Contracts to deal with

McClusky · Feb 17, 2015

Siliga is an ERFA, what do you guys think a good extension looks like for him. He's still only 24 and has given us nothing but good football when he's out on the field.

Deus Irae · Feb 17, 2015

patfanken said:
...
4. As for Vince, his recovery from his injury in 2013 was nothing short of remarkable. To say his play didn't exceed my highest expectations, would be a lie. However, even though he played the snaps he needed to reach his incentives, to say that his productivity on the field equaled that of what he gave us in 2010-12 would also be a lie. Vince was NOT the immoveable force in the middle that he used to be when he EARNED that big contract The Vince Wilfolk we saw in 2014 was NOT an elite DT, and $8.5MM is still elite money.

5. So the question becomes, not if Wilfok needs to take a cut, but is he willing to do it, and under what conditions can it be done. The obvious way would be to create a contract that would pay him that $8,5MM if he meets the production goals that would mean he'd earned it, while giving the Pats about $3-4MM in cap relief now.

Many think he wouldn't be willing to do it again. I say why not. Does anyone realistically think anyone is going to just hand $8MM guaranteed to a 35 year old DT who, while being still decent, is no longer elite. It's the classic Logan Mankins metaphor.

So what you do is show "some" love. You give him something. You give him a $3MM bonus on 3/10, with a $1MM salary that becomes guaranteed on 9/1. That's about what his current value is right now. The rest he earns if he can reach an elite level again. That I think is a fair deal and show a level of respect for his past services...

Vince just played on a contract that was laden with incentives. He hit them all (well, for 2014). That makes it more difficult to do another incentive-laden deal, so how would he be able to 'earn' elite money?

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Wilfork was not "great" this past season. He was mediocre. Not consistently double teamed this year, he offered next to nothing in terms of pass rush.

"DT Vince Wilfork: Don't be stunned if the Patriots cut Wilfork. It would be cold blooded, but releasing Wilfork could save over $8 million in cap room, and he was a so-so starter this season. It would be a very "on to 2015" Patriots move."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...riots-offseason-forecast?campaign=Twitter_atl

How can a 34 year old Wilfork be worth $8.5M while a 29 year old Knighton is worth only $6M a year over 5 years?

"The Post floats five years and $30 million as a potential price tag for Knighton, who is one of the NFL's premier run stuffers. Knighton will be 29 before the 2015 season."

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football

Sciz · Feb 17, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
How can a 34 year old Wilfork be worth $8.5M while a 29 year old Knighton is worth only $6M a year over 5 years?

"The Post floats five years and $30 million as a potential price tag for Knighton, who is one of the NFL's premier run stuffers. Knighton will be 29 before the 2015 season."

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/nfl/football

For one thing, you can't ignore how his Jaguars career ended. He showed up for workouts at 370 pounds, got into a bar brawl that required eye surgery, and was then benched out of the starting lineup. I know he's done good things for the Broncos the last two years, but that's a risky long term investment if I've ever seen one.

Marinlik · Feb 17, 2015

Sciz said:
For one thing, you can't ignore how his Jaguars career ended. He showed up for workouts at 370 pounds, got into a bar brawl that required eye surgery, and was then benched out of the starting lineup. I know he's done good things for the Broncos the last two years, but that's a risky long term investment if I've ever seen one.

Put in a weight and "no bar brawl" clause then.

For what I've seen the last two years I'd rather have Knighton for $6M a year than Wilfork for $8M.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Sciz said:
For one thing, you can't ignore how his Jaguars career ended. He showed up for workouts at 370 pounds, got into a bar brawl that required eye surgery, and was then benched out of the starting lineup. I know he's done good things for the Broncos the last two years, but that's a risky long term investment if I've ever seen one.

Put in a weight clause......and 370 pounds?? lol. Do you really think that wilfork weighs 325 pounds?

Deus Irae · Feb 17, 2015

Sciz said:
For one thing, you can't ignore how his Jaguars career ended. He showed up for workouts at 370 pounds, got into a bar brawl that required eye surgery, and was then benched out of the starting lineup. I know he's done good things for the Broncos the last two years, but that's a risky long term investment if I've ever seen one.

Knighton also played in less than 50% of the Broncos defensive snaps, while Wilfork played in more than 70% of the Patriots defensive snaps.

Sciz · Feb 17, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
Put in a weight clause......and 370 pounds?? lol. Do you really think that wilfork weighs 325 pounds?

