Vereen - stay or go?

Bourne Again Christian · Feb 15, 2015

White based on his game film appears to be better with the ball in his hands finding gaps making people miss.
His speed appears to be superior as well.
That being said there is no way he is a more talented pass catcher could he develop sure.
Would I pay Shane Vareen more than 3 million a season no way.

PatsFanSince74 · Feb 15, 2015

Ivan said:
Vereen is a much bigger priority than Connolly IMO.

In BB I trust on that one, but protecting TB will be at the top of his list.
Please, don't get me wrong, I really hope they keep Vereen. I just don't know who's gonna be sitting and who's gonna be left standing when the music stops.

Armchair Quarterback · Feb 15, 2015

I'm not sure Vereen would get $3-3.5 million, however if Reiss is correct that the price for Vereen starts at $3 million/year than the Pats should consider using that money towards signing DeMarco Murray. Murray signing would help to avoid the need to pay a 3rd down back considerable money while solidifying the starting RB position with the potential loss of Ridley. Kills two birds with one stone. No need to significantly invest in a 3rd down back if the primary back can handle the duties. If the market limits Murray to somewhere around $6 million a year I would much rather use that money to pay him rather than $3 Million to a third down back.

Other FA options in Vereen's price range might include CJ Spiller and Justin Forsett who are both more accomplished and more proven 3 down backs. Roy Helu and Antone Smith should be cheaper than Vereen, with Helu offering a similar skill set and Smith offering more explosiveness. Ahmad Bradshaw and Knowshon Moreno should also come cheaper with both coming off injuries.

Mankok · Feb 15, 2015

There is no way White fulfills Vereen's role. Can't even see him making the roster again. The perfect cheap replacement would be Duke Johnson from UMiami. He is a top notch receiver and a much better runner than Vereen. Can run inside with power or outside with speed. He would be a bargain if there at the end of round three. And most importantly he can pick up the blitz.

PatsFanSince74 · Feb 15, 2015

mgteich said:
If Woodhead is the right analogy, then you think that White is good enough to replace Vereen; all he needs is an opportunity. I think that Vereen had shown more than White in their rookie years.

I'm not trying to choose between White and Vereen. And, clearly, Vereen has earned his place not only on this team but as an important weapon for any team.

I want Vereen to be with the Pats next year, believe me, I really do, but I'm just saying that something's going to have to give at some point. I'm glad I don't have to make the final decision as to whether he can be and I'm also glad that someone as smart as BB will, ultimately, be the one to make it.

mosey threetupu · Feb 15, 2015

Armchair Quarterback said:
I'm not sure Vereen would get $3-3.5 million, however if Reiss is correct that the price for Vereen starts at $3 million/year than the Pats should consider using that money towards signing DeMarco Murray. Murray signing would help to avoid the need to pay a 3rd down back considerable money while solidifying the starting RB position with the potential loss of Ridley. Kills two birds with one stone. No need to significantly invest in a 3rd down back if the primary back can handle the duties. If the market limits Murray to somewhere around $6 million a year I would much rather use that money to pay him rather than $3 Million to a third down back.

Other FA options in Vereen's price range might include CJ Spiller and Justin Forsett who are both more accomplished and more proven 3 down backs. Roy Helu and Antone Smith should be cheaper than Vereen, with Helu offering a similar skill set and Smith offering more explosiveness. Ahmad Bradshaw and Knowshon Moreno should also come cheaper with both coming off injuries.

What about Murray's ball security? Worth $6 mil considering BB's stress on this issue? I admit not seeing too much of him but doesn't he carry the ball away from his body consistently?

Nunchucks · Feb 15, 2015

mgteich said:
This is Vereen's first non-rookie contract. He will try to make some money. Is 3/$10 a lot money? I don't see Vereen signing for less before becoming a free agent. Perhaps, Vereen would benefit from contract by teams in the last three days of the season.

I want to keep Vereen. I just don't think that we are willing to pay.

Most times he touched the ball and in preseason.

meatface said:
when did he flash skill in his rookie season? he never caught a pass and I remember people doubting if they should have let Woodhead go. Give White a chance

Edit: Woodhead left after the 2012 season but its the same issue as vereen didnt do much his second year either

Ivan · Feb 15, 2015

Murray is going to be the highest paid RB in free agency, I would put the odds of the Patriots signing him as close to zero as it gets. O think it's far more likely they re-sign Vereen to a 3-4 year deal and Ridley to a one year deal.

Armchair Quarterback · Feb 15, 2015

mosey threetupu said:
What about Murray's ball security? Worth $6 mil considering BB's stress on this issue? I admit not seeing too much of him but doesn't he carry the ball away from his body consistently?

Good point, I honestly didn't really consider that aspect. In Murray's defense, he had an insane 450 touches last year.

I still wouldn't pay a 3rd down back $3 million plus, especially in the current market. Everyone thinks along the line of having to have a separate 1st, 2nd down back and then another 3rd down back. The right player could potentially play all three.

IcyPatriot · Feb 15, 2015

Vareen was more valuable when we were having WR issues ...
Love Vareen but cap management is more important ...
If he goes elsewhere for good money then good for him ... he deserves it and we'll be fine.

