Patriots and OL drafting

I noticed that when the Patriots picked offensive lineman with their higher picks they went with super-athletic guys (like Solder or Vollmer). Instead in the lower rounds they prefer technician (like Stork, Ohrnberger).

Do you think that this year they will pull the trigger on another athletic raw beast like Cam Erving? Or since they don't have Scar anymore prefer technicians?

I would like very much to insert another beast at LG. What do you think?

Sorry for my poor english!

It's difficult to know what they'll do with the LG position because they've had Mankins there for so long. He was a college LT.

If they pick an OL early, I do think it will be one of the more athletic guys. It's going to come down to whether they want someone with LT feet at LG like Mankins or a bigger body at LG. Poutasi, Tomlinson and Harrison fit the latter category.

Could Cameron Erving be a good candidate as an athletic LG type?

KevinFaulk-33 said:

Could Cameron Erving be a good candidate as an athletic LG type?

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Absolutely. He's played LT before and put up good numbers yesterday. I've graded the top linemen available to us:

1. TJ Clemmings
2. Cameron Erving
3= Jake Fisher
3= DJ Humphries
3= AJ Cann
6= Ali Marpet
6= Ty Sambrailo
7. Laken Tomlinson
8. Jarvis Harrison
9. Tre Jackson

I think I'd take any of these in the first three days. The first seven (before Tomlinson) I consider LGs. Tomlinson, Harrison and Jackson are probably RGs and I'm not 100% sure we have a need there because of Wendell and Cameron Fleming.


* Not included La'el Collins, Andrus Peat or Brandon Scherff because I don't think they fall to us
* Not included Ereck Flowers because I'm not a fan.
* Not included Donovan Smith, Jamil Douglas or Jeremiah Poutasi because I'm not sure yet how they fit into the above.

manxman2601 said:

Absolutely. He's played LT before and put up good numbers yesterday. I've graded the top linemen available to us:

1. TJ Clemmings
2. Cameron Erving
3= Jake Fisher
3= DJ Humphries
3= AJ Cann
6= Ali Marpet
6= Ty Sambrailo
7. Laken Tomlinson
8. Jarvis Harrison
9. Tre Jackson

I think I'd take any of these in the first three days. The first seven (before Tomlinson) I consider LGs. Tomlinson, Harrison and Jackson are probably RGs and I'm not 100% sure we have a need there because of Wendell and Cameron Fleming.


* Not included La'el Collins, Andrus Peat or Brandon Scherff because I don't think they fall to us
* Not included Ereck Flowers because I'm not a fan.
* Not included Donovan Smith, Jamil Douglas or Jeremiah Poutasi because I'm not sure yet how they fit into the above.

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I think this is a pretty good list, and like you said in your previous post a lot is going to come down to what we are looking for in O-Lineman. Last year I think most of us were thinking we would be going to a bigger, mauling OL with Scar gone and some of the picks we made last year. In the end we had Connolly and Wendell starting on the interior.

If we are looking for a bigger, mauling OG guys like Tomlinson, Jackson and John Miller could be a fit (from what I've heard about Jarvis Harrison's football character I can't see him being a Pat). If we do go for the more athletic, mobile, pulling guard then guys like Fisher and Marpet are much better fits.

Personally I would be looking for a LT of the future that we can plug in for a year at LG and transition to LT in 2016 to replace Solder. The two guys that clearly stand out there are Clemmings and my Binky DJ Humphries. I think both have huge upside with Clemmings a physically dominating force, while Humphries is a potentially elite pass protector. Fisher has a chance to be a LT but I think he is clearly a step below these two. Erving is a really intruiging guy because he's played a lot of LT but really struggled there this year. I think he is a pro-bowl interior OL but question whether he can play OT in the NFL. He would be #3 on my list behind Humphries and Clemmings, but would jump to #1 if we extended Solder.

Wilfork#75 said:

Personally I would be looking for a LT of the future that we can plug in for a year at LG and transition to LT in 2016 to replace Solder. The two guys that clearly stand out there are Clemmings and my Binky DJ Humphries. I think both have huge upside with Clemmings a physically dominating force, while Humphries is a potentially elite pass protector. Fisher has a chance to be a LT but I think he is clearly a step below these two. Erving is a really intruiging guy because he's played a lot of LT but really struggled there this year. I think he is a pro-bowl interior OL but question whether he can play OT in the NFL. He would be #3 on my list behind Humphries and Clemmings, but would jump to #1 if we extended Solder.

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I can't see either Clemmings or Humphries being available. Erving and Jake Fisher could be options for the role you describe.

For a good writeup on Fisher, BTW, see:

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/thoughts-on-jake-fisher-and-his-fit-in-seattle

mayoclinic said:

I can't see either Clemmings or Humphries being available. Erving and Jake Fisher could be options for the role you describe.

