Welker and Mankins

libra957 said:

Had they been on the team they would have been a shell of their former self, especially Welker. So the team didn't subtract, they upgraded. A better version of the patriots was created without them. Saying we would have won anyway with declining players is a real stretch.

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I agree that they created a better team but that very different than saying they wouldn't have won with them on the team.

shmessy said:

.........oh, and did we mention the Patriots are also getting the #1 pick of Day 3???????


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Like I said before I agreed with the Mankins trade. Great player and I hated to see him go but it was the right move and they got good value while saving cash they used to upgrade during the season. My point is simply that both were very good players for the Patriots and saying they wouldn't win with them on the team is foolish.

shmessy said:

.........oh, and did we mention the Patriots are also getting the #1 pick of Day 3???????

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Isn't it actually the #2 pick in the fourth round?

I am a Welker fan and wish he could've gotten a ring but it didn't happen. Too bad. Many greats don't get a ring.

I am a Mankins hater and have been for years. Probably would've lost the sb if he was on our roster. I was truly done w/ Mankins when he sat out and our offense barely skipped a beat. In the post season, our offense usually goes cold and struggles to break 20 points against good defenses, but not this past year. I do not believe it is a mere coincidence that our offense comes to life in the biggest of games when Mankins is gone.

doesntmatter1 said:

I am a Welker fan and wish he could've gotten a ring but it didn't happen. Too bad. Many greats don't get a ring.

I am a Mankins hater and have been for years. Probably would've lost the sb if he was on our roster. I was truly done w/ Mankins when he sat out and our offense barely skipped a beat. In the post season, our offense usually goes cold and struggles to break 20 points against good defenses, but not this past year. I do not believe it is a mere coincidence that our offense comes to life in the biggest of games when Mankins is gone.

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Belichick called Mankins the best OL he has ever coached, and he has coached many really good OL. He played a Super Bowl,on a torn ACL and never said a word about it. He's a borderline HOF lineman and all his teammates loved him. I have absolutely no idea how any Patriot fan could not both like and respect him.

Without contributions from Edelman and Wright (to a lesser extent) we may not have won the Super Bowl. Neither of those guys would have been in place to do what they did had Mankins/Welker been here.

Ivan said:

Belichick called Mankins the best OL he has ever coached, and he has coached many really good OL. He played a Super Bowl,on a torn ACL and never said a word about it. He's a borderline HOF lineman and all his teammates loved him. I have absolutely no idea how any Patriot fan could not both like and respect him.

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The bottom line is that the team did better with $7M of additional 2014 cap room and Wright than they would have with Mankins. It was time for Mankins to go (perhaps even a year late), and the OL looked fine once Stork was healthy.

Ivan said:

Belichick called Mankins the best OL he has ever coached, and he has coached many really good OL. He played a Super Bowl,on a torn ACL and never said a word about it. He's a borderline HOF lineman and all his teammates loved him. I have absolutely no idea how any Patriot fan could not both like and respect him.

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I don't quite know how to interpret "borderline," but the chance of Mankins making the HOF is close to zero. One AP first team all pro, and five second team picks does not presage the gold blazer.

203Pat said:

Without contributions from Edelman and Wright (to a lesser extent) we may not have won the Super Bowl. Neither of those guys would have been in place to do what they did had Mankins/Welker been here.

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I have agreed with that numerous times in this n thread, what I disagreed with was the claim they wouldn't have won if they were on the team. I will go back and pull the quote out.

dales804 said:

Am I the only one who thinks not having them is a reason NE won the Super Bowl, again, after 10 years?

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This is what I am talking about.

I agree that the decision to trade Mankins played a role in their success this season but to say they wouldn't have won if he was he was on the team is nonsensical.

dales804 said:

Am I the only one who thinks not having them is a reason NE won the Super Bowl, again, after 10 years?

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I respectfully disagree. We've now won 4 Super Bowls by 13 combined points, and lost 2 more by 7 combined points, and while Mankins and Welker could have made more plays to win (I still have nightmares of that drop), both easily could have had a ring if Asante holds onto that ball or Tyree doesn't make the catch of a lifetime or we decide not to stick a midget on their tallest receiver.

We re-write narratives because of the final score, but if any of those plays had been different, they would have been champs. All happened without them on the field. Brady's struggles would have been overlooked because he led the team down the field late to take the lead. Instead, he sucked.

No different than this year. Brady was up and down but found it late to give the team the lead late. But Seattle drives down to the goal line and if not for a miraculous play by Butler, we're focusing on Brady's 2 INTs instead of calling him the GOAT. How we remember him during that Super Bowl changed while he was sitting on the sideline

So Welker and Mankins were great players and they deserve to be in the Patriots Hall of Fame one day. They got unlucky at times and then forced their way out of town before the rings came in.

Eff em both. We didn't win anything with either of them.

BTW if Welker wanted a ring so badly then he shouldn't have dropped the one he had in his hands.

The only thing I think about when Welker and Mankings gets brought up; how smug Belichick is feeling after all those mediots and fans slagged him off for these two moves. For 'low-balling' and being a poor GM.

It astounds me that after free agencies like this one, and some pretty good draft classes, that there will be more moves in the future that our fans will turn on Bill for.

We should have all learned before the Welker and Mankins sagas that Belichick always has the last laugh. We should definitely know that now.

Those fans, who all jumped on Belichick for what were very smart and logical moves even at the time they happened, should feel stupid.

mgteich said:

The bottom line is that the team did better with $7M of additional 2014 cap room and Wright than they would have with Mankins. It was time for Mankins to go (perhaps even a year late), and the OL looked fine once Stork was healthy.

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The only reason Mankins went was because he refused to budge.

The team approached him not once, but twice.

That doesn't feel like a "time for you to go" approach to me.

People need to quit the Tim Wright as a 2nd TE for Mankins made the team better talk. Mankins traded for additional cap space is what made the team better.

Tim Wright playoff numbers - 0 catches. (snap counts, 3,5,2)

juny said:

People need to quit the Tim Wright as a 2nd TE for Mankins made the team better talk. Mankins traded for additional cap space is what made the team better.

Tim Wright playoff numbers - 0 catches. (snap counts, 3,5,2)

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It absolutely made the team better for the future and gave us a hard asset now. Who cares what the guy did in the playoffs? Its not like he is a stiff and cant play.

They were riding the hot hands and were not going to move away from that so that they could give snaps to Tim to justify a trade.

PP2 said:

The only reason Mankins went was because he refused to budge.

The team approached him not once, but twice.

That doesn't feel like a "time for you to go" approach to me.

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Not,true, Mankins says he was willing to take a pay cut just not as much of one as the Patriots wanted him to take.

juny said:

People need to quit the Tim Wright as a 2nd TE for Mankins made the team better talk. Mankins traded for additional cap space is what made the team better.

Tim Wright playoff numbers - 0 catches. (snap counts, 3,5,2)

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As well as a top 100 pick.

Ivan said:

Not,true, Mankins says he was willing to take a pay cut just not as much of one as the Patriots wanted him to take.

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The point being that the Patriots didn't view him as a "time for you to go."