2/17 Rumor: Pats' locker room attendant tried to put unapproved kicking ball in AFCCG

So now the league was alerted about Deflategate because the refs caught a ball boy giving out an unapproved ball AND Ryan Grigson complained to the Kensil that the intercepted ball was underinflated. Troy Vincent already confirmed the investigation was started because Grigson complained.

This whole investigation stinks to high heaven. The league wants everyone to shut up about this yet consistently leaks conflicting and damaging evidence against the Patriots. They are looking to bring the Pats down and they know they can't since they have no evidence.

Anyone who thinks the Pats will be exonerated or that the league will investigate the Colts if the only ball that was 2 PSI under are kidding themselves. The league is going to issue a report that is basically going to say the Pats cheated, but they can't prove it.

The report will be a lose/lose for the Pats and Goodell. The Pats will be given the stigma of cheating without proof and Goodell will be out of a job the next chance that Kraft has an opportunity to oust him.

jmt57 said:

Tweet from ESPN Sports Center at 9:17 pm on Feb 17:

Patriots locker-room attendant tried to put unapproved kicking ball into AFC title game, sources familiar w/ investigation tell @OTLonESPN.​

https://twitter.com/SportsCenter/status/567870559293415425


The world wide leader is going to beat this dead horse until it turns into chalk.

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i just read this an investigation by bspn, a sad, pathetic, attempt to further to disgrace the pats while keeping the story going to the point its comical. BSPN has now become a tabloid. its like the inquirer, or the ny post.

Continued... The only hope for the Pats is that the investigation is going against Kensil, Grigson, or someone one else in the league or the Colts organization and they leaked this report to raise more suspicion against the Pats so that if the report exonerates the Pats and put the heat on them that they can create an assumption of cover up. I don't know how likely that would be, but it is a very remote possibility.

Doesn't seem the media will back off until Tom and Bill are dragging their crosses to the hilltop. Eff the media and their crusade to smear our team, super bowl champs *****es.

Rob0729 said:

Anyone who thinks the Pats will be exonerated or that the league will investigate the Colts if the only ball that was 2 PSI under are kidding themselves. The league is going to issue a report that is basically going to say the Pats cheated, but they can't prove it.

The report will be a lose/lose for the Pats and Goodell. The Pats will be given the stigma of cheating without proof and Goodell will be out of a job the next chance that Kraft has an opportunity to oust him.

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Agree completely, Rob.

However, there is one thing in the Patriots' favor: the Columbia scientists have by now made both theoretical and experimental calculations that in all likelihood exonerate the Patriots. Unless the NFL has explicitly told Columbia that they cannot release their results independently - which I find unlikely Columbia would agree to - the scientists will be able to show their methods and findings. These would unambiguously confirm the Patriots innocence and render the NFL's allegations ridiculous. I do not expect them to gain traction in the court of the public opinion, nor would I expect the scientists to make a deal out of it.

borg said:

ESPN references 4 sources

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Sources were referenced with every leak, several contradicted earlier leaks. Do you believe each leak as they come? Is every new leak that contradicts the preceding one the one to be believed because its the most recent? It seems to me that the new leaks keep getting introduced because the prior ones keep getting some pretty good challenges to their validity. The goal posts keep getting moved? Why do you think that is?

borg said:

McNally winking at Brady
Brady attempts high five

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I believe the caption under that picture suggests McNally is the guy at the bottom right (below Brady) not the guy at top left...I am sure the implied high five with Brady is strictly accidental (*BS*cough*BS)

Even if there were any truth to the low PSI scandal, any thoughts that the Pats benefited from the alleged "cheating" is rendered moot with the second half trouncing of the Colts and the win over the vaunted Seahawks in the SB.

BradyManny said:

Agree completely, Rob.

However, there is one thing in the Patriots' favor: the Columbia scientists have by now made both theoretical and experimental calculations that in all likelihood exonerate the Patriots. Unless the NFL has explicitly told Columbia that they cannot release their results independently - which I find unlikely Columbia would agree to - the scientists will be able to show their methods and findings. These would unambiguously confirm the Patriots innocence and render the NFL's allegations ridiculous. I do not expect them to gain traction in the court of the public opinion, nor would I expect the scientists to make a deal out of it.

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Except Bill Nye the Science Guy and Neil deGrasse Tyson said that it is impossible to happen naturally. Those guys are on TV. So they are bettter experts than scientists who are actually in the field of science that pertains to the topic. The Wells investigation will apply more weight them.

And the court of public opinion have the Pats guilty no matter what the findings are. If the league declared the Pats 100% innocent, people will just cry cover up.

Rob0729 said:

Except Bill Nye the Science Guy and Neil deGrasse Tyson said that it is impossible to happen naturally. Those guys are on TV. So they are bettter experts than scientists who are actually in the field of science that pertains to the topic. The Wells investigation will apply more weight them.

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NdT later corrected himself after several readers pointed out he made a mistake using gauge pressure, the same mistake Bill Nye made but never admitted to making. I'm not saying people will pay it any mind if/when Columbia releases its data, but it is something Patriot fans can point to.

borg said:

Bury your head in the sand if that gets you through the day.
The reality here is a Pats employee attempted to introduce an illegal ball into the game and got busted. And because he got busted on the sidelines, the official IMMEDIATELY notified NFL executives who IMMEDIATELY launched an investigation which IMMEDIATELY uncovered 11 irregular PATRIOTS game balls. Given these facts and the emphatic denial by the owner, I dare speculate that the media will be foaming at the mouth. Guess that's trolling. Sorry I'm not adhering to the local fanboy party line right now. I was all on board prior to this article...a "few ticks off" was I'll I needed to poo poo this controversy. This new info changes my stance. Sorry this displeases you.