For a good writeup on Fisher, BTW, see:

http://seahawksdraftblog.com/thoughts-on-jake-fisher-and-his-fit-in-seattle

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I unfortunately agree with you that I think Clemmings and Humphries will both likely be long gone. Fisher is certainly a guy I'm gonna have to go and watch because he did look good at the combine, I just have to see how well he can play football. He does seem like the kind of guy that could be an option.

Erving was my early favorite before I saw Humphries and I would love it if he were available at 32. I don't think he is a OT in the NFL but he is gonna be a really good OG or C. If we pick him up at 32 and plug him into LG for the next decade I'm going to be very happy.

You guys think DJ Humphries will be taken before 32 in the first? Maybe. But he looks like a perfect late first, early second type of pick. I love his nasty temperament and size/athleticism, but according to nfl.com his hand placement "is a mess." With coaching he looks like he could develop into a legitimate LT.

We need more nastiness in our Oline. Only Wendell brought that this year. All these mello yello tackles we have--Humphries is a nice change.

People don't want a guy who needs to be coached up on the O line taken early or mid first. They want plug and play. That's not Humphries. He needs to be developed, but everyone can see the value is definitely there. Ideally, he's an early or mid second-rounder IMO. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/d.j.-humphries?id=2552626

Outside of mankins, bb prefers to take interior o line guys in the fourth round and later. Normally we would have talent in the pipeline to take over when an opening occurs but I think bb may have lost confidence in what we currently have in reserve and this night be the year he takes one early.

I feel that Clemmings and Scherff would be two guys I'd trade up for if one falls past 20.

I'd be extremely comfortable staying pat with Erving(possible small trade up) at 32. There are also some other prospects I feel good about in the 2nd and 3rd. Should be their first pick but we will see how the board falls.

State said:

You guys think DJ Humphries will be taken before 32 in the first? Maybe. But he looks like a perfect late first, early second type of pick. I love his nasty temperament and size/athleticism, but according to nfl.com his hand placement "is a mess." With coaching he looks like he could develop into a legitimate LT.

We need more nastiness in our Oline. Only Wendell brought that this year. All these mello yello tackles we have--Humphries is a nice change.

People don't want a guy who needs to be coached up on the O line taken early or mid first. They want plug and play. That's not Humphries. He needs to be developed, but everyone can see the value is definitely there. Ideally, he's an early or mid second-rounder IMO. http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/d.j.-humphries?id=2552626

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Humphries is my binky this year and I'm kind of glad he didn't blow up the combine like some were expecting. I think there is a slight chance he still may be there at 32 because a lot of the other guys are getting more hype (Clemmings, Collins, Fisher) but the lack of pure LT's could push him higher. Hopefully the glut of pass rushers will push him down to us. The other major factor to watch is the medical because injuries have plagued his career. I think he is the type of guy we could see tumble on draft day out of nowhere if the medical doesn't check out.

Having said that I love the kid. I think he is the best LT in the draft, and while he might not be ready to start there in 2015, I think he could easily plug in at LG from day 1. The thing I like most about him other than his obvious athleticism is that he seems to block so well within the OL group. He understands the protections, makes quick and decisive decisions and because of his athleticism he is able to peel off blocks and pick up blitzes and stunts very well. That's why I think he could be an excellent LG as a rookie and utilize his quick feet and athleticism to pull and get to the second level. And while he played undersized throughout his college career and is adding weight now, he still has a strong initial punch and seems to play like his arms are much longer than they actually are.

I think having Googe as the OL coach since last year (when Stork, Cam Fleming, Jon Halapio were drafted) instead of Dante (when Solder asnd Vollmer were drafted) really complicates any predictions. Dante liked those really athletic guys and Googe seems to be migrating to bigger guys whose athleticism is a less important trait.

It may just be the rounds respective guys were taken. But it could be a wholesale change in philosophy in what we now look for in O-Linemen now.

Peachhead said:

I think having Googe as the OL coach since last year (when Stork, Cam Fleming, Jon Halapio were drafted) instead of Dante (when Solder asnd Vollmer were drafted) really complicates any predictions. Dante liked those really athletic guys and Googe seems to be migrating to bigger guys whose athleticism is a less important trait.

It may just be the rounds respective guys were taken. But it could be a wholesale change in philosophy in what we now look for in O-Linemen now.

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Disagree. Dante still has a big of role in personal say as he did before he retired. Seems his hand was in the pot on the Stork and the Flemming picks.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...arnecchia_returning_to_patriots_to_help_draft

Patriot Missile said:

Disagree. Dante still has a big of role in personal say as he did before he retired. Seems his hand was in the pot on the Stork and the Flemming picks.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/...arnecchia_returning_to_patriots_to_help_draft

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That doesn't mean he's looking for the same type of player as he looked for when he was OL coach. If Googe tells Dante that he wants a different sort of player than Dante preferred to coach, then Dante's going to try to find the players that fit Googe's system, not his.

