Who is worth the pick at 32?

Wilfork#75 said:

I understand where you are coming from but the Pats and Seahawks are built completely different. With the Pats system I just don't think there is enough value at the RB position to be worth a 1st round pick. I love Gurley as a player but I just don't think the upgrade he would give us over our other options at RB is as great as an upgrade a DT, DE or OL at 32 would give us. That is before factoring in the short shelf life of RB's and the already major injury concerns for Gurley.

But that is just my opinion and I certainly respect yours. You clearly know your stuff and I agree with a lot more of your opinions than I disagree with. That is what makes this place such a valuable tool for draft information.

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I'm absolutely fine with disagreement, no worries on that score.

At the end of the day, you may well be right in terms of how BB will value a first round RB in the current system. I'm not convinced he would draft Gurley even if he's available because the system allows for a Blount or a Gray to succeed. My issue with that thinking is that neither are good enough to succeed except in the right situations. Blount went missing against Denver in the '14 Championship game and in the SB. He's good in the right situation but he's not good enough to carry a team (and he's only signed for one more year). As I've said before, I think adding Gurley will be like adding Gronk which is why I have him so high on my BB.

I think if the medical staff are comfortable with the health of Gurley's knee then he has to be under serious consideration. In my opinion he's a different animal to Trent Richardson. Trent Richardson was a powerful runner at Alabama who was running through massive lanes that his outstanding OL were opening for him. Now, when he can't run over defenders, the running lanes are not as wide and don't stay open for so long he's become indecisive and lacks confidence. Constantly second guessing. I'd say he has trouble getting in his front door at this stage without juking into the wall. Of course he's also put on too much weight and doesn't look fit. He seems mentally weak and gives up at first contact. There's a myriad of issues going on there.

Gurley is more well rounded in my opinion. He's faster, more elusive and more decisive. He can catch passes and return kicks. He breaks tackles and never gives up on a play. I like him a lot and I think he has to be in the discussion if he's still available at 32.

luuked said:

I think for the first time in a while I am pretty relaxed and calm about our draft. The depth and strengths of this draft class align nicely with some gaps that we have.

If we decide to risk it and go the Gurley route I will be excited, if instead we decide to shore up our OL and go with Clemmings/Erving I will be happy as well. If any of the better EDGE players (Bud Dupree..) slide for some reason I am totally on board with them.

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And when Revis and McCourty leave to go to another team, will you be so relaxed?

I certainly think there are some nice prospects in the 28-64 range, enough that we should get two good picks out of it. But I also dread the Tavon Wilson moment.

Wilfork#75 said:

I love Gurley as a player but I just don't think the upgrade he would give us over our other options at RB is as great as an upgrade a DT, DE or OL at 32 would give us.

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What I am about to write totally depends on your evaluation of Gurley but if you agree that he is both a running & catching threat then I'd say he would be a great addition.

Imagine if our opponents had to respect the pass in situations where Blount is on the field and similarly respect the run with Vereen in the game. Mismatches are how games are won and being able to manipulate them with extremely versatile players is key. It all depends on how much you trust Gurley to become a dual threat.

That all being said, I am similarly excited about upgrading the OL and giving Brady more protection and time. So whatever happens.. I am fine..

manxman2601 said:

And when Revis and McCourty leave to go to another team, will you be so relaxed?

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This would of course change a lot of things.. things that can't be fixed in one offseason and would most probably move us back into 2011 territory.. don't give me those nightmares

My hope is in this draft BB addresses both lines. The lone exceptions would be if Dorial Green-Beckham was there or a shut down corner prospect fell to #32. Shoring up the middle of the Oline may lead to back to back titles

Great lists by luuked and Wilfork #75. It's fascinating to think what we could do with our pick. What if Gurley is there? Certainly very good value at that pick, a guy who can do it all if and when he comes back from his knee surgery.

But what about going WR and tapping Urban Meyer again? I know I may catch some flack for our pick years ago of the Florida WR Chad Jackson.

But, seriously, did anyone burn the vaunted Michigan State secondary more the last few years than speed merchant Ohio State WR Devin Smith? No. He's very competitive and a big-time vertical threat.

Something needed around these parts, which we haven't had since 2007 when Randy Moss was here. So for me it's

1. Bud Dupree. _Love_ this kid. Long gone, though. http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2...fl_draft_prospe_4.html#incart_related_stories
2.Owa Diggy (Odighizuw) DE UCLA. Likely gone, too, just before #32. A shorter Willie McGinest with the power to take over a game. Hips are scary--surgery on both and sat out all of 2013. Dad's only 5'8"!
3. Malcolm Brown. Married with a stepson just like Vince. Protege for the veteran. I love Brown's maturity. Youth, size, and power to the Dline.
4. Cameron Erving. Florida State is the new Rutgers when it comes to the Patriots' Oline. His versatility is outstanding.
5. Devin Smith, WR, Ohio State. Plays faster than his 4.42 40 run at the Combine. Home-run threat to open the seams and middle as defenses try to adjust to the offense we have run. This is an Urban Meyer kid who fills a big need. Is Urban still on Bill's speed dial?
6. DJ Humphries. I think we wanted to improve the interior of the Oline more last year, but when Trai Turner, LSU's guard, was taken just before us in the third, we bailed. Enough with cat guts and superglue, let's get power and athleticism going at guard. Humphries, who is more of a second-rounder (but gone by #64), can be moved in a year to tackle.
7. Gurley. Bad name. Too talented to overlook? I hope he pass blocks as well as people say he can.
8. Devin Funchess. Could be an interesting addition on offense--a match-up nightmare. Think how well Kelvin Benjamin produced as a rookie last year. Coveted by Michigan State, where he should have gone, Funchess sometimes lacks patience and maturity.

luuked said:

I think for the first time in a while I am pretty relaxed and calm about our draft. The depth and strengths of this draft class align nicely with some gaps that we have.

