2015 NFL Veteran Cuts Thread

Ian · Feb 26, 2015

Deus Irae said:
I agree. Also, to make sure I'm not misunderstood on this, I don't have safety anywhere near the top of my version of the Patriots 'needs' list. As long as McCourty and Revis are on the field, this team can get away with a non-starting caliber safety against most teams.

I do find it more than a little interesting, though, that the Patriots basically had their same linebackers staying on the field in both base and nickel/dime type situations, and the specialization and substitution was at safety instead. It's a mad, mad, mad, mad world.

I've actually said that with those two around, I feel like you can put average talent around them in the secondary and they'll be O.K. Amazing what an impact those two have on this defense, and in my opinion they're the two keys heading into 2015...and hopefully beyond.

JMC00 · Feb 26, 2015

JarOfMayo51 said:
Vereen hasn't exactly been a model example of durability.. he basically got paid the first 2 years to sit in the ice tub

Absolutely not the case.

First year he was the 4th RB on the depth chart and behind Woodhead for that 3rd down back role. What happened to him was verbatim what happened to James White this year.

2nd year he was still behind Woodhead and only missed 3 games, the first 3 games of the season.

patfanken · Feb 26, 2015

\

Deus Irae said:
Yeah, it's too bad that he's had the foot issues. They can really stunt a player's growth (Demaryius Thomas had the same sort of problem in his first two seasons). He's shown flashes, but I just don't think you can count on him at this point, until he proves otherwise. I'd consider him essentially as the equivalent of a mid/low round flier guy, at this point, for roster purposes.

That's a good point about DThomas, DI. He had 760 yds over 2 seasons and 21 games to start his career, not that much better than the 550 in 16 games for Dobson. IF his feet are healthy, and he can participate in all the off season team activities, there is every reason to think that Dobson could compete for targets with the other WR's.

You see DI, I have a problem with the use of the term "you can't count on him". We all use it, but what does it mean. Look at last season's team. Before the season, could anyone say we could "count on" Lafell, Hightower, Stork, Connolly, Wendell, Chung, Collins, etc. If you had, you would have been laughed at and rightfully so. Did anyone think that before the playoffs, Danny Amendola would be one of the most productive receivers in the entire playoffs

Of course logic dictates that we can't "COUNT ON" Dobson next season, but that doesn't mean he won't produce. Every season you need to have at LEAST a half dozen guys who you didn't count on, to come through for you, if you are gong to have a successful season. It's just the nature of the game. Next season it could be Dobson or Tyms, Buchannan, or Easly. TWilson, or Ryan, or maybe all of them or none of them. Hell, before last season, you couldn't even count on Gronk.

I find so many pe0ple casually dismiss players all the time, and so many times these players end up becoming indispensable. You just don't know, so "absolute" statements of evaluation should probably be softened in their stridency

Ian · Feb 26, 2015

patfanken said:
That's a good point about DThomas, DI. He had 760 yds over 2 seasons and 21 games to start his career, not that much better than the 550 in 16 games for Dobson. IF his feet are healthy, and he can participate in all the off season team activities, there is every reason to think that Dobson could compete for targets with the other WR's.

You see DI, I have a problem with the use of the term "you can't count on him". We all use it, but what does it mean. Look at last season's team. Before the season, could anyone say we could "count on" Lafell, Hightower, Stork, Connolly, Wendell, Chung, Collins, etc. If you had, you would have been laughed at and rightfully so. Did anyone think that before the playoffs, Danny Amendola would be one of the most productive receivers in the entire playoffs

Of course logic dictates that we can't "COUNT ON" Dobson next season, but that doesn't mean he won't produce. Every season you need to have at LEAST a half dozen or more guys who you didn't count on, come through for you, if you are gong to have a successful season. It's just the nature of the game. Next season it could be Dobson or Tyms, Buchannan, or Easly. TWilson, or Ryan, or maybe all of them or none of them. Hell, before last season, you couldn't even count on Gronk.

I find so many pe0ple casually dismiss players all the time, and so many times these players end up becoming indispensable. You just don't know, so "absolute" statements of evaluation should probably be softened in their stridency

Amendola proved your point perfectly this season. From someone they "couldn't count on" in the passing game, to a reliable return man and a key producer down the stretch in the postseason and Super Bowl. Who would have thought?

patfanken · Feb 26, 2015

Ian said:
Amendola proved your point perfectly this season. From someone they "couldn't count on" in the passing game, to a reliable return man and a key producer down the stretch in the postseason and Super Bowl. Who would have thought?