I don't know, are there any contracts with major weight clauses or with voided guaranteed money based on weigh-ins? I know Wilfork's weight bonus is $300k, and my concern with a guy like Knighton would be that if he shows up 35 pounds overweight, then he misses the $300k bonus but you're still paying him $5.5M a year or whatever. The actual weight bonus itself is minor if you're not getting the quality of play that's expected.

Maybe Miguel can give more specifics on Wilfork's weight clause and whether he has earned them each year, but Wilfork said in 2010 that his weight requirement was 325 and that "I never have any problem" and "It's not a big deal." He was adamant during media week that he is in fact still 325.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Sciz said:
I don't know, are there any contracts with major weight clauses or with voided guaranteed money based on weigh-ins? I know Wilfork's weight bonus is $300k, and my concern with a guy like Knighton would be that if he shows up 35 pounds overweight, then he misses the $300k bonus but you're still paying him $5.5M a year or whatever. The actual weight bonus itself is minor if you're not getting the quality of play that's expected.

Maybe Miguel can give more specifics on Wilfork's weight clause and whether he has earned them each year, but Wilfork said in 2010 that his weight requirement was 325 and that "I never have any problem" and "It's not a big deal." He was adamant during media week that he is in fact still 325.

If he's 325 pounds then I'm 175 pounds and I can guarantee you that I'm nowhere near 175 pounds.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/01/vince-wilfork-helps-car-crash-victim

notex · Feb 17, 2015

I think I am in the minority, but I think we ask big Vince to take a massive paycut (he's not worth more than 3-4m, if that) or cut him outright. Unfortunately, I think Vince is going to throw his toys out of the pram like he did last year and this won't end pretty.. he doesn't seem to be able to separate business from emotion very well and takes things quite personal...at the end of the day, I bet even with a re-structure he would make above market value.

I know folks will get all over me for suggesting the "Old Yeller" treatment, but Wilfork doesn't have the on-field impact he used to, and he has just lost a HUGE bargaining chip, which was being one of only a few players on the roster with SB winning experience (we a full roster of those now).

Mayo, I think BB puts a higher price tag on.. Smart/Versatile LBs have always been the core to our success (besides Tom Brady) -- and I seem him as being a bit more pragmatic/less emotional than Vince. Could be wrong, but he has lost a lot of his bargaining power as well with us winning a SB without him and the emergence of Collins and Hightower.

Ivan · Feb 17, 2015

I guess you are 175 then because Wilfork met all of his incentives, and the Patriots don't just give money away.

Beyond that your claim that Wilfork was mediocre is total crap. The Patriots spent most of the season in sub packages and Wilfork played over 75℅ of the defensive snaps, which demonstrates great versatility for a DT. He earned everything he made and Belichick thought enough of him to play him more than any DT on their roster, and he breaks down every play he is in for.

I have no problem with those who say he is on the backside of his career or with the desire to see him restructure, but those claiming he was just average this season are talking out of their asses and making sh.t up to fit their agenda. Most didn't want him back this year and are just repeating the same garbage they spewed last offseason.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Ivan said:
I guess you are 175 then because Wilfork met all of his incentives, and the Patriots don't just give money away.

Beyond that your claim that Wilfork was mediocre is total crap. The Patriots spent most of the season in sub packages and Wilfork played over 75℅ of the defensive snaps, which demonstrates great versatility for a DT. He earned everything he made and Belichick thought enough of him to play him more than any DT on their roster, and he breaks down every play he is in for.

I have no problem with those who say he is on the backside of his career or with the desire to see him restructure, but those claiming he was just average this season are talking out of their asses and making sh.t up to fit their agenda. Most didn't want him back this year and are just repeating the same garbage they spewed last offseason.

He was mediocre this past year. Show me the "hordes" of people outside of Patriotsland that say he played "great" this entire past season. I've linked someone who agrees with me. Would you like to see more?

"Even though Wilfork had some very strong games this year to go with some weaker ones -- notably against the Ravens in the playoffs -- he did not play up to his salary in 2014. The gap between salary and performance would likely grow even wider in 2015"

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/22500/will-patriots-cut-vince-wilfork.php

"Vince Wilfork‘s cap number for 2015 jumps up to nearly $9MM, and the Patriots could save most of that total by cutting him this offseason, as Cole observes. Given Wilfork’s shaky performance down the stretch (he recorded a -6.0 grade in the postseason, per Pro Football Focus) and New England’s tendency to cut ties with longtime contributors when they’re no longer providing value, that doesn’t necessarily bode well for the big defensive lineman."

http://www.profootballrumors.com/coles-latest-browns-draft-revis-wilfork/

"Wilfork is due a $4-million roster bonus on March 10 and is scheduled to have a 2015 total cap figure of $8.9 million. The Patriots need to decide how much they value their best defensive lineman, who is 33. The Patriots approached Wilfork to restructure last offseason and it got messy (Wilfork asked to be released before agreeing to a restructure), but still seems like it would be in their best interest to approach him once again. If they can’t come to an agreement, defensive tackle will be a priority in free agency."

