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My Approach to this Draft


A little off subject, but I have a question for you guys. Thought about making a new post, but didn't know where to put it. so I guess Ill just ask here.
Which two players would you rather have on the roster next year?

Danny Amendola & Aaron Dobson
or
Kenny Britt & Eddie Royal?
 
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He must be reading this board. Shhhhhhh.

I've suspected that a lot lately. The whole heart beat of the fan base is here and it's easy pickings for any reporter to get ideas for their work. Some of the research is already done in some cases, especially in the draft room.
 
I've suspected that a lot lately. The whole heart beat of the fan base is here and it's easy pickings for any reporter to get ideas for their work. Some of the research is already done in some cases, especially in the draft room.

My question is, does he actually work for the patriots? If so, they why the hell would he post players he likes on twitter, for the rest of the 31 other teams to see. That **** annoys me!
 
My question is, does he actually work for the patriots? If so, they why the hell would he post players he likes on twitter, for the rest of the 31 other teams to see. That **** annoys me!

I doubt the other 31 teams really care to be honest. I just think as a reporter this is a good site to come to visit just to get a feel for the fan base. What's bothering them, what excites them etc.
 
I just think as a reporter this is a good site to come to visit just to get a feel for the fan base. What's bothering them, what excites them etc.

It's fun to watch the media catch on to a guy later on in the process. Not that I can complain ... Manx was so far out ahead of the rest of us on Hardison, it's silly. It took me months to catch up.
 
A little off subject, but I have a question for you guys. Thought about making a new post, but didn't know where to put it. so I guess Ill just ask here.
Which two players would you rather have on the roster next year?

Danny Amendola & Aaron Dobson
or
Kenny Britt & Eddie Royal?

Probably should have just gone on the general board but give me Britt and Royal.
 
Mayo,

I agree with your basic idea. I call this the double down draft. I think the Pats need two inside OLineman from this draft. I believe they need to take two OL in the 1st 101 picks (they will have 5 in the 1st 101). I also agree they need DL help. The strength of this draft is on the DL. A team can afford to wait and take a DE/LB or DT later in the draft. I could see the picks go OL, DL, OL, DL RB. They could draft LB projections (Kyle Emmanuel and Tony Chikillo). I could see both of these players moving to ILB. The 4th double down is at RB. I love Tyler Varga and would love to see him taken by the Pats. I agree with Erving, Hardison. Marpet is a project and I would be afraid to start him right away. Fisher has really impressed me and he would also be a candidate to move to LG. David Johnson RB N Iowa is a player that meets the Patriots standards. He has the potential to be an every down back. BB doesn't draft college OG to play OG in the NFL. He takes college OTs and moves them to OG. Look for Jeremiah Poutasi as another possibility at OG. We also need a replacement for Ninko. He is on the other side of 30 and played nearly every snap on D this year. He needs some plays off to extend him ( he wore down significantly as the season went on). I like Preston Smith or Diggy Odighizuwa as the LDE.
 
My approach is knowing that I really don't have any idea what BB and the Pats are going to do. They could trade, up trade down or take Maxx Williams at 32
 
Mayo,

I agree with your basic idea. I call this the double down draft. I think the Pats need two inside OLineman from this draft. I believe they need to take two OL in the 1st 101 picks (they will have 5 in the 1st 101). I also agree they need DL help. The strength of this draft is on the DL. A team can afford to wait and take a DE/LB or DT later in the draft. I could see the picks go OL, DL, OL, DL RB. They could draft LB projections (Kyle Emmanuel and Tony Chikillo). I could see both of these players moving to ILB. The 4th double down is at RB. I love Tyler Varga and would love to see him taken by the Pats. I agree with Erving, Hardison. Marpet is a project and I would be afraid to start him right away. Fisher has really impressed me and he would also be a candidate to move to LG. David Johnson RB N Iowa is a player that meets the Patriots standards. He has the potential to be an every down back. BB doesn't draft college OG to play OG in the NFL. He takes college OTs and moves them to OG. Look for Jeremiah Poutasi as another possibility at OG. We also need a replacement for Ninko. He is on the other side of 30 and played nearly every snap on D this year. He needs some plays off to extend him ( he wore down significantly as the season went on). I like Preston Smith or Diggy Odighizuwa as the LDE.

Lots of thoughts here, too many for just this one thread. A lot of your guys have already been discussed in detail elsewhere on this board (Jeremiah Poutasi, Jake Fisher, David Johnson, obviously Odighizuwa). Similarly, issues such as Nink's snap count have been discussed many times over.

I think that most years there are many, many prospects that the Pats like, but there are also guys who clearly stand out as guys that they target. But nothing is cast in stone. Things don't always go your way, so you have to have alternatives. We've seen the Pats target guys and trade back (McCourty in 2010, Collins in 2013) and we've seen them trade up (Gronk in 2010, Jones and Hightower in 2012).

