Welker and Edelman

SammyBlueCat · Feb 15, 2015

Occasionally a poster or two on this forum will make Wes Welker out to be a pill of crap. That simply is not fair. His performance and his character while he wore the Patriot uniform were impeccable. (I know he missed a crucial catch against the Giants - he is short.) Age and wear-n-tear made it unfeasible for him to stay at a very high rate of pay.

JoeSixPat · Feb 15, 2015

SammyBlueCat said:
Occasionally a poster or two on this forum will make Wes Welker out to be a pill of crap. That simply is not fair. His performance and his character while he wore the Patriot uniform were impeccable. (I know he missed a crucial catch against the Giants - he is short.) Age and wear-n-tear made it unfeasible for him to stay at a very high rate of pay.

The issue of how Welker was (overly)used actually has more to do with play calling and/or Brady's over-reliance on him. Welker can't be blamed for that.

The fact that Welker typically makes the difficult catches that he failed to make when a Super Bowl was on the line? Again, there's some shared ownership there - but the fact of the matter is he didn't make the catches and I'm sure he'd own that.

The bottom line - the Patriots are better off with a more diverse offense and more versatile WR in Edelman than Welker - as good as Welker was.

That difference is measured in a Super Bowl ring

LeoparCT · Feb 15, 2015

Zuma said:
Great stats ivanvamp. Welker was extremely productive for us as you mentioned. Edelman on the other hand may be more talented. In Bill I trust.

This 1000%

Welker could catches a million balls but the only 1 that matters in his career is the 1 that hit him right on both hands and he dropped. Edelman could have a 50% catch rate and I'd still trust him more in the biggest moments.

NormZauchin · Feb 16, 2015

MassPats38 said:
I believe some of this is the natural inclination to seek out a sense of loyalty to players, and pay out of a sense of nostalgia. The same is often true of this 'traitor' discussion when a player leaves. The best teams can see the value in players, and what a player is truly worth to the organization in a given year. The Pats are a cold, ruthless organization when it comes to contract management, but that is what it takes to successfully put a quality team on the field under a salary cap restraint. That does not reflect the organization as a whole in all aspects of its relationship with players and former players. This is a business in the end. The measure of a successful business in the NFL is winning, and the Pats have done just that for a very long time.

Belichick is not always cold and ruthless. Toward some players who have had long careers with the Patriots, he has kept them on a year past their shelf life. This applies to Troy Brown, Kevin Faulk, and Deion Branch.

TheBostonStraggler · Feb 16, 2015

MassPats38 said:
I believe some of this is the natural inclination to seek out a sense of loyalty to players, and pay out of a sense of nostalgia. The same is often true of this 'traitor' discussion when a player leaves. The best teams can see the value in players, and what a player is truly worth to the organization in a given year. The Pats are a cold, ruthless organization when it comes to contract management, but that is what it takes to successfully put a quality team on the field under a salary cap restraint. That does not reflect the organization as a whole in all aspects of its relationship with players and former players. This is a business in the end. The measure of a successful business in the NFL is winning, and the Pats have done just that for a very long time.

I think there is truth in this, however, it's from a nicer viewpoint. The colder truth is, IMHO, some people like 'Player X' and don't want them to leave. It's a 'pay them whatever just don't take away from me someone I like' gut feeling versus the higher minded 'he's played well so I want him to make more money'. Of course
these are examples from the same knee jerk crowd who then will cry for BB and others heads because the team isn't playing as well as they would like. They don't consider the big picture or longer term ramifications, they just want what they like without it being complicated. Hmmm, I believe these people would be called 'the average voter' too

Jackson 2 · Feb 16, 2015

NormZauchin said:
Belichick is not always cold and ruthless. Toward some players who have had long careers with the Patriots, he has kept them on a year past their shelf life. This applies to Troy Brown, Kevin Faulk, and Deion Branch.

Correct and, very likely, Tedy Bruschi.

LeoparCT · Feb 16, 2015

Welker ultimately didn't have love for the system here if he did then he would've reacted like the Vrabels, Branch, McGinest, etc that were traded or left and always had respect for this coach and the system. Welker the second he left acted like he was a diva that the nasty old Belichick held back for years. The problem is welker has a personality as exciting as watching paint dry. If he shut his mouth and acting with more class I guarantee a lot of fans myself included would hold him in higher esteem even if he chose our rival.

