Patriots "pushing the envelope" reputation

Eric Wilbur wrote the following in today's Globe. http://www.boston.com/sports/column..._espn_mess_nfl_shouldnt_be_allowed_to_bu.html
It contains the following quote from Adam Schefter.

“[The fans] dislike them, I think, because of the success they’ve had, the way they’ve done it,” Scheffer (sic) said on WEEI. “At times they’ve straddled that line. They’ve pushed the envelope on certain things. I think they’ve done it because they’re smarter than everybody else, frankly. They’ve just figured out certain advantages that they know people are slow to react to.”

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We keep hearing over and over, the Pats constantly push the envelope. Can someone tell me what, outside of spygate, the Patriots have done that pushes the envelope. The Ravens complained about substitutions, but the league came out and said it was perfectly legal. The ref even helped the Ravens by telling them who not to cover. I've also heard that the Pats play games with the clock. Not sure how that works but the Ref's are responsible for the clock, not the Pats. So if the league wants to put a stop to that they have the control to do that. So please, please tell me what exactly do they do that pushes the rules and makes it so much easier to believe they deflated balls (which were also under the control of the refs).

And, if the Patriots cheat to win, then why don't they win every year?

They taped signals from the wrong location for six plays of one game in 2007. Oh the humanity.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/...orts.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34546429/14

There was this from the franchise that has never lost a game, only been screwed by the refs or the Patriots cheated.

"Then, suddenly, chaos on the sidelines. Coaches were screaming — from the opposite end of the field to where Cundiff was thinking his third-down pre-kick kicker thoughts — for the field-goal unit. The play clock was ticking and Cundiff, as per normal, was back from the sideline and farther from the line of scrimmage than his teammates. As he was not expecting to go in yet, he had to run to get into position for a game-tying kick."

The confusion stemmed from an Anquan Boldin catch-and-fumble that was mistaken for a first down. (Boldin had fumbled the ball forward past the first-down marker. The rules state the ball must be returned to the spot of the fumble, which is what happened.)

According to the Baltimore Sun's Matt Vensel, "[Terrell] Suggs said there was a discrepancy between the scoreboard at Gillette Stadium and what the officials were saying about what the down and distance was after Boldin’s fumble. The Ravens took shots at the end zone on 2nd-and-1 and 3rd-and-1 before bringing out Cundiff for a 32-yard field goal attempt."

The problem: what was actually second and third down on the field was shown on the scoreboard as first and second down, respectively. Hence Cundiff's confusion and the subsequent scrambling to get the kick off.

Which again raises the question: why didn't Harbaugh call timeout.

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You're never going to be able to reason with a Pats' hater. No need to apologize for being a fan.

In 10-20 years there will be another team that goes on a dynastic run and the sheep will migrate over to that team and scrutinize/hate everything about them. This is how American sports work. I remember the 90's when everyone hated the Cowpukes, the steroid steelers were hated and I hate the classless Steelers of today. While I'm at it f-ck the classless Ratbirds and Colts too.

It also raises the question why the Officials didn't know what down it was.

In the early 2000's the team would play with the injury report to conceal where a player was actually injured. In the Ty Law days the defensive backs exceled at bumping receivers late in their routes, which lead to the 5yd bump rule. There were allegations of New England's scoreboard being innacurate as Rusty Coupe mentioned above. Players like Wes Welker were snatched from the Dolphins with a "poison pill" contract. The preference of left footed punters is tossed around as Belichick finding small advantages. The tuck rule is often brought up as the Patriots stealing games with obscure rules, but it was actually a tuck rule in favor of the Jets earlier that season that brought it to the Pats attention. There were some allegations Patriot players were faking injuries to get timeouts some years ago, which were common accusations at defenses in close games around the league. The ineligible/eligible receiver sets were what set off the most recent discussions of the Patriots "pushing the envelope" before the Deflategate allegations.

Mostly they're there because it's a continued storyline to talk around the water cooler, and the Patriots are the most polarizing because they win so much.

Rusty Coupe said:

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/...orts.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22475988/34546429/14

There was this from the franchise that has never lost a game, only been screwed by the refs or the Patriots cheated.

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That never made much sense to me. Your a kicker, at the end of a game you know needs a kick. So it just like "Oh, it's just 3rd down guess I'll just go over here and take a nap." How the **** are you not paying attention at that point, kickers have kicked on 3rd down, everyone on the team knows the down and distance but we all need to cry a tear for poor Billy cuz he wanted to **** off and didn't pay attention.

I have no respect for that whiny ass Ravens team, every time they lose its some ******** excuse. Let's all use that excuse, we lost to the Giants cuz we weren't paying attention or something therefore the Giants cheated. Great excuse. Did these guys skip the first 15 years of life. The years when if you tried to say some weak ass ******** like that people looked at you like you're Napoleon Dynamite claiming you hunted wolverines in Alaska. If anyone tried some crybaby excuse like that on the playground they'd get their ear drums blown out from the adolescent laughter directed towards them. If they tried in HS the coach would have them running laps for loser talk while their girlfriend was ****ing someone who wins instead of cries.

