A Kensil smoking gun.....maybe

patfanken · Feb 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Ken,
There is no 'claim' that the weather did it, there is scientific proof. Its a fact, an unavoidable consequence of the laws of nature on this planet (as well as others I suppose)
The psi in a football changes as the temp changes. The Patriots footballs were tested when they had adjusted to room temperature. Therefore when taken outside the psi had to drop. That is not a claim or a theory but a fact.
If it is shown that the Colts balls maintained the same psi, then the only way that is physically possible is if they were adjusted to the outside temp, for example, stored on the bus overnight, and tested right after being brought inside.

If both teams balls had endured the exact same conditions and they tested at halftime and the Patriots dropped and the Colts didn't, then there was tampering. In this case, since we know the Pats balls were stored inside, either the Colts balls were stored outside up until the test, or those were the ones that were tampered with.

There is no gray area.

I'll try again, only more slowly. Andy, I am NOT disagreeing with you on the PSI. I took physics too. Like I said, its not the point of my thread. The point is that I believe the Kensil conspiracy theory, and regardless of any matter of the weather and its affects on the ball. The FACT he reinflated them proves to me (at least) he is out to get the Pats and knew that he couldn't allow those ball to tested independently because they could prove the Pats innocent (whether by the weather or not). By re-inflating the ball (when there was no need to) he essentially destroyed the best chance the Pats had to CONCLUSIVELY prove their innocence.

As to my comments on the Colts' balls being at the approved PSI, everything you stated made perfect sense. Unfortunately I've never read anything about who measured the Colts balls, when it was done or where. It was simply one of those "leaks" that came out that stated, "sources say, the Colts' balls were all within spec". So what you stated COULD be the reason that report came out (or it could just be a lie), but you'd need to know the chain of evidence to prove it.

Damned it, this is starting to sound like it needs to be on CSI Foxboro.

patfanken · Feb 20, 2015

My mind keeps going back to Grigson's presser at the Combine when he allegedly claims to have started the ball rolling on Deflategate because of they thought something fishy was going on from our game with them in November.

I can't help but wonder WHY one of the "brilliant" members of the media

didn't ask the simple question. "Hey Ryan, wasn't that game in November in Indy. And doesn't that mean that all the game balls were in YOUR control for that game. So if there was any funny business about the balls in that game, wouldn't it have had to originated with YOU?????????!!!!!!!!

:

jlu52 · Feb 20, 2015

patfanken said:
My mind keeps going back to Grigson's presser at the Combine when he allegedly claims to have started the ball rolling on Deflategate because of they thought something fishy was going on from our game with them in November.

I can't help but wonder WHY one of the "brilliant" members of the media didn't ask the simple question. "Hey Ryan, wasn't that game in November in Indy. And doesn't that mean that all the game balls were in YOUR control for that game. So if there was any funny business about the balls in that game, wouldn't it have had to originated with YOU?????????!!!!!!!! :

It seems to be only important enough to get 24/7 media coverage, mixed with just the right amount of righteous indignation, if it's the Patriots under the microscope. No one seems to give a damn about incidents and investigations of other teams (and the felons who play for them).

Patstopia · Feb 20, 2015

Unfortunately for Patriot fans, in this NFL there is no chain of evidence! There is no need for eye witnesses. There is no hearsay. There is just Goodellsay, and whatever Goodell says, is what the NFL has to do. He is large and in charge! He is Nero, there is no recourse for any team in the NFL. Thumbs up, thumbs down... all in days work for the King. Long live the King

shmessy · Feb 20, 2015

BradyManny said:
https://twitter.com/sharksofvegas

Either the next Erika Leigh or a legitimate source, depending upon your point of view. My opinion is that they have just piggy-backed guys like Schefter & Curran and guess right on which reports to piggy-back.

No.

They have been waaaayy ahead of Curran and Schefter on this from the beginning.
That first week, I was skeptical. But SoV has been consistently hitting home runs. These guys are playing real dirty with inside sources - - - and I love it.

scout · Feb 20, 2015

Patstopia said:
Unfortunately for Patriot fans, in this NFL there is no chain of evidence! There is no need for eye witnesses. There is no hearsay. There is just Goodellsay, and whatever Goodell says, is what the NFL has to do. He is large and in charge! He is Nero, there is no recourse for any team in the NFL. Thumbs up, thumbs down... all in days work for the King. Long live the King

I think your right, he is a commissioner and can do whatever he wants. OTH, he must know that Kraft has a lot of influence around the league, which might make his job security suspect.

Clonamery · Feb 20, 2015

Patstopia said:
Unfortunately for Patriot fans, in this NFL there is no chain of evidence! There is no need for eye witnesses. There is no hearsay. There is just Goodellsay, and whatever Goodell says, is what the NFL has to do. He is large and in charge! He is Nero, there is no recourse for any team in the NFL. Thumbs up, thumbs down... all in days work for the King. Long live the King

Ha. Emperor. Emperor Goodell. And the Emperor's New Clothes.

