Logan Ryan and Alfonzo Dennard

Logan Ryan didn't have a good season comparing to what people expected after his rookie year, but we have seen this before with McCourty; a great rookie season and then a drop in the 2nd.

Dennard has always been a good player but this year he was very inconsistent until being IRed. Maybe we were spoiled after several years of mediocrity in the backfield and then you have Revis elevating the standards, exposing other players failures.

What to expect from both from now on? If Dennard is involved in a trade (I think he has a market) what kind of draft pick could we get in exchange?

varjao said:

Logan Ryan didn't have a good season comparing to what people expected after his rookie year but we have seen this before with McCourthy, great rookie season and then a drop in the 2nd.

Dennard has always been a good player but this year he was very inconsistent until being IRed. Maybe we were spoiled after several years of mediocrity in the backfield and then you have Revis elevating the standards, exposing other players failures.

What to expect from both from now on? If Dennard is involved in a trade (I think he has a market) what kind of draft pick could we get in exchange?

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What would you give for a CB that was not even active for most of the year, then put on IR, with one year left on his contract, could be sent back to jail with one parole infraction, and was due $1.5M?

I'm guessing the answer would be....zip.

Training camp. It's for deciding who is the best prepared to play in the 2015 season.

I think both will be on the 2015 53-man.

Revis (if he is extended)
Browner
Arrington (on a restructured deal)
Dennard
Butler
Ryan

The latter 3 all on minimal rookie deals.

Look we all know the Pats pass rush isn't probably going to take over a game but you don't need it to when you have one of the best LB and CB corps in the league.

You aren't going to get much for Dennard. Probably a 6th round, maybe a 5th round which to me doesn't seem worth it.

Ryan I thought was pretty good as CB4.

Arrington I'll call CB3 - as always, was great in the slot, but as we saw in the SB, just not big enough to play outside.

Dennard is the most interesting case b/c he looked an excellent CB2 before falling off the radar this year.

Butler is another interesting case, obviously showed what he can do in the SB, and had a strong camp going into the year. Struggled on ST at times in between. I tend to think he's more in the diamond-in-the-rough category like Arrington, then a Sterling Moore/we'll never hear from you again type.

Assuming Revis/Browner are back, I do think we could see one of these guys gone, and replaced with cheap labor via the draft, with an eye towards taking another big, long CB to back up Browner. I said in another thread, we could use a poor man's Browner. All four of our backups - as great as they are for backups - are undersized.

JMC00 said:

The latter 3 all on minimal rookie deals.

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Worth noting - Dennard's deal is no bargain next year. Almost a 1.6 mill cap hit, which is too rich for a team with 3 CBs making more, and playing more. He'll either have to earn his way back into the depth chart, or he could be a cut.

Ryan's play in the Super Bowl was pretty much a realization of everything that I ever worried about with him. Not physical enough, not quick enough, not big enough for the kind of defense we want to play. Plays too far off his man, gives up way too easy vital completions as a result. Going forward, I think Butler is a better system fit than Ryan is at CB.

As far back as when he was drafted, I thought he might be a candidate to move to safety. He doesn't have anything close to McCourty's range, but he is somewhat similar to McCourty in that he's best when he's facing the QB and the play is in front of him. He has excellent ball skills and good hands for a defensive player. I could see him carving out a role as a solid NFL safety.

I have no idea what to think about Dennard. I can only assume there was something going on that we didn't know about, re: injuries or attitude or something. It would definitely be a pleasant surprise if he rebounded next year.

Ryan's not good, but I think he could be a better safety than corner, a la McCourty. Dennard's season is one where I'd need a lot more information to judge.

Deus Irae said:

Ryan's not good, but I think he could be a better safety than corner, a la McCourty. Dennard's season is one where I'd need a lot more information to judge.

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I wouldn't say Ryan isn't good. His rookie season was outstanding. Like a lot of young corners he had an inconsistent year 2. He made some visible missteps against Seattle and Green Bay, but at the same time people forget some of the great plays he made like his pass defense against Hakeem Nicks in the AFCCG. Ultimately he's going to be a nickel or dime corner for us long term, and hopefully his play trends upwards as he ages like it did with Arrington.