And it's not just us. Every successful teams have a bunch of guys that came through for them during the season. Clearly many more came through than those who didn't.

pdangle · Feb 26, 2015

Reading the tea leaves of recent cuts, probable cuts, and a positional deep draft, IMO FA RB's or re-signs are NOT going to get the salary many were predicting start of FA. I'm officially revising my estimate of what it'll take for RBs like Vereen to sign, and projecting most in his situation will probably re-sign at a moderate numbers. In the last couple days, we've seen the last wave of the high priced RBs finally cut. And btw, were those teams behind the curve. It didn't take a crystal ball to see paying anything but the super elite RB big money was just not a winning strategy... even 3 years ago. These once top RBs were the first to the cutting block, and will only add to the competition for FA RB slots. The many fungible alternatives ripe for picking will really lower the price tag for any FA RB this off-season.

Deus Irae · Feb 26, 2015

patfanken said:
...You see DI, I have a problem with the use of the term "you can't count on him". We all use it, but what does it mean.

In this case, we'd be asking for something we've never seen out of Dobson. You can't count on that until you've seen it at least once. LaFell was coming off back-to-back 40+ catch seasons on a heavy run team with Steve Smith. Amendola's had 3 50+ catch seasons. Dobson has nothing approaching that sort of track record. Dobson's played 12 and 4 games, respectively, in his two seasons and, realistically, we're resting almost all of our hopes on two games in his rookie season.

That's fine for a 'project/flier' guy. That's not fine when you have a need to fill. I'm talking offseason needs/wants here, not in-season prayers. During the season, you sometimes have to count on players you don't trust for one reason or another. During the off season, you look to replace/augment such players. If you didn't, you wouldn't bother with a draft.

Bourne Again Christian · Feb 26, 2015

If Belichick can coach up Moss he can coach up Beckham.
I think we trade up for a receiver.

Ivan · Feb 26, 2015

ChrisR2223 said:
If Belichick can coach up Moss he can coach up Beckham.
I think we trade up for a receiver.

Huh?

Randy Moss had as good a football IQ as any WR in the NFL and was on the same page as Brady the moment n they n state playing together. There b was no "coaching up" necessary.

mgteich · Feb 26, 2015

Ivan said:
Huh?

Randy Moss had as good a football IQ as any WR in the NFL and was on the same page as Brady the moment n they n state playing together. There b was no "coaching up" necessary.

Agreed.

Randy Moss had more football smarts that any WR we've ever seen. He was one of the two best WR's of all time.

ausbacker · Feb 27, 2015

Ian said:
Amendola proved your point perfectly this season. From someone they "couldn't count on" in the passing game, to a reliable return man and a key producer down the stretch in the postseason and Super Bowl. Who would have thought?

After week 4, I was wondering if it was time to:

Trade Brady for a pretty penny
Shoot McDaniels out of a cannon into the Atlantic
Force Patricia to audition for Rocket City Rednecks, &
Waterboard Belichick.

It's easy to forget but every season is a story being written. They take turns, they have highs and lows and sometimes, just sometimes, the heroes are people you've written off. I know I can be guilty of the modern want for immediate satisfaction but sheesh, at times, we need to pump the brakes. Hell, I was almost convinced the Patriots were gone heading into the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl. What happened? Those unsung heroes came through in the clutch. Funny that.

RayClay · Feb 27, 2015

mgteich said:
If the team believed that Amendola is worth $4.4M under certain conditions, then that's fine.

My personal view is that Amendola is not worth $4.4M, and even more in 2016 and 2017. I believe that the incentives WOULD be reached, so I am considering whether, in my personal view, Amendola is worth that kind money, and an $8M cap hit in 2016.

Perhaps, Amendola, Edelman and Amendola are so good as set that they each are worth more than $4M this year and more then $5M next year. Given what we pay brady, and given how little we pay the running backs, perhaps paying Amendola big bucks.

IMHO, the question before the house is whether Amendola is a 3/$15M wide receiver.
========
BOTTOM LINE
I think that we ALL agree that this current contract will be torn up. Since we would be signing a new contract, we might consider whether any other receivers are worth Amendola money. The team can assess the market during the tampering period.

Amendola would be a great slot receiver for some team that doesn't already have Edelman. i don't care if Edelman is more than a slot receiver, those two are so similar Amendola will never reach his potential here.

