Edelman fake slant spin move

Does someone have a list of players and plays in the last several years who have done that fake slant spin move Edelman used twice in the SB.

I'm curious whether any other receivers do it as well. Did Welker use it? Who can defend it?

Ken Canin said:

Does someone have a list of players and plays in the last several years who have done that fake slant spin move Edelman used twice in the SB.

I'm curious whether any other receivers do it as well. Did Welker use it? Who can defend it?

Click to expand...

It's a route that we have used a lot, it's called pivot route. Welker was good at it. Even if we more often used a regular quick out route just before the end zone and let him dive in, a route he was nearly unstoppable on. Amendola has ran it here too.

Here is Amendola running it for us.

Is Edelman putting some special touch on it? Or was Simon just unusually slow to react. The Edelman move just looked someone crisper, faster, maybe different footwork I don't know.

Thanks for the info btw.

Ken Canin said:

Is Edelman putting some special touch on it? Or was Simon just unusually slow to react. The Edelman move just looked someone crisper, faster, maybe different footwork I don't know.

Thanks for the info btw.

Click to expand...

Well first the corner played press coverage at the line, so that changes it up a bit, gives him less time to react and adjust to changes. Edelman did a good job of owning the contact at the line, with good hand usange and getting an inside release. The biggest problem in how the corner played it was that he completely sold out for an inside play(slant) by having his hips pointing inwards, towards the QB. So when Edelman spinned to the outside, while slapping the right shoulder of the CB and turning him even more to the inside, the CB was put completely out of position.

Ken Canin said:

Is Edelman putting some special touch on it? Or was Simon just unusually slow to react. The Edelman move just looked someone crisper, faster, maybe different footwork I don't know.

Thanks for the info btw.

Click to expand...

Edelman pushed off Simon with his left hand on the play. That helped.

1960Pats said:

Edelman pushed off Simon with his left hand on the play. That helped.

Click to expand...

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

UK_Pat37 said:

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

Click to expand...

Isn't that allowed within five yards?

Watching it again it looks like Simon got away with hands to the face.

Marinlik said:

Well first the corner played press coverage at the line, so that changes it up a bit, gives him less time to react and adjust to changes. Edelman did a good job of owning the contact at the line, with good hand usange and getting an inside release. The biggest problem in how the corner played it was that he completely sold out for an inside play(slant) by having his hips pointing inwards, towards the QB. So when Edelman spinned to the outside, while slapping the right shoulder of the CB and turning him even more to the inside, the CB was put completely out of position.

Click to expand...

Yup. Danny actually had less time and space to sell the fake since the defender hadn't bit so hard inside right off the bat. And even then, he created about the same amount of separation.

As for the OP, it's a common route, one that Welker was excellent at, which is why the rhetoric about how Wes couldn't have gotten open like that because it was "outside" was so absurd.

UK_Pat37 said:

The second one however was quite close.

Click to expand...

No, it wasn't. Contact is allowed withing 5 yards.

I'm just glad Ricardo Lockette doesn't employ this move

Its virtually impossible to defend these types pf routes with a good athlete in the slot and a QB like Brady who puts the ball on a dime. This is why slot receivers are not as valuable. You dont need a calvin johnson level athlete to get open on these routes. Its a much taller order to get open on the outside where the defender can use the sideline as leverage.

Something to consider on the question if Edelman pushed off or not on that play:

It's a small sample size, but based on watching Seattle's playoff games this year, Simon gave the "push off/OPI" signal any time the ball was thrown at "his" receiver and he didn't make a play on the ball. It didn't matter if the pass was uncatchable or the receiver couldn't make the catch, Simon was calling for OPI in every situation.

Anyone thinking Edelman pushed off is an idiot.

You want to see a push off go watch that 40 yard reception Matthews had in the 3rd quarter

Marqui said:

No, it wasn't. Contact is allowed withing 5 yards.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The rules for DPI and OPI are different. DPI rules only apply only once the ball has been thrown. OPI rules apply from the moment of the snap. See Rule 8 Section 5 Article 1.

UK_Pat37 said:

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

Click to expand...

Simon made a TON of contact with Edelman and his face/helmet too.

I think the refs in this game allowed a lot of contact and a not unreasonable amount of pushing off. When watching this play frame by frame, you can see a lot of contact and borderline pushing off by Edelman in order to deal with what Simon was doing to him. I think it would be great if the refs never called anything on that kind of interaction. It was funny, though, to watch the previous identical play where Edelman got open and Brady fired too high and too hard. Simon was complaining just as vociferously -- even more so -- and there was no push-off whatsoever.

The downside for the Patriots of this kind of officiating was the way that Matthews moved Arrington out of his way on the long pass down the sideline. But Arrington was going to have a tough time defending a pass that high, anyway.

Overall, I thought the officials did a much better job than was typical this past year. Many plays that could have been called that weren't.

UK_Pat37 said:

I held my breath on this one just a little bit. Simon complained about a push off on the first one...which quite frankly there wasn't one...he was just making excused for being beat like Adrian Peterson's son on that route.

The second one however was quite close. He fully extends the arm and, when you do that, you can't complain if a flag gets thrown on you. Personally, had the ref thrown that flag, I could have seen why. Simon was still being a whiny baby though; regardless of the ever -so-slight push-off, he was not recovering on that play. It's impossible to defend.

Click to expand...

That's the way I saw it too.

Back during a Brandon Browner debate on penalties earlier in the year, some here were talking about the refs letting them play in the playoffs. I'm glad that they were correct.

JMC00 said:

Anyone thinking Edelman pushed off is an idiot.

You want to see a push off go watch that 40 yard reception Matthews had in the 3rd quarter

Click to expand...

Some people have different reasons for being an idiot.

Edelman clearly gave the DB a good stiff arm to the right shoulder as he reversed direction. It was a great cut and perfect pass, but it was helped by the push off.

I noticed the one on Matthews also. Apparently, my glasses aren't tinted completely blue like yours.

Let's just be happy that Mr. Edelman is quick as a cat.