BTTA · Feb 20, 2015

fourhour said:
Who is this Sharks of Vegas guy?

https://twitter.com/SharksOfVegas/status/560959890479669248

NSFW

JoeSixPat · Feb 20, 2015

AndyJohnson said:
Ken,
There is no 'claim' that the weather did it, there is scientific proof. Its a fact, an unavoidable consequence of the laws of nature on this planet (as well as others I suppose)
The psi in a football changes as the temp changes. The Patriots footballs were tested when they had adjusted to room temperature. Therefore when taken outside the psi had to drop. That is not a claim or a theory but a fact.
If it is shown that the Colts balls maintained the same psi, then the only way that is physically possible is if they were adjusted to the outside temp, for example, stored on the bus overnight, and tested right after being brought inside.

If both teams balls had endured the exact same conditions and they tested at halftime and the Patriots dropped and the Colts didn't, then there was tampering. In this case, since we know the Pats balls were stored inside, either the Colts balls were stored outside up until the test, or those were the ones that were tampered with.

There is no gray area.

Whatever the reason I think we can say with certainty that the Colts made sure their balls would pass muster, given the fact they knew there would be, not only an inspection...

But a comparison

So all things being equal.... the differential between the Colts and Pats balls are something that should be EXPECTED to be particularly extreme on that day

That's simply the nature of the Colts knowing what was coming and making triple sure they were exceptionally well inflated

Bobsyouruncle · Feb 20, 2015

Somebody needs to look into Andrew Luck. Everytime we play the Colts he keeps trying to give the Colts balls to the Patriots.

BradyManny · Feb 20, 2015

shmessy said:
No.

They have been waaaayy ahead of Curran and Schefter on this from the beginning.
That first week, I was skeptical. But SoV has been consistently hitting home runs. These guys are playing real dirty with inside sources - - - and I love it.

Shmessy I'd love you to be right - but go back through their tweets. The day Curran puts out a piece first mentioning Kensil, later that day SoV says "Kensil...remember that name" as if its some revelation. The day Schefter says some people believe the Colts deflated that ball, later that day SoV says "we hear some people think the Colts deflated the ball..." Go look at the tweets - they did nothing but piggyback those two guys and then take credit later when people RT'd them and said "you guys have been on this for weeks!!" Nope. Curran mentioned Kensil first. Schefter mentioned Colts shenanigans on the sideline first.

The only unique prediction the guy's made was that the investigation was more on the officials. Which, I think they were right only by accident (the term officials is ambiguous in their favor in this case). If they had known about the charity ball thing, they could've been more specific.

They were wrong about no sanctions coming the Patriots way and it being announced at the end of week one. We've seen this kind of internet source before.

RayClay · Feb 20, 2015

Danger Zone said:
I believe they are a sports betting consulting business.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say they have actual league sources plus Fitzy follows them, which is all the affirmation I need..

Could be.

Honestly, at the beginning of all this, I just wanted to surround myself with someone that felt like they were on our side in all this. I've keep following them because I feel they've either guessed right or simply been right much more often than most.

The league is probably owned by freaking gamblers.

Rob0729 · Feb 20, 2015

There

BradyManny said:
Shmessy I'd love you to be right - but go back through their tweets. The day Curran puts out a piece first mentioning Kensil, later that day SoV says "Kensil...remember that name" as if its some revelation. The day Schefter says some people believe the Colts deflated that ball, later that day SoV says "we hear some people think the Colts deflated the ball..." Go look at the tweets - they did nothing but piggyback those two guys and then take credit later when people RT'd them and said "you guys have been on this for weeks!!" Nope. Curran mentioned Kensil first. Schefter mentioned Colts shenanigans on the sideline first.

The only unique prediction the guy's made was that the investigation was more on the officials. Which, I think they were right only by accident (the term officials is ambiguous in their favor in this case). If they had known about the charity ball thing, they could've been more specific.

They were wrong about no sanctions coming the Patriots way and it being announced at the end of week one. We've seen this kind of internet source before.

In fairness, he did say that the investigation was looking at the league officials weeks before Schefter reported that a league official... umm, sorry NFLRA... employee was fired for switching out a kicking ball that he was trying to steal. It could be just a lucky coincidence or he might have some inside information.

Ivan · Feb 20, 2015

BradyManny said:
They were wrong about no sanctions coming the Patriots way and it being announced at the end of week one. We've seen this kind of internet source before.

I don't think you can blame anyone for being wrong about the length of the investigation because no one expected it to take the turns it did. And if Wells does his job properly then he is focused on the extracurricular activities that went on with NFL employees instead of the Patriots, and that's why it is taking longer.