Joker · Feb 15, 2015

ChrisR2223 said:
White based on his game film appears to be better with the ball in his hands finding gaps making people miss.
His speed appears to be superior as well.
That being said there is no way he is a more talented pass catcher could he develop sure.
Would I pay Shane Vareen more than 3 million a season no way.

Please stop...White measured 4.52/4.53 in the 40 at the combine, Vereen was 4.5 flat at the combine and a previous workout number of 4.42.

White does NOT do the things Vereen does. White looked so much better with the ball in his hands than Vereen that BB decided to play Jonas Gray at RB instead of White. Jeezus man, c'mon with this binky BS.White was active for only THREE GAMES!

Armchair Quarterback · Feb 15, 2015

Ivan said:
Murray is going to be the highest paid RB in free agency, I would put the odds of the Patriots signing him as close to zero as it gets. O think it's far more likely they re-sign Vereen to a 3-4 year deal and Ridley to a one year deal.

Not at $3-3.5 Million year.

mosey threetupu · Feb 15, 2015

Armchair Quarterback said:
Good point, I honestly didn't really consider that aspect. In Murray's defense, he had an insane 450 touches last year.

I still wouldn't pay a 3rd down back $3 million plus, especially in the current market. Everyone thinks along the line of having to have a separate 1st, 2nd down back and then another 3rd down back. The right player could potentially play all three.

I think he had this rep going into the season. I admittedly don't see many Cowboys games but I did see him fumble several times and they looked more like careless carrying a loaf of bread type fumbles than the Ridley getting knocked out and dropping it type from that Ravens PO game.

Ivan · Feb 15, 2015

Armchair Quarterback said:
Not at $3-3.5 Million year.

He will be looking for 8-9 a season imo.

kennyb · Feb 15, 2015

Supposedly the pats staff was very high on white. Time to give him a chance and save the money.

mgteich · Feb 15, 2015

upstater1 said:
Definitely keep Vereen. $3.5m is nothing nowaways. I see his production growing in the coming years.

????

There are only 15 NFL running backs making this nothing amount of $3.5M. Belichick will pay his 1st down RB no more than $1.5M (Blount, Ridley or Gray). We are a passing team. Belichick has chosen not to use a lot of cap money for running backs, choosing to use the money elsewhere.

I just don't see Belichick paying $3.5M for a 3rd down running back. Personally, I think that it would be a good idea, just as I did when we didn't re-sign Woodhead. I suspect that Belichick might even bring in a couple of low-priced free agents if Vereen isn't re-signed, perhaps Ridley and another (Ridley in any case if he wants to sign).

mgteich · Feb 15, 2015

kennyb said:
Supposedly the pats staff was very high on white. Time to give him a chance and save the money.

Yes, the patriots were high on White when they drafted him so highly. I don't think that it is reasonable to make believe that we are evaluating White as of February of 2014. There have been many opportunities for White to show that he is worth something and is the replacement for Vereen. Unless he has been a practice star who just isn't quite ready, it would be major step for White to take.

PatsWickedPissah · Feb 15, 2015

Mark Morse said:
I don't see any scenario where Belichick pays $3M a year for a receiving RB. He had a great one in Woodhead (avg 4.7 YPC and 10.6 YPR - better than Hernandez) and he let him go for short money. Did any RB on the Patriots have more than 100 carries? Would love to have Vereeen back, but I just don't see it happening.

Vereen is worth the $3.5 M per year, but not to the cap strapped Patriots. I like everything about the guy and like with Danny Woodpecker, I'll miss him but the Patriots have some serious financial decisions to make. They must if at all possible re-sign Revis and then McCourty. Then there's the Mayo & Wilfork conundrum. I think Mayo re-structures or is gone. EDIT Mayo restructures

Thank you for your service Vereen. Take the big bucks you'll get elsewhere.

mgteich · Feb 15, 2015

PatsWickedPissah said:
Vereen is worth the $3.5 M per year, but not to the cap strapped Patriots. I like everything about the guy and like with Danny Woodpecker, I'll miss him but the Patriots have some serious financial decisions to make. They must if at all possible re-sign Revis and then McCourty. Then there's the Mayo & Wilfork conundrum. I think Mayo re-structures or is gone.

Thank you for your service Vereen. Take the big bucks you'll get elsewhere.

The caps are not cap strapped. We wouldn't be saying that if the $20M for Revis were excluded.

RayClay · Feb 15, 2015

mgteich said:
I suspect that Belichick might even bring in a couple of low-priced free agents if Vereen isn't re-signed, perhaps Ridley and another (Ridley in any case if he wants to sign).

Of course he will. there are a ton of rbs/wrs every year who are "too small" for the NFL. In a limited low paying role, some could flash like the did in college. Carch a few passes, run a few draws. It's a talent rich position.

Just like when people were panicking that we'd never find anyone to replace welker. Amendola might have almost, had he stayed healthy, but our punt returner stepped in and might be better.

When you have limited funds, you need to remember the law of scasrcity. 325 pound guys with athletic ability = rare. 5'10" guys who can run and catch a football, not so much.

Vereen - stay or go?

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