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I don’t necessarily think you’re trolling but you do appear to shift with the winds. If all it took for you to shift position was a leak from ESPN, who has a bunch of skin in this game, then I suspect you were never really committed to the Patriot claims of innocence.

BradyManny said:

NdT later corrected himself after several readers pointed out he made a mistake using gauge pressure, the same mistake Bill Nye made but never admitted to making. I'm not saying people will pay it any mind if/when Columbia releases its data, but it is something Patriot fans can point to.

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If you read Tyson's apology, he admitted that he was wrong BUT even with the right calculations he says the Pats are full of crap. Granted he was going on the assumption all the balls were 2 PSI under, but in the court of public opinion it doesn't matter.

Here is what Tyson wrote in his apology:

This is simply an oversight on my part, and I'm glad so many stepped forward to correct it. But what it means is that the Patriots would simply need to have inflated the balls with (more accessible) 90 degree air rather than 125 degree air. A delightfully moot point since neither temperature absolves the NE Patriots even as we all know that the NE Patriots, in their 45 to 7 victory over the Colts, would have won the game no matter the ball pressure.

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https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613

It is a typical "I am right even if my facts are wrong" apology.

Rob0729 said:

If you read Tyson's apology, he admitted that he was wrong BUT even with the right calculations he says the Pats are full of crap. Granted he was going on the assumption all the balls were 2 PSI under, but in the court of public opinion it doesn't matter.

Here is what Tyson wrote in his apology:



https://www.facebook.com/notes/neil-degrasse-tyson/deflategate/10153074004496613

It is a typical "I am right even if my facts are wrong" apology.

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That is the crux of it.

Even in his "correction", Dr. degrasse Tyson clung to the assumption that all the footballs were 2.0 PSi below 12.5 - - that all the Patriots' footballs came in at 10.5 PSi.

He knows better than to use innuendo - he just chose to "believe" Mort's unsubstantiated report that all the footballs were at least 2 PSi below minimum.

There is no excuse for a scientist who proclaims himself as only seeking the truth to conduct himself in the manner that Neil deGrasse Tyson did in this case.

I lost all respect for him and his work - - how CAN I now believe his teachings if I can see so clearly how he treats the beginning evidence?

All I know is that it's time for another installment of............

WHAT WOULD HITLER DO?



Bob...........

shmessy said:

I lost all respect for him and his work - - how CAN I now believe his teachings if I can see so clearly how he treats the beginning evidence?

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NdT is just a popularizer, but in his defense, some very legitimate scientists (including a couple fellows from Columbia) who were asked their opinion on the matter went from the 2 psi assumption. If they are asked "can a 25 degree temperature drop explain a 2 PSI drop?" - then they would say no, and would not be wrong to do so. Scientists need to err on being very literal.

However, they are not considering - or being asked to be consider - other factors such as the wet ball, deflation during gauging, and the fact that not all balls were necessarily 2 PSI under.

The certainty with which NdT insinuated the Patriots are cheating is what separates him from an actual scientist. And Bill Nye not being able to admit a freshman mistake in his calculations is what separates him from an actual scientist turned popularizer in NdT.

Let's just wait and see what Columbia says.

Question, and apologies if this has already been brought up: aren't the K balls used by both teams? 12 footballs that are randomly chosen for special teams for both squads? What am I missing here?

I know Curran's article does a good job breaking down this latest non-story, but I didn't see that point mentioned. If true, there's even less reason for the Patriots to somehow introduce a non-approved football into the K-ball cycle. Never mind that the balls are randomly chosen from a bag, but both teams use the same balls! (if, again, I've read the rules correctly)

Seriously how is a guy handing the ref the wrong ball a story? Its like claiming I robbed a bank when I gave a teller a deposit slip without any cash.

At this point is anyone still paying attention? I have a hard time getting flustered over ANOTHER leak, which seems to AGAIN conflict with previous reports.

hambone1818 said:

Question, and apologies if this has already been brought up: aren't the K balls used by both teams? 12 footballs that are randomly chosen for special teams for both squads? What am I missing here?

I know Curran's article does a good job breaking down this latest non-story, but I didn't see that point mentioned. If true, there's even less reason for the Patriots to somehow introduce a non-approved football into the K-ball cycle. Never mind that the balls are randomly chosen from a bag, but both teams use the same balls! (if, again, I've read the rules correctly)

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Problem is, people won't think about the whole thing more than 5 seconds to realize how illogical the accusation is.

I'm not sure about the K-ball rules myself. It would be good to get clarification. But as we've seen in this story, clarifications and common sense mean little. The NFL is winning the battle for the court of the public opinion by banking on the sensationalism of the media, and the stupidity of the consumers of media. It guessed right on both accounts. Guess they can do something effectively, after all.

Rob0729 said:

Except Bill Nye the Science Guy and Neil deGrasse Tyson said that it is impossible to happen naturally. Those guys are on TV. So they are bettter experts than scientists who are actually in the field of science that pertains to the topic. The Wells investigation will apply more weight them.

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And Nye is an avowed Seachicken fan, so he's not unbiased, either.

This story is making less sense the more I think about it.

I was hoping it would resolve the question of why Kensil measured the balls in the first place, but I do not see how we are any closer to an answer for that.

Official: The ball attendant handed me the wrong K ball.
Kensil: Quick, let's measure all their offensive balls and make sure they aren't under inflated!

Does not compute.

I will say, the conflicting reports & repeated attempts at justification for measuring the Patriots balls are very curious.