Devin McCourty

He didn't make first or second team All-Pro this year. He wasn't one of four FS picked for the Pro Bowl. If the franchise tag is based on the average of the five highest-paid players at the position, then he's probably not worth it. As far as leadership and respect of his teammates, remember that he wasn't elected captain in 2013, which I always wondered about.

If BB thinks that Duron Harmon can be 80% of the player at 10% of the salary, I don't think McCourty will be back.

Oswlek said:

Devin is without a doubt one of the best FSs in the league and deserves to be paid as such.

I agree that Mayo was overpaid and that he'd probably need to restructure heading into this year, but none of that has any relevance to McCourty's situation. If you are going to go that route, then the logical argument is that NE should never pay anyone a top contract.

Since I doubt that is what your point really is, the discrepancy lies in your assessment of McCourty as a player. I, for one, vehemently disagree with your "solid" assessment of Devin, "outstanding", "elite" or "fantastic" are far more applicable terms.

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Here is the thing, when you make an objective assesment of the Patriots defense, while it played the best it has in a long time and was pretty good this season, it never really was quite the sum of what its percevied parts were.

I mean think about how some of the players are described as:

Revis: Top 2 CB in the League
McCourty: Outstanding, Elite Safety
Browner: Strong Boundary Corner
Wilfork: Psuedo Elite Run Stuffer
Hightower & Collins: 2 of the best and most dynamic LBers in the league
Ninkovich: Clutch well rounded veteran
Jones: Above average pass rusher
Siliga, Chung, Arrington, Ayers, and Branch all useful rotational pieces.

With all of these things you'd expect us to be more like Seattle, but we were 12th in Defensive DVOA. We were questionable against the long ball this year. I think we have some elite talent to build on, but lets not overrate every single player.

I was once like you. After the 2012 season I called McCourty an elite safety and had ET and him 1 and 1a in my eye. In 2013 when he wasn't making the splash plays he did in year 1 at safety I assumed that he was making underappreciated plays that we don't really see, so I went to the coaches tape to find some examples. To be honest after watching enough of it, I was pretty underwhelmed with the actual impact McCourty had on the game. He played solid consistent football, tackled well, and looked more dynamic when walked down in coverage, but as a single high (where he plays most of the time), he's virtually indistinguishable from Harmon.

So now as I look at the young talent the Pats have relative to their cap flexibilty, I realize that the Pats don't have the room to pay multiple guys like elite players on that side of the ball. Which is why for me, I want to make sure the guys who are really adding a tangible amount of WAR like Revis, Hightower, and Collins are the ones who get paid. If McCourty is ok being paid like an above average starter by all means lets do it, but he's not an elite player.

I'm not against paying our guys, but I think we need to be careful. That Mayo contract to me is a good example of who not to overpay. Heady and consistent guys are great, but they can never substitute for true playmakers.

JMC00 said:

Cap hits of
$7.7m
$8.2m
$8m

Over the next 3 years.

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He had <$3 million cap hit in year 1. I was talking more in total $ than any individual year.

Spiral said:

He wasn't one of four FS picked for the Pro Bowl.

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Which should surprise nobody given that he wasn't even on the ballot at FS.

Spiral said:

He didn't make first or second team All-Pro this year. He wasn't one of four FS picked for the Pro Bowl. If the franchise tag is based on the average of the five highest-paid players at the position, then he's probably not worth it. As far as leadership and respect of his teammates, remember that he wasn't elected captain in 2013, which I always wondered about.

If BB thinks that Duron Harmon can be 80% of the player at 10% of the salary, I don't think McCourty will be back.

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Meriweather was voted to 2 Pro Bowls to Dmac's zero at safety. Should bring him back obviously.

McClusky said:

but we were 12th in Defensive DVOA.

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Prior to the Jet game, FO posted the DVOA in the second half of the season and NE was #2 in the league, just a hair behind #1 and substantially ahead of #10. Considering that Collins took time to develop this year, Browner missed the first four weeks, the coaches took time drilling down on what worked, Mayo and Jones missed much of the year and Branch/Siliga were late season additions, NE's defensive DVOA was actually solid this year.

And that doesn't even count the fact that DVOA has always had a difficult time dealing with the NE defense. For instance, IIRC, NE actually had a middling defensive DVOA against Chicago due to all the garbage time yards and the fact that most of their bad drives ended quickly. So you end up accumulating a disproportionate number of good plays compared to the amount of points scored.

McClusky said:

If McCourty is ok being paid like an above average starter by all means lets do it, but he's not an elite player.

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Fair enough. I disagree with your assessment, but at least we've gotten down to the heart of the matter.