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/article/20150209/SPORTS/150209422/101224?template=printart

Ivan · Feb 17, 2015

Lmao- you linked to "fantasy pros." I'm guessing Wilfork went low in your "draft......"

Lmfao

Belichick thought he was good and that's all that matters. That's why he reached Every incentive

McClusky · Feb 17, 2015

Whether Vince comes back or not his workload needs to be reduced. He's really hurting us on passing downs at this point in his career. I hope Easley is able to cannibalize his role a bit.

Ivan · Feb 17, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
He was mediocre this past year. Show me the "hordes" of people outside of Patriotsland that say he played "great" this entire past season. I've linked someone who agrees with me. Would you like to see more?

"Even though Wilfork had some very strong games this year to go with some weaker ones -- notably against the Ravens in the playoffs -- he did not play up to his salary in 2014. The gap between salary and performance would likely grow even wider in 2015"

http://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/news/22500/will-patriots-cut-vince-wilfork.php

"Vince Wilfork‘s cap number for 2015 jumps up to nearly $9MM, and the Patriots could save most of that total by cutting him this offseason, as Cole observes. Given Wilfork’s shaky performance down the stretch (he recorded a -6.0 grade in the postseason, per Pro Football Focus)t

Lmao-PFF

You think I should listen to the people who think Manning is better than Brady and use PFF as my guide?

Now I understand why you think Wilfork sucks, you v aren't talking about real football.

Now that I know where you are coming from you are right, they should get rid of Wilfork and replace him with Jamal Charles

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Ivan said:
Lmao- you linked to "fantasy pros." I'm guessing Wilfork went low in your "draft......"

Lmfao

Belichick thought he was good and that's all that matters. That's why he reached Every incentive

Ok, so I linked 4 sources...u dismissed one.....that leaves 3. You have nothing. Not a surprise.

I'm fine with letting Belichick decide ( as it should be) and I hope he does what he's done almost exclusively in the past which is not to overpay veterans.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 17, 2015

Ivan said:
Lmao-PFF

You think I should listen to the people who think Manning is better than Brady and use PFF as my guide?

Now I understand why you think Wilfork sucks, you v aren't talking about real football.

Now that I know where you are coming from you are right, they should get rid of Wilfork and replace him with Jamal Charles

I don't participate in fantasy football and I never said that Wilfork "sucks". I've said....he wasn't "great" last year (which is true, he was mediocre) and I said he wasn't worth anywhere near $8.5M in cap space.

I would gladly take him back at a reduced rate to reflect his current value going into the 2015 season.

Bourne Again Christian · Feb 17, 2015

Would not pay Vince more than 3.5 Million he is a warrior and he has earned every penny.
The fact of the matter is this orginization has been quick to part one year early with aging bloated contracts rather than a year to late.
That's the difference from winning a Superbowl vs going out in the first round.

Ivan · Feb 17, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
Ok, so I linked 4 sources...u dismissed one.....that leaves 3. You have nothing. Not a surprise.

I'm fine with letting Belichick decide ( as it should be) and I hope he does what he's done almost exclusively in the past which is not to overpay veterans.

Explain how he overpaid him when he literally earned every cent he made last season?

You have been saying this for quite a while yet Belichick thought he was good enough to play over 75% of the snaps despite being in sub packages most of . the time. The bottom line seems to be that because he's not a pass rusher he must not be very good.

As I have said numerous times I have no problem with people wanting to see him restructure, I would like it as all, but when people keep claiming he isn't very good they are talking out of there asses. It's no different than those who called Ninkovich the worst starter in the league, it isn't based in reality it's based upon superficial rhetoric.

Ivan · Feb 17, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
I don't participate in fantasy football and I never said that Wilfork "sucks". I've said....he wasn't "great" last year (which is true, he was mediocre) and I said he wasn't worth anywhere near $8.5M in cap space.

I would gladly take him back at a reduced rate to reflect his current value going into the 2015 season.

Then why use a fantasy site to make your point? You link to PFF and "fantasy pros" as your sources to discuss a DT. That makes no sense at all.

And explain how he isn't worth what he made when it was incentive based and he reached them all? That's the definition of "earning your pay."

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