But for some reason if you play for the Ballslessmore Ravens they've cultivated a culture where whiny *****es can cry together and their fans cheer. "Yay! It's not our fault we're losers, we got an excuse. See you guys next year, hope we get another great excuse!"

Hoodie said:

It also raises the question why the Officials didn't know what down it was.

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But that is using rational thought.

Suggs and Harbaugh(et al) only choose to believe the idea that the Patriots cheat, they disregard anything else.

Perception + ignorance + envy = reality.

memento said:

In the early 2000's the team would play with the injury report to conceal where a player was actually injured. In the Ty Law days the defensive backs exceled at bumping receivers late in their routes, which lead to the 5yd bump rule. There were allegations of New England's scoreboard being innacurate as Rusty Coupe mentioned above. Players like Wes Welker were snatched from the Dolphins with a "poison pill" contract. The preference of left footed punters is tossed around as Belichick finding small advantages. The tuck rule is often brought up as the Patriots stealing games with obscure rules, but it was actually a tuck rule in favor of the Jets earlier that season that brought it to the Pats attention. There were some allegations Patriot players were faking injuries to get timeouts some years ago, which were common accusations at defenses in close games around the league. The ineligible/eligible receiver sets were what set off the most recent discussions of the Patriots "pushing the envelope" before the Deflategate allegations.

Mostly they're there because it's a continued storyline to talk around the water cooler, and the Patriots are the most polarizing because they win so much.

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Not quite
Kraft added a 7th round pick to the deal, a move to placate the Phins and that was met with outrage on Patsfans as many here objected to wasting a 7th on the guy.
Great move by BB and Kraft.

Bobsyouruncle said:

They taped signals from the wrong location for six plays of one game in 2007. Oh the humanity.

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well, they were taping since prior to the belichick years. matt walsh said he started taping in 98' or so.

TommyBrady12 said:

well, they were taping since prior to the belichick years. matt walsh said he started taping in 98' or so.

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But it wasn't against the rules then.

I don't recall the poison pill contract, think they got rid of those after Martin.

BobsyourUncle and WickedPissah are right. They toyed with a poison pill contract but ultimately traded with the Dolphins. I wouldn't blame the Pats if they did offer Welker more reliable money than the Vikes and Phins were offering, even if it is called pushing the envelope.

The rumor from some guy on the Internet is that the Pats were going to offer an illegal poison pill contract but didn't. Also, I'm hearing the moon landing was faked. Both stories sound legit to me.

memento said:

In the early 2000's the team would play with the injury report to conceal where a player was actually injured. In the Ty Law days the defensive backs exceled at bumping receivers late in their routes, which lead to the 5yd bump rule. There were allegations of New England's scoreboard being innacurate as Rusty Coupe mentioned above. Players like Wes Welker were snatched from the Dolphins with a "poison pill" contract. The preference of left footed punters is tossed around as Belichick finding small advantages. The tuck rule is often brought up as the Patriots stealing games with obscure rules, but it was actually a tuck rule in favor of the Jets earlier that season that brought it to the Pats attention. There were some allegations Patriot players were faking injuries to get timeouts some years ago, which were common accusations at defenses in close games around the league. The ineligible/eligible receiver sets were what set off the most recent discussions of the Patriots "pushing the envelope" before the Deflategate allegations.

Mostly they're there because it's a continued storyline to talk around the water cooler, and the Patriots are the most polarizing because they win so much.

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Thanks, this is helpful. Several of these are silly: The Patriots didn't apply the Tuck Rule. Left footed kickers, if the team your playing has one, don't you spend the week practicing that? It just shows how crazy the reasons are but the way they are repeated by people like Schefter make it sound as though they are breaking rules.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...0275_1_dolphins-and-patriots-wes-welker-nflpa

Look they even "cheated" to get Welker! Someone tell Florio to get on the case now!

Guaranteed to get the Patriot haters arfing and clapping.

From what I recall, the Welker trade was done specifically to avoid a poison pill contract. That's why the 7th rounder was thrown in after the Fins and Pats talked about it. Gentleman's Agreement is what I remember reading. But don't let that get into the way of a good story.

4 rings. Suck it.

I listed the top accusations I could remember off the top of my head. I don't really care about their validity because I don't put a lot of weight on them anyway. I just enjoy seeing the team play.

memento said:

BobsyourUncle and WickedPissah are right. They toyed with a poison pill contract but ultimately traded with the Dolphins. I wouldn't blame the Pats if they did offer Welker more reliable money than the Vikes and Phins were offering, even if it is called pushing the envelope.

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And even if they had offered a poison pill contract, I don't get how that would've been a big deal. Poison pills were common practice in the NFL since long before the Pats got Welker, dating at least back to the Vikings' Steve Hutchinson contract and the Seahawks' Nate Burleson contract.