As for sanctions how can they be wrong about no sanctions when none have been handed down and any that are shouldn't be directed at the Patriots?

SlowGettingUp · Feb 21, 2015

patfanken said:
I mean why would he "taint the evidence" What was the purpose. Its not like these were the only balls at the stadium and if they took them out of the game, they wouldn't have enough.

Each team's game balls are very carefully prepared to the liking of their quarterback. So no question that he had to keep these same balls, and also no question that he should bring them up to spec.

Given the Colts (or at least their GM) knew they might raise the inflation issue, it is certainly plausible they initially pumped their balls to the maximum. So that gives you a 1 PSI delta over the Patriot balls (Brady likes them at the bottom of the range). Next, if the Patriots were working on the balls (by buffing them) right before they were first inflated and checked, that could give you another 1 PSI differential (per the Belichick press conference). Finally, as mentioned earlier, the Colts footballs could have started out cold (from the bus) when they were first checked. If so, that could give about another 1 PSI differential. Any two of these could give you the likely requisite 2 PSI differential that made the Colts balls in spec and the Patriots balls out of spec at half-time.

rochrist · Feb 21, 2015

patfanken said:
My mind keeps going back to Grigson's presser at the Combine when he allegedly claims to have started the ball rolling on Deflategate because of they thought something fishy was going on from our game with them in November.

I can't help but wonder WHY one of the "brilliant" members of the media didn't ask the simple question. "Hey Ryan, wasn't that game in November in Indy. And doesn't that mean that all the game balls were in YOUR control for that game. So if there was any funny business about the balls in that game, wouldn't it have had to originated with YOU?????????!!!!!!!! :

That isn't the way the offensive balls work though, is it? I was under the impression that each team supplies it's own offensive balls.

VectorPrime · Feb 21, 2015

rochrist said:
That isn't the way the offensive balls work though, is it? I was under the impression that each team supplies it's own offensive balls.

That's correct but they are then given to the officials 2 hours before the game. The officials then have control of the balls until 10 minutes before kick off when they give them all to a stadium official chosen by the home team. So in Indy this would be someone chosen by the Colts, and this person would then deliver the balls to the sideline ballboys on each team. This means that the Patriots would have had 0 opportunity to even touch the balls prior to receiving them on the sidelines. So the 90 seconds pissgate to magically deflate all the balls could not be an orchestrated event in every game, let alone in one which is already stupid as all hell to believe in.

Dr Pain · Feb 21, 2015

VectorPrime said:
That's correct but they are then given to the officials 2 hours before the game. The officials then have control of the balls until 10 minutes before kick off when they give them all to a stadium official chosen by the home team. So in Indy this would be someone chosen by the Colts, and this person would then deliver the balls to the sideline ballboys on each team. This means that the Patriots would have had 0 opportunity to even touch the balls prior to receiving them on the sidelines. So the 90 seconds pissgate to magically deflate all the balls could not be an orchestrated event in every game, let alone in one which is already stupid as all hell to believe in.

We need to hammer this home in twitter in response to the Colts GM's claim they noticed something in November. The Colts controlled the balls in November at Indy.

patfanken · Feb 21, 2015

and s0 an active thread is moved to a place where threads go to die. Does this make any sense, Mods?

Ring 6 · Feb 21, 2015

patfanken said:
I'll try again, only more slowly. Andy, I am NOT disagreeing with you on the PSI. I took physics too. Like I said, its not the point of my thread. The point is that I believe the Kensil conspiracy theory, and regardless of any matter of the weather and its affects on the ball. The FACT he reinflated them proves to me (at least) he is out to get the Pats and knew that he couldn't allow those ball to tested independently because they could prove the Pats innocent (whether by the weather or not). By re-inflating the ball (when there was no need to) he essentially destroyed the best chance the Pats had to CONCLUSIVELY prove their innocence.

As to my comments on the Colts' balls being at the approved PSI, everything you stated made perfect sense. Unfortunately I've never read anything about who measured the Colts balls, when it was done or where. It was simply one of those "leaks" that came out that stated, "sources say, the Colts' balls were all within spec". So what you stated COULD be the reason that report came out (or it could just be a lie), but you'd need to know the chain of evidence to prove it.

Damned it, this is starting to sound like it needs to be on CSI Foxboro.

I know what your point was, I am saying you are missing the point that they were definitely underinflated. That is unquestionable. I don't see how inflating them changes anything.

Also, all of your comments are still based on leaks, rumor and conjecture.
We still do not know what happened. We do not know who measured the psi, what they found, and who inflated the balls. Your presumptions are based on some rumors being true and others being false.
We just have to wait until the report comes out to know what is fact, and then draw conclusions.
For example, you have an entire theory on why Kensil inflated the balls, and we do not even know for sure that he did.

A Kensil smoking gun.....maybe

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