Sign the Beast VI: DE Mathias Kiwanuka released by Giants

Slagathor · Feb 24, 2015

Giants just released this dude. Might be worth taking a flyer on him.

jboston19 · Feb 24, 2015

Definitely worth a shot. Loved him at BC and he's been serviceable in the pros.

DaBruinz · Feb 24, 2015

He's 31 and only had 2.5 sacks on 558 snaps.. I think he's about toast.. I'd rather use the money to keep Ayers and use another draft pick to add someone to groom behind Ninkovich..

shmessy · Feb 24, 2015

DaBruinz said:
He's 31 and only had 2.5 sacks on 558 snaps.. I think he's about toast.. I'd rather use the money to keep Ayers and use another draft pick to add someone to groom behind Ninkovich..

This.

It's been pretty well reported that the Pats are very tight to the cap (actually, well over it at the moment).

I lean towards trying to re-sign MOST (sorry, Shane) of our FA's, welcome back Mayo and Easley next year and wrap it all up with our 5 draft picks in the top 97.

Can't really see a way for the Pats to be a big (or even moderate) player in FA this year. Given the above, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Oswlek · Feb 24, 2015

shmessy said:
This.

It's been pretty well reported that the Pats are very tight to the cap (actually, well over it at the moment).

I lean towards trying to re-sign MOST (sorry, Shane) of our FA's, welcome back Mayo and Easley next year and wrap it all up with our 5 draft picks in the top 97.

Can't really see a way for the Pats to be a big (or even moderate) player in FA this year. Given the above, that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed. Should we create a forum for all the unnecessary "sign X?" threads?

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Feb 24, 2015

every "sign this guy X" proposal also then has to say "instead of our guy Y"

because there is a budget, and a tight one at that

patfanken · Feb 24, 2015

DaBruinz said:
He's 31 and only had 2.5 sacks on 558 snaps.. I think he's about toast.. I'd rather use the money to keep Ayers and use another draft pick to add someone to groom behind Ninkovich..

I have more of an open mind for 2 reasons.

1. Before I agree 100% with your assessment I'd like BB to tell me he thinks that Ayers is better than Kiwi right now. If he isn't or they are about the same, I'd look at Kiwi as a lower cost alternative as the 3rd DE/OLB. Also IIRC isn't Kiwi better against the run?

2. The second reason is a pet peeve of mine, with people always assuming that whoever we draft will be immediately better than the 2 young guys we are already developing. I'm pretty sure that both Moore and Buchannon both had excellent combine numbers in speed and quickness that are not much different than the guys that we are likely to draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds or lower. Moore showed particularly good promise, given that he was playing division 3 ball in 2013. And we all loved the flashes we saw from Buchannon in his rookie year.

Ayers is going to want to translate his superbowl notoriety into more cash that he is worth. There is a reason he didn't get on the field much the last 3rd of the season. We just don't know it. I'd much rather let Ayers walk and spend the money on our own, and develop the guys we have going into their 2nd and 3rd seasons. Then we can add a guy like Kiwi with the experience and smarts to minimize the risk....and save a couple of million, and hope the young kids can beat him out.

PatsWickedPissah · Feb 24, 2015

Agree Ken but how could you forget Jake Bequette

Deus Irae · Feb 24, 2015

I wish him luck with his next team. Maybe he's got a year or two left. Although I've seen no sign of it in his recent play, perhaps a new environment will improve his game. However, I can not muster up the desire for that team to be the Patriots.

mgteich · Feb 24, 2015

As with many other players, we don't know what he wants in compensation, and we don't know how healthy he is.

Almost every veteran at positions of need is worth bringing in for a look see. There is no risk unless a contract is signed with significant guaranteed money.

Would I feel comfortable with kiwi here on a minimum vet contract. Of course I would.

DaBruinz · Feb 24, 2015

patfanken said:
I have more of an open mind for 2 reasons.

1. Before I agree 100% with your assessment I'd like BB to tell me he thinks that Ayers is better than Kiwi right now. If he isn't or they are about the same, I'd look at Kiwi as a lower cost alternative as the 3rd DE/OLB. Also IIRC isn't Kiwi better against the run?

2. The second reason is a pet peeve of mine, with people always assuming that whoever we draft will be immediately better than the 2 young guys we are already developing. I'm pretty sure that both Moore and Buchannon both had excellent combine numbers in speed and quickness that are not much different than the guys that we are likely to draft in the 2nd and 3rd rounds or lower. Moore showed particularly good promise, given that he was playing division 3 ball in 2013. And we all loved the flashes we saw from Buchannon in his rookie year.

Ayers is going to want to translate his superbowl notoriety into more cash that he is worth. There is a reason he didn't get on the field much the last 3rd of the season. We just don't know it. I'd much rather let Ayers walk and spend the money on our own, and develop the guys we have going into their 2nd and 3rd seasons. Then we can add a guy like Kiwi with the experience and smarts to minimize the risk....and save a couple of million, and hope the young kids can beat him out.

Ken - I think that it's safe to say that you are the one who made assumptions.

1) Kiwanuka isn't a 4-3 OLB. Never has been. So, acting like they fill in at the same position doesn't make any sense. When Ayers played on the line, it was as a Rush LB, not a DE.

2) You should know by now that I never assume anything about a draft pick. You clearly made the assumption that I did. Furthermore, both Moore and Buchanan were lining up in Chandler Jones spot. Not Ninkovich's spot. I don't see either Moore nor Jones as replacements for Ninkovich either short term nor long term.

The reason that Ayers didn't get on the field much the final 3rd of the season was the Pats were using primarily Nickel packages when Chandler Jones returned. And they went back to using a 4-2 instead of a 3-3. They pulled Ayers for Jones. Ayers is prototypical Patriots 3-4 OLB in terms of his size/weight ratio. Moore and Buchanan are tweeners ala McGinest, though neither would ever be mistake for McGinest. Neither showed a lot of promise when it comes to run defense. Something that Ninkovich excells at.

I don't see Ninkovich's replacement on this team unless they keep Ayers and move him to that side. And I definitely don't see Kiwanuka being that replacement..

Slagathor · Feb 25, 2015

All I said was take a flyer on him. Take a look..see if he has anything left in the tank.

If he sucks. Cut him loose

Changes of scenery can at times...provide one last gasp to some guy's NFL careers.

Cap space is always an issue.

Btw...no way was that title mine.

McClusky · Feb 25, 2015

DaBruinz said:
1) Kiwanuka isn't a 4-3 OLB. Never has been. So, acting like they fill in at the same position doesn't make any sense. When Ayers played on the line, it was as a Rush LB, not a DE.

Personally I think Kiwi is toast at this point in his career, but you are wrong on this point. Kiwi has played a pretty substantial amount of 4-3 OLB in his career. He was a pretty decent one earlier in his career.

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