Even if I conceded that Harmon is a reasonable approximation for Devin's single high skills, McCourty's CB skills can't be overlooked. It allows NE to use him in a multitude of ways providing for greater malleability and disguise.

patchick said:

When was the last time a top-level starter coming off a rookie contract didn't get a second contract from the Patriots? It would shock me. McCourty is absolutely perfect for this defense -- with Revis as much as without.

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The NE pass D is not Super Bowl caliber without Revis.

Sciz said:

Which should surprise nobody given that he wasn't even on the ballot at FS.

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Exactly.

patchick said:

When was the last time a top-level starter coming off a rookie contract didn't get a second contract from the Patriots? It would shock me. McCourty is absolutely perfect for this defense -- with Revis as much as without.

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Are you including playing under the franchise tag number as the second contract?

I think your job gets easier when u have corners that can cover. I like mccourty but not at 9 million.

nabwong said:

I think Dmac is worth the investment.

1. He is a first class person. Not footballer, PERSON.
2. He knows everyone's job.
3. He can play every down.
4. He's not likely to give less effort after a payday.
5. We will not be able to replace him with someone just as capable for the price.
6. Revis likes him.
7. BB likes him.
8. He has never complained once.
9. He's willing to do anything to help the team, eg moving from cb to fs. i.e. No ego
10. He is durable.

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But other than all that, what value does he really provide to the Pats?

Patriots1364life said:

I think your job gets easier when u have corners that can cover. I like mccourty but not at 9 million.

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And a corner's job gets easier when he knows help is there if he gets beat. It is no coincidence that every championship NE defense got stellar play from the safety position.

Miguel said:

Are you including playing under the franchise tag number as the second contract?

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If it counts the tag, "Get Paid" would certainly be in that group. Of course, his name is pretty much a curse word in the halls of Gillette.

McClusky said:

I was once like you. After the 2012 season I called McCourty an elite safety and had ET and him 1 and 1a in my eye. In 2013 when he wasn't making the splash plays he did in year 1 at safety I assumed that he was making underappreciated plays that we don't really see, so I went to the coaches tape to find some examples. To be honest after watching enough of it, I was pretty underwhelmed with the actual impact McCourty had on the game. He played solid consistent football, tackled well, and looked more dynamic when walked down in coverage, but as a single high (where he plays most of the time), he's virtually indistinguishable from Harmon.

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Mcourty is invisible more often that not. I mean, he is serviceable and does his job, but is just not a difference maker like Revis. If Revis leaves, there will be huge difference in the NE pass defense and I don't believe Mcourty can make up for the difference.

I hope the Pats don't overpay just because Mcourty is a good teammate and wants to stay in NE.

Sciz said:

Which should surprise nobody given that he wasn't even on the ballot at FS.

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There were four FS and two SS named to the 2014 Pro Bowl. McCourty wasn't among them.

PFF named 2 first-team APs, 2 second-team APs, and four honorable mention at safety. McCourty wasn't listed among those eight players.

Oswlek said:

And a corner's job gets easier when he knows help is there if he gets beat. It is no coincidence that every championship NE defense got stellar play from the safety position.

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I believe Matt Stevens played at safety in the 2001 SB. He was left unprotected in the expansion draft a couple of weeks later.

Spiral said:

There were four FS and two SS named to the 2014 Pro Bowl. McCourty wasn't among them.

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Because he was on the ballot as a strong safety and he lacks the things the average voter looks for in a strong safety, namely a lot of tackles and a reputation as a hard hitter.

Triumph said:

Mcourty is invisible more often that not. I mean, he is serviceable and does his job, but is just not a difference maker like Revis. If Revis leaves, there will be huge difference in the NE pass defense and I don't believe Mcourty can make up for the difference.

I hope the Pats don't overpay just because Mcourty is a good teammate and wants to stay in NE.

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Revis was pretty much invisible in the Superbowl too.

On the other hand, Kyle Arrington was very visible.

Sometimes, just like with the OL, that is exactly what you want.

His brother Jason said he'd love to have him on the Titans but he also said that he's almost 100% certain he will be a Patriot next year. From everything I've seen of McCourty, he loves it in NE and definitely wants to be back. I don't see him going anywhere.

Spiral said:

I believe Matt Stevens played at safety in the 2001 SB. He was left unprotected in the expansion draft a couple of weeks later.

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You believe wrong. It was T-buck and Milloy.

Edit: Stevens came on at times, as did Antwann Harris, but that's because the team played with 7-8 DBs at times. When you do that, you're always going to put players on the field that aren't high priorities for the following off season.