FourierSeries · Feb 16, 2015

I question the dedication to this team and/or intelligence of anyone who would take Welker (even in his prime) over Edelman.

Only someone who would want to sabotage this team's chances at winning a championship would take a player who has come up short when it mattered on numerous occasions over someone who has proven that he can perform in clutch situations.

PATS16N0 · Feb 16, 2015

Welker's a turncoat choke artist Bronco.
Edelman is Brady's BFF and helped the Pats win #4. He's also better at football.

Seems pretty clear to me

LeoparCT · Feb 16, 2015

PATS16N0 said:
Welker's a turncoat choke artist Bronco.
Edelman is Brady's BFF and helped the Pats win #4. He's also better at football.

Seems pretty clear to me

Edelman is all heart. Just listening to the sound fx on the last drive you hear it. I always saw Welker as a tough player that like being a patriots but never loved it like Edelman does.

The Gr8est · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
Edelman is all heart. Just listening to the sound fx on the last drive you hear it. I always saw Welker as a tough player that like being a patriots but never loved it like Edelman does.

Didn't Edelman mention something recently about putting a lot of time in with the JUGS machine?

I ask because I remember a couple of years ago Edelman missed a TD pass because Brady threw him a fast ball that he couldn't handle.

I only remember one other Pats player who made himself have great hands by using the JUGS machine and it was another late pick, David Givens.

PatsWickedPissah · Feb 16, 2015

What? There's a machine with jugs!?! Where can I get one?

LeoparCT · Feb 16, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
What? There's a machine with jugs!?! Where can I get one?

Very curvy

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
Welker ultimately didn't have love for the system here if he did then he would've reacted like the Vrabels, Branch, McGinest, etc that were traded or left and always had respect for this coach and the system. Welker the second he left acted like he was a diva that the nasty old Belichick held back for years. The problem is welker has a personality as exciting as watching paint dry. If he shut his mouth and acting with more class I guarantee a lot of fans myself included would hold him in higher esteem even if he chose our rival.

Vrabel was the most outspoken player on the Patriots and Belichick traded him because he knew he would not take a dime less than he was owed and he had reached a point where he wasn't going to be good enough to earn it. Love Vrabel but he's a bad example.

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
This 1000%

Welker could catches a million balls but the only 1 that matters in his career is the 1 that hit him right on both hands and he dropped. Edelman could have a 50% catch rate and I'd still trust him more in the biggest moments.

Welker had his head taken off a few plays before that drop. He shouldn't even have been in the game.

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
Welker ultimately didn't have love for the system here if he did then he would've reacted like the Vrabels, Branch, McGinest, etc that were traded or left and always had respect for this coach and the system. Welker the second he left acted like he was a diva that the nasty old Belichick held back for years. The problem is welker has a personality as exciting as watching paint dry. If he shut his mouth and acting with more class I guarantee a lot of fans myself included would hold him in higher esteem even if he chose our rival.

That's as dumb a post as I have read here. Vrabel ripped the Kraft's and was seriously pissed Belichick traded him. Branch held out and forced a trade, and McGinest did the same as Welker and left for more money.
Get your facts straight.

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

I doubt Edelman will ever put up the numbers Welker did but IMO he is a better player now than Welker was at his best, and I am still a big Welker fan but Edelman is more explosive and gets the big first downs the way Weller did. Hopefully Patriot fans won't sh.t all over him if he leaves but I doubt it. Classless never changes.

LeoparCT · Feb 16, 2015

Who is this Ivana person and why does she think she can talk to me?

Quoting me twice from the exact same statement with different retorts each time. Ivana how many voices in your head? You know what don't answer because I don't want you talking to me.

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
Who is this Ivana person and why does she think she can talk to me?

Quoting me twice from the exact same statement with different retorts each time. Ivana how many voices in your head? You know what don't answer because I don't want you talking to me.

Ivana?

I'm not the one with the homoerotic photo of Gronkowski.

And it really isn't my fault that you don't know what you are taking about.

Ivan · Feb 16, 2015

LeoparCT said:
Who is this Ivana person and why does she think she can talk to me?

Quoting me twice from the exact same statement with different retorts each time. Ivana how many voices in your head? You know what don't answer because I don't want you talking to me.

Good. Put me on ignore.

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