McClusky said:

I wouldn't say Ryan isn't good. His rookie season was outstanding.

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Given that we're going to disagree starting with your opening sentences, yet again, I think I'll just re-state my position and leave it at that:

Ryan's not good, but I think he could be a better safety than corner, a la McCourty. Dennard's season is one where I'd need a lot more information to judge.

They had their moments in 2013 but Ryan and Dennard just can't keep up with top WR's on a consistent basis. Same deal with Arrington and big, fast WR's on the outside. Ryan might be able to become the next Arrington. Who knows. Not sure where Dennard goes from here.

Butler was also cooked a few times on the outside (see the GB game) last year as well. With that said, I think hes a better outside the numbers DB than Dennard and Ryan.

I can see Dennard being trade bait. He has starter experience and is relatively cheap. If the Pats can get a mid rounder for him, I think they may take it. Considering they got him in the seventh round, it would be a huge gain for the team.

Ryan had an up and down season. He is not an outside starter, but at times he played really well while sucking others. He could make a year three jump. Not saying it will be a Hightower type of jump, but he might get far more consistent.

Mid rounder?

MID ROUNDER???

Gawd I hate off season

PatsWickedPissah said:

Mid rounder?

MID ROUNDER???

Gawd I hate off season

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What?!? Too low? You really think they could get a first or a second for him?

I think that a midround pick is about right for a guy who started on this team for two years or so. Ellis Hobbs got the Pats two fifth round draft choices. I would put Dennard on that level or higher. A fourth or even a low 3rd isn't out of the question (although a 3rd is doubtful).

He was mostly a solid starter before this year. He was coming off an injury. I think if anything that might lower his value. But based on his playing value when healthy, he is definitely worth a mid round pick. He was a solid #2 CB his first two seasons.

You act like I am making a first or second round pick for Mallett type of trade suggestion.

I think the most realistic trade scenario for a guy like Alfonzo Dennard is a player for player trade with a guy from the same draft class who has fallen out of favor with his current team. A Dennard for Chris Givens type trade would make sense to me. Kind of like the Bethel Johnson for JT O' Sullivan trade back in the day.

Teams wont be that eager to part with anything higher than a 7th or so for a guy who is expiring. Think about how little we paid for Ayers who was in a similar spot to where Dennard is now.

Guy spent the season on the bench or inactive then on IR
Has prior law troubles that upon another offense even DWB could get him a hefty suspension

I'd be surprised were we to get a 5th (edited)

Agree with player swap trade scenario

McClusky said:

I think the most realistic trade scenario for a guy like Alfonzo Dennard is a player for player trade with a guy from the same draft class who has fallen out of favor with his current team. A Dennard for Chris Givens type trade would make sense to me. Kind of like the Bethel Johnson for JT O' Sullivan trade back in the day.

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Player for player trades rarely happen in the NFL.

Rob0729 said:

Player for player trades rarely happen in the NFL.

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BB has done a few. Why not Dennard?

PatsWickedPissah said:

Guy spent the season on the bench or inactive then on IR
Has prior law troubles that upon another offense even DWB could get him a hefty suspension

I'd be surprised were we to get a 6th

Agree with player swap trade scenario

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The guy was mostly a solid starter for the two years previous. Someone will give up for a guy who has succeeded as a starter. Not huge amounts, but a 4th or 5th isn't a lot.

Last year, he was coming off shoulder surgery and was caught in a glut at CB. His first two years, he showed some real promise at press coverage skills which could have been hindered by the shoulder injury.

Rob0729 said:

Player for player trades rarely happen in the NFL.

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The conditions where they do happen are conditions that fit a Dennard trade though. Expiring, little guaranteed money left, and still young enough that both players have flier upside in a new situation.

I'm not sure it's worth it for the Pats to sacrifice Dennard for a conditional late rounder, but if they can get a cheap player who might contribute for a year it could be worth it.