I've suggested in this thread that I would target Hardison and Marpet as my DL and OL prospects of choice. I agree that I think the odds are high of the Pats taking 2 OL and 2 DL in this draft, though I don't necessarily think it has to be with their top 5 picks. As I said in the OP, my approach would be to be "flexible" and go with the flow of the draft, while aggressively targeting those 2 guys on day 2. I don't expect everyone to agree. Some of the guys you mention could easily be options depending on how things fall, but for me they aren't my primary targets.

I would also beware of the thinking that the team needs to come away with a particular list of positions filled in the draft. As Seattle GM John Schneider noted, "we never go into this thing saying we have to have this or we have to have that. That's when you get in trouble in terms of overpaying." I think that's an important distinction.
 
A very interesting read from Rob Staton on Seahawksdraftblog about Seattle's maneuvering in the 2014 draft to get "their guys":
The Seahawks manipulated the board in 2014 accumulating picks along the way. ... their main intention in round one last year was to use the #32 selection to make sure they got more picks for other targeted players later on.

Seattle traded down twice — acquiring an extra fourth rounder from Minnesota and a seventh from Detroit. They also swapped a fifth for a fourth with the Lions. That deal essentially allowed them to take Cassius Marsh, Kevin Norwood and Kevin Pierre-Louis in the same round. A calculated move — because all three screamed ‘Seahawks’ pre-draft. This wasn’t done on a whim. And you can’t draft all three without the carefully orchestrated trades.

I’m not sure Marsh or Norwood necessarily go in the fourth round unless Seattle takes them. They made sure they got the guys they liked. There are other examples. They knew at #64 they had to take a tackle or risk missing out altogether (they had no third round pick because of the Percy Harvin trade). So they took Justin Britt — a move that, in fairness, seemed like quite a reach.

Garrett Scott provided a physical upside at tackle (a SPARQ demon) in round six. Eric Pinkins was a total unknown, but also a total fit for what they look for in a defensive back. Does Jimmy Stated get drafted if the Seahawks don’t pick him in round five? Moves to get physical ideals onto the roster or obtain players they’d struggle to attract in UDFA.

There weren’t a lot of ‘big names’ on the 2014 list of draftees. There were a lot of players that made you say, “of course!” right after the pick when you looked at the measurables.

I suspect we’ll see something similar again this year. It’ll be a combination of hitting certain positional needs (and possibly reaching a little) in targeted rounds and selecting physical/character fits in other spots.

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/why-seahawks-will-trade-down-from-31-take-their-guys

Seam familiar? Very Belichickean.

"My guys" are Hardison and Marpet - not "big names", but great fits and measurables. I could be wrong, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if they end up being high on BB's list. Regardless, I think we'll see the same kind of maneuvering in the draft described above, with BB passing up a bunch of "big name" players and coming away with "his guys".
 
I am not really a hardison fan, but I see the value in having a big 300 pound dt lined up between wilfork and jones to help with run defense.

Seems like we got killed when teams ran in the b gap against us all last year.
 
You can find five games of Marpet tape at the link. You are looking for LT #55.

http://clients.bproductions.com/ali-marpet-left-tackle-55

Just watched a few minutes and whilst he looked utterly dominant, it's really hard to come to too many conclusions considering the quality of opposition.

I will leave you with this thought:

How good was Ali Marpet in 2014? He was named his Conference's Most Valuable Offensive Player. (1st OL in Leauge History)

https://twitter.com/NEPD_Loyko/status/570381922096037888

An offensive lineman as Offensive MVP is just crazy.
 
A very interesting read from Rob Staton on Seahawksdraftblog about Seattle's maneuvering in the 2014 draft to get "their guys"

Hmm...he's making some pretty strong statements about intent based on outcome:

their main intention in round one last year was to use the #32 selection to make sure they got more picks for other targeted players later on.
...
A calculated move — because all three screamed ‘Seahawks’ pre-draft. This wasn’t done on a whim. And you can’t draft all three without the carefully orchestrated trades.

The problem is, that was the draft with the live cameras in the Seahawks war room that showed the room suddenly deflating and sinking into dejection the moment Dominique Easley came off the board, and only THEN hitting the trade phones.

IOW, the whole scenario he maps out was plan B, and amounts to little more than "they didn't like the available talent at #32 and responded accordingly."
 
Hmm...he's making some pretty strong statements about intent based on outcome:

The problem is, that was the draft with the live cameras in the Seahawks war room that showed the room suddenly deflating and sinking into dejection the moment Dominique Easley came off the board, and only THEN hitting the trade phones.

IOW, the whole scenario he maps out was plan B, and amounts to little more than "they didn't like the available talent at #32 and responded accordingly."