If we decide to risk it and go the Gurley route I will be excited, if instead we decide to shore up our OL and go with Clemmings/Erving I will be happy as well. If any of the better EDGE players (Bud Dupree..) slide for some reason I am totally on board with them.

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I think we can win the AFC if we bring McCourty and Revis back. Return to health of; Mayo, Easley and Dobson. Throw in a decent draft. I'm ready to spank the Steelers in the kick-off game

We need a big DT to groom behind Wilfork.

That's our biggest need IMO.


2nd need is some offensive firepower. Weather it's WR/TE/RB, we need some insurance in case Gronk goes down again.

The linebacker from tcu, Dawson? has some fantastic tape. I wonder if his numbers will support his production.

Wilfork#75 said:

While I like Gurley I certainly wouldn't spend a 1st round pick on him. We've seen the RB position become devalued over the past few years, and especially for this team with Blount still under contract I just can't justify using such resources on him. Add in the complete unknown of the injury and I would let someone else take a chance on him. We had this discussion a few years back with Trent Richardson and what kind of impact a top tier RB would have on this team and we all know how that worked out. And I would argue Richardson was a superior prospect to Gurley.

Of course every year guys slide that nobody would expect to be available so I would just sit tight at 32, let everything unfold and either take BPA or trade down.

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The problem with Richardson isn't the devaluation of the RB position. It's that he isn't a good RB because he has very bad vision. In my opinion I won't let Richardsons horrible vision affect my opinion of the value of a very good running back, because Richardson isn't one.

MrNathanDrake said:

We need a big DT to groom behind Wilfork.

That's our biggest need IMO.


2nd need is some offensive firepower. Weather it's WR/TE/RB, we need some insurance in case Gronk goes down again.

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I disagree on both your top needs, even if I see them as needs. I think interior OL is more important than both of your named needs. Our biggest problem with running the ball wasn't that our RB wasn't good enough, it was that the OL couldn't create gaps, or worse, was pushed back into the backfield. It's always nice with more firepower, but we already have 3 very good weapons in Edelman, LaFell, and Gronkowski. We need to keep Brady up and give our running backs a chance to get past the line of scrimmage.

DT to replace Wolfork? Really?

I will harp. We could have had a starting NFL-calibre DT in San Diego's Kendall Reyes. I was high on him or Michigan State's Jerel Worthy, until I found out that latter's Combine interviews that year left a lot to be desired. Instead, we have a fine STer in Tavon Wilson.

So if Bill passes on UConn's Reyes--who played hs ball in NH--when the need was there even then, don't get so worried about now. There's a always a FA pu like Branch.

manxman2601 said:

I like your list a lot, but I don't agree with you on Gurley. Trent Richardson has nothing to do with Gurley, you evaluate individual prospects on their own merits. Now I can understand the value argument, I just disagree with it. Seattle doesn't go to two back to back SBs without Marshawn Lynch and I think that's Gurley's best comp. I also don't think one year of Legarette Blount should stop you drafting Gurley either.

But each to their own.

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Well said !

Imagine if Adrian Peterson goes to Dallas, M Lynch retires & Gurley is still on the board when Dallas picks.

I would love to see the Patriots get the Dallas pick & steal Gurley from
The Colts & Seattle.

Gurley is no JAG.
A talent like Gurley would lessen the load on Brady & make the play action pass even more dangerous.

I want Dorial Green-Beckham there now.

Marqui said:

I want Dorial Green-Beckham there now.

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His lack of jumping ability & broad jumping ability shows he lacks burst. He also has off field issues.
I also heard he had problems learning the plays in college. There
Have been quite a few veterans who
Could not learn our complicated pass offense "Ochocinco & Galloway". If he could not learn a College playbook, there is not a chance in hell we draft him. I am. Interested to see if he made a double digit score on his wonderlic test

I am still holding out hope that bb can trade out of the first. After the first 20 or so picks, tons of second round talent.

I am hoping for erving. I just cringe everytime we select a player coming off an injury. I am fine with erving or a DT.

First, free agency will have a huge impact on the draft. Also, Hightower's surgery and 7 month recovery timeline puts him on short term IR at the start of the season. Mayo's recovery is uncertain as is his large contract!

It appears there are several DT, 3/4 DE/LB in this draft. There are not as many good O lineman. BB likes to take OT and move them inside to OG. Connoly is a URFA. I am not sold on Wendell and we have no depth at the OG position. Therefore, if everything is even, I am taking either Erving or Fisher Long shot is Poutasi.

Patriots1364life said:

I am hoping for erving. I just cringe everytime we select a player coming off an injury. I am fine with erving or a DT.

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Me too, or someone like him, a player that can play multiple positions on the offensive line basically makes them an every down player. Almost every other position is in a rotation.

Erving can maybe even start at Center, kick Stork to guard (he played some in college). Next year if Vollmer or Solder leaves Erving can kick outside.

Stork, Erving, Vollmer, Solder - pretty good mix of young and old