots could have been held accountable for would be deliberately altering the balls after inspection and there is no evidence they did so. There is no way the Patriots will accept sanctions for something they have no responsibility for.

PatsWickedPissah said:

Once again I say that were that gobsmacking idiocy to happen, Kraft should make an utter fool of Goodell

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Oh, I totally agree with you. But what is Goodell's reign if not virtually nonstop "gobsmacking idiocy"?

tom.kordis said:

BTW, I get a sense from some posters that the Wells' conclusions can be "whatever the league wants them to be." This could not be further from the truth.

This isn't like some trial with subjective, conflicting testimony, and one can just decide which person to believe.

[snip]

If the NFL comes out with anything except "The temperature change explains ALL the pressure loss", then the NFL & Wells will look like lying, incompetent buffoons.

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Sadly, Goodell doesn't care about what you or I think. He cares primarily about what the owners think and he secondarily (to the extent it affects the primary) cares about what the media thinks.

The non-NE media (and even most of the NE media) wants the Patriots scalped. There's decent evidence that quite a few owners would like to see that, too.

If Goodell says "We did a very thorough investigation yet were unable to find evidence that NE tampered with the balls. However, since N balls were below 12.5 PSI and were therefore in violation of Playing Rule 2, Section 1, the Patriots will be fined $25,000 per ball", who besides NE fans and Kraft will really care? You'll have ESPN trumpeting headlines like NFL Couldn't Find Evidence of Patriot Cheating and/or Patriots Got Away With It and people like Breer saying how the fine proves they must have done something wrong, and Official League Mouthpiece and Shill Peter King how great Goodell's decision was because it makes it clear the NFL cares about the integrity of the game, and that will be the narrative. The narrative will not be "NFL & Wells are lying incompetent buffoons". Even if they are.

Sure, Kraft can (and should) go on the attack about it, but that'll just be dismissed by the national media as "Look, they were able to get away with it -- he should just shut up."

Does this all suck? Absolutely. But who exactly do you expect -- that matters and can affect the narrative -- will stick up for NE?

Ivan said:

There is no way the Patriots will accept sanctions for something they have no responsibility for.

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So Kraft says in effect "This is total BS and we don't accept it". Then what's supposed to happen?

rlcarr said:

So Kraft says in effect "This is total BS and we don't accept it". Then what's supposed to happen?

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Kraft refuses to accept the sanctions and goes to court against the league, just like Al Davis used to do. Additionally he starts rounding up all of the owners who are sick and tired of the way Goodell has run the league into the ground and gets Goodell fired.

Roger Goodell had,lost pretty much all of his authority, and the idea he will sanction,the Patriots,based upon pure fiction is ludicrous imo.

We will see who is right when this is done. My money is on the Patriots walking away from this with no sanctions at all. And if there is no apology someone else will be handing,Kraft,the Lombardi next February.

rlcarr said:

So Kraft says in effect "This is total BS and we don't accept it". Then what's supposed to happen?

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I really don't believe that is how this will play out. Imo Goodell would much rather go out and say that after an exhaustive investigation they found no evidence if wrongdoing than he would go out and say we have no evidence but we are fining the Patriots anyways, and by doing so make Bob Kraft his mortal enemy for life. Goodell is clinging to his job, he's not going to make one of the most powerful owners his mortal enemy.