I'm not sure who it was, maybe Mayo here or maybe someone on another board used to post "requirements" for the O-linemen we looked for under Dante. 3cone under a certain number, short shuttle under a certain number, 40-time under a certain number, VJ & BJ above a certain number, etc. It was pretty specific and detailed. It used to drive me a little nuts because invariably one or more of my binkys wouldn't fit the requirements. But he was always spot on. Not necessarily with specific names. But you could go back after the draft and see the players taken all fit the requirements. Players taken high fit all or almost all the target numbers, players taken later fit at least some. It was uncanny.

But last year the requirements went right out the window. The guys we took hardly fit the prior pattern at all.

Googe was the coach and they gave him Dante's guys. Dante shows up "again" the following year. Coincidence? I don't think Googe is shopping for the groceries here. He may definitely have a say, but not more so than the the coach that was here when John Hannah and Steve Grogan were playing in the Patriots first ever Super Bowl.

Patriot Missile said:

Googe was the coach and they gave him Dante's guys. Dante shows up "again" the following year. Coincidence? I don't think Googe is shopping for the groceries here. He may definitely have a say, but not more so than the the coach that was here when John Hannah and Steve Grogan were playing in the Patriots first ever Super Bowl.

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I think that when you have such an amazing former OL coach as Dante, and he still wants to help, then you will use that help. Even if it isn't him that makes the decisions. I don't think Dante helping means that Googe doesn't have a say, he certainly seems to have been able to do the things that he have wanted, like our bigger OL that we drafted last year, and moving Wendell to guard which apparantly the other coaches said was a position that he couldn't play.

I'm just gonna throw this out there as a 'not gonna happen but interesting to discuss' idea.

Would you consider trading Nate Solder this offseason?

Solder is on his 5th and final year of his rookie deal and is one of a number of players that will need contract extensions over the next 2 years. Personally I wouldn't sign him long term right now because his health scares me and I don't think he will be worth what he would command as a free agent. I think there are other players that are higher priority free agents.

If we were to trade him we would save $7.438mil against the cap which would greatly help in retaining both Revis and McCourty. And with a relatively week LT draft class, particularly at the top of the draft, we could probably get a nice pick in return.

Obviously there are a number of factors that would need to be considered, particularly:
Can Vollmer transition to LT?
Can Cannon or Fleming play RT?
Is there a long term answer at LT in the draft?
How much would this weaken the OL?

I'm not saying this is something I would do or not, I just think its an interesting idea and a patriots type move. We all know the importance of the OL to this team and their ability to keep Brady upright and I'm sure most of us want to solidify the interior OL, but would this be something you would consider?

Wilfork#75 said:

I'm just gonna throw this out there as a 'not gonna happen but interesting to discuss' idea.

Would you consider trading Nate Solder this offseason?

Solder is on his 5th and final year of his rookie deal and is one of a number of players that will need contract extensions over the next 2 years. Personally I wouldn't sign him long term right now because his health scares me and I don't think he will be worth what he would command as a free agent. I think there are other players that are higher priority free agents.

If we were to trade him we would save $7.438mil against the cap which would greatly help in retaining both Revis and McCourty. And with a relatively week LT draft class, particularly at the top of the draft, we could probably get a nice pick in return.

Obviously there are a number of factors that would need to be considered, particularly:
Can Vollmer transition to LT?
Can Cannon or Fleming play RT?
Is there a long term answer at LT in the draft?
How much would this weaken the OL?

I'm not saying this is something I would do or not, I just think its an interesting idea and a patriots type move. We all know the importance of the OL to this team and their ability to keep Brady upright and I'm sure most of us want to solidify the interior OL, but would this be something you would consider?

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I'd strongly consider trading him for roughly a mid-1st.

Seriously, Gooch thinks he's one of the 2 best LTs in the NFL along with Tyron Smith, and rates him ahead of Ryan Clady and Joe Thomas. Assuming that Gooch is not just talking out of his hat, then I don't think I'd trade him for less. Whether the Pats would consider a 2016 1st is another question.

The obvious reason to trade him, if the Pats think he's that good, would be cap space, and concerns about negotiations for a long term contract with David Dunn. If the Pats could get TJ Clemmings or DJ Humprhies with the pick - or possibly even Jake Fisher - then the long-term cap savings would potentially justify the short-term dropoff.

I just don't see resigning Solder a reality anytime soon. No matter how you spin it what he is going to command isn't going to fit into the Pats cap number. Had a shaky transition at the beginning of this season but rebounded strong to look almost like a probowler by seasons end. So yes, If the Pats can transform a player to LT like Vollmer and draft another guard or two I would say trade the beast and wish him well. Being the Champs is hard sometimes. Soon they will be looking at Hightower,Jones and Collins wondering how they are going to make it happen.

If someone would give a mid first for solder I'd do it in a heartbeat. Replacing high cap hits with lower ones equals big win.

Who would trade for him?