Ironically, Amendola hung on and added kick off returns, long enough to play against the one team susceptible to multiple smurf receivers. They aren't going to play big secondaries made to stop big plays every week, though.

If there's no market for Amendola, I'd be happy to have him at the right price as a role player and special teams,

supafly · Feb 27, 2015

Ian said:
Amendola proved your point perfectly this season. From someone they "couldn't count on" in the passing game, to a reliable return man and a key producer down the stretch in the postseason and Super Bowl. Who would have thought?

What's even funnier/more ironic is that we've had many conversations here on the forum about the possibility of that happening (slow regular season, but great postseason).

I've got to admit that even though I backed him as much as possible, I was still pleasantly surprised to see him have such a great postseason. That alone kind of makes it "worth it," in terms of contractual value for 2014. I mean, I realize that it probably doesn't....but who can argue with those kind of end results? I think we'll take that every time!

supafly · Feb 27, 2015

RayClay said:
Amendola would be a great slot receiver for some team that doesn't already have Edelman. i don't care if Edelman is more than a slot receiver, those two are so similar Amendola will never reach his potential here.

Ironically, Amendola hung on and added kick off returns, long enough to play against the one team susceptible to multiple smurf receivers. They aren't going to play big secondaries made to stop big plays every week, though.

If there's no market for Amendola, I'd be happy to have him at the right price as a role player and special teams,

I'd be more than happy to see Amendola return on a lesser deal. I think we could do much worse in terms of camp competition/depth, as we've seen in many years. At worst, Amendola would be a fine WR4 who can add a lot should Edelman miss a month or so.

I don't see any way that he'd stay at the current price, but I'm actually hoping that he comes back in 2015.

mihap · Feb 27, 2015

mgteich said:
Agreed.

Randy Moss had more football smarts that any WR we've ever seen. He was one of the two best WR's of all time.

to bad he didnt use stickum, cause he would be the best

Ivan · Feb 27, 2015

The Rams released Kendall Langford DT. He didn't miss a game in 7 seasons with the Dolphins and Rams. Could be worth taking a look at imo.

Ivan · Feb 27, 2015

Stephen Jackson was released by the Falcons. I think he's toast at this point.

Ring 6 · Feb 27, 2015

mgteich said:
If the team believed that Amendola is worth $4.4M under certain conditions, then that's fine.

My personal view is that Amendola is not worth $4.4M, and even more in 2016 and 2017. I believe that the incentives WOULD be reached, so I am considering whether, in my personal view, Amendola is worth that kind money, and an $8M cap hit in 2016.

Perhaps, Amendola, Edelman and Amendola are so good as set that they each are worth more than $4M this year and more then $5M next year. Given what we pay brady, and given how little we pay the running backs, perhaps paying Amendola big bucks.

IMHO, the question before the house is whether Amendola is a 3/$15M wide receiver.
========
BOTTOM LINE
I think that we ALL agree that this current contract will be torn up. Since we would be signing a new contract, we might consider whether any other receivers are worth Amendola money. The team can assess the market during the tampering period.

This is where you lose me. If the incentives that earned him 4.4 mill were 100 catches and 10 TDs, how could he not me worth 4.4 mill.
Thats the reason for incentives. The base contract is the risk, and the incentives pay you what you are worth.

Ring 6 · Feb 27, 2015

Snake Eyes said:
Your straw man argument implying that advocating for Marshall is equivalent to advocating we bring in any player with problems is not convincing to me.

Thats not my argument, its the one I am disagreeing with.
Responding to my post that I don't want Marshall because of character issues with a picture of Corey Dillon means just that, so inferring that means all problem players are worthwhile because Corey Dillon was is hardly a strawman, its the exact argument that was made, which, of course, I disagree with.

Ring 6 · Feb 27, 2015

JarOfMayo51 said:
Vereen hasn't exactly been a model example of durability.. he basically got paid the first 2 years to sit in the ice tub.. then missed most of his 3rd year with the wrist injury.. go figure, he has 1 healthy season and its in his contract year

In the last 2 years the only time he has missed was because of a broken bone. Broken bones are not an injury prone phenomena, they are just bad luck.
Vereen is in his prime, but is on the other side of the hill. Past injury issues aside, Bush is at the point where the likelihood of injury increases and Vereen is not. Bush also just played a season where he was questioned roundly that he should have been able to come back but nursed the injury. That seems to be one of the reasons he was cut.

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