I agree, which is why I think the key is to do both: identify some prime targets that you really want to get - "your guys" - and go with where the board takes you and where the values are. That's part of the value of a short board - it allows you to focus more and to move a bit more aggressively. That's also part of the value of having a very small war room of people who have worked together for a long time (BB, Kraft, Caserio and Ernie Adams). Teams who have big boards and 30 people in their war rooms sometimes get bogged down in indecision.

I think one of the really under-rated aspects of the draft is the real time element. Teams have only 10 minutes between picks in round 1, 7 minutes in round 2, and 5 minutes for round 3 and later. Not much time. You can be all set up and then your whole strategy is thrown into disarray, with only a few minutes to plan. That's reportedly what happened with Philadelphia last year, when all their top choices were gone by pick 22 (they reportedly wanted Ha-Ha Clinton Dix badly, who went 1 pick earlier to Green Bay), so they traded back 4 spots with Cleveland, regrouped, and reached for Marcus Smith.

At pick 32 there are no guarantees. I think it's imperative to have a very clear board and a short list of guys who you would take at 32. If none are available, you trade back or trade out, even at a discount. If no trade is available you're effectively screwed, and need a good back up plan.

My strategy, as discussed above, would be to target Hardison and Marpet day 2 to fill key positions, and move aggressively to get them. A trade back from 32 would be my last resort. Otherwise I'd have a short list of guys that I'd take at 32, and of guys who I'd trade back for. My list would look something like this:

- Would take at 32: Todd Gurley, Eddie Goldman, Dante Fowler (long gone), Bud Dupree (likely long gone), TJ Clemmings. Maybe Cam Erving (only issue would be redundancy with Marpet). Maybe Owamagbe Odighizuwa, Jake Fisher or Shaq Thompson. Maybe a DB like Jalen Collins, Byron or Marcus Peters, depending on how high they grade out. The goal would be to add a 1st round worthy talent and value, not to fill a specific need.

- Would take after trading back from 32: Any of the above players plus Bernardrick McKinney, Danielle Hunter, Malcolm Brown, maybe Jordan Phillips, maybe Maxx Williams, Maybe Tevin Coleman.

As long as I landed a couple of "my guys", even if they were considered reaches, I'd end up pretty content. As I said in the OP, the rest is gravy.
 
That's fine, I have some concerns about his fit too. But his jump isn't related to a single event like a combine, it's because his potential is sky high. I had him going 2nd round in a mock nearly four months ago - Hardison is very very talented, particularly athletically.


the more I read about him, the more impressive he sounds........
 
A two-sentence sequence leaps out at me:

If no trade is available you're effectively screwed, and need a good back up plan.

My strategy, as discussed above, would be to target Hardison and Marpet day 2 to fill key positions, and move aggressively to get them.

I'm nervous about a strategy built around securing 2 players at points where you don't currently have picks. You're counting on a lot of pieces that are out of your hands falling into place. You need trade partners willing to trade down from a high-value part of the draft, and you need players to be available at the points you expect in a highly volatile part of the draft. If, e.g., OL is your #1 need and you pass on it with your first pick counting on picking up Marpet in the 3rd, what do you do if Marpet goes in the 2nd (a la Vollmer, Bitonio, et al)?

IOW, who's your fallback if Marpet isn't there?
 
Not much time. You can be all set up and then your whole strategy is thrown into disarray, with only a few minutes to plan. That's reportedly what happened with Philadelphia last year, when all their top choices were gone by pick 22 (they reportedly wanted Ha-Ha Clinton Dix badly, who went 1 pick earlier to Green Bay)

Meant to say, if this seriously threw Philly into disarray, shame on them. Not one of the players drafted above them was a surprise to be gone in the top 21 picks, and Clinton-Dix to Green Bay was plenty likely. (E.g. this mock made the case for that pick: http://www.drafttek.com/2014-NFL-Mock-Draft-Round1b.asp)
 
I think Mayo is really over-rating Marpet. Not so much as a prospect. He's a good "SMALL" school prospect. Let me repeat that. "SMALL" school prospect. For all of the Terron Armstead comparisions. Who went 76. Armstead still hasn't established himself as a solid starter yet. You can't base your draft around a kid from Hobart. He's blocking accoutants and middle-managers for god's sake. I'm not passing on Cam Erving or Jake Fisher at 32 because I might get Marpet later. If you draft Erving or Fisher at 32, you may not need another OL pick until much later. 4-6TH round. We don't know what BB thinks of Fleming. He could be our long-term answer at RG. I wouldn't complain if we took Marpet at 64. I wouldn't complain if we went DT and DE at 1-2. Move up in Round 3 for Marpet. Just think it's a little whacked to build any sort of draft strategy out of a kid from Hobart.
 


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