Patriots need to keep Revis, even if it means picking up year 2

I am just surprise that the donkeys have more cap space then this team. Also teams like the bills. This team hardly spends big bucks in free agency. I dont see a guy on our defense besides revis who should be making big money.

Deus Irae said:

Questions arise in my head, regarding the low end players:

Do you really pay more than, say, $1.5m for Ayers?
Are you giving Ridley anything more than that same $1m-$1.5m?
If you're bringing back White, aren't you doing it only for the minimum?
Can you get Connolly with, say, $2m plus incentives?
Are you going to offer Branch much more than the minimum?

I don't see any of those players as "must have", with the exception of Connolly. To me, if they want the money, they should be told to go elsewhere to get it. There's nothing wrong with that, on the part of either side.

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I thought a bit more about the low-end players. I suspect that we could add all these for a net of $6M, recognizing that the five replace players costing $500K each on the roster. The five ERFA's will be added; they cost nothing. I don't include Ayers or Vereen. They will likely sign elsewhere.

I like the idea of focusing more on the high cost decisions.

SPENDING SIX MILLION
Connolly
Casillas
Ridley
Branch
White

Siliga
Develin
Tyms
Orton
Morris
=========================
That would leave us $26M UNDER with the following unsigned
Revis
Wilfork
Solder
McCourty
Gostkowski
Vereen
Ayers

With $26M, we could sign all five of the key unsigned
Revis - $8M (on new contract) or sign another top corner
Wilfork - $5M (this could even be done with no reduction in pay)
McCourty - $5M
Solder - $5M
Gostkowski - $3M

mgteich said:

I thought a bit more about the low-end players. I suspect that we could add all these for a net of $6M, recognizing that the five replace players costing $500K each on the roster. The five ERFA's will be added; they cost nothing. I don't include Ayers or Vereen. They will likely sign elsewhere.

I like the idea of focusing more on the high cost decisions.

SPENDING SIX MILLION
Connolly
Casillas
Ridley
Branch
White

Siliga
Develin
Tyms
Orton
Morris
=========================
That would leave us $26M UNDER with the following unsigned
Revis
Wilfork
Solder
McCourty
Gostkowski
Vereen
Ayers

With $26M, we could sign all five of the key unsigned
Revis - $8M (on new contract) or sign another top corner
Wilfork - $5M (this could even be done with no reduction in pay)
McCourty - $5M
Solder - $5M
Gostkowski - $3M

Click to expand...

Yeah, it's definitely workable for the Patriots to keep most of their players, as long as they get a Revis deal in place. If they don't, tough decisions will need to be made.

Deus Irae said:

Yeah, it's definitely workable for the Patriots to keep most of their players, as long as they get a Revis deal in place. If they don't, tough decisions will need to be made.

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Indeed. If the team wants to pay Revis $20M, then $12M would need to be found. I just don't think that Belichick has any intention of paying Revis $20M.

FWIW, if they want to pay Revis $20M, I think that both Solder and Wilfork would be cut.

Revis is in the driving seat.
If Revis & agent really wants to play games and use Jets/Bills/other-teams as a way to force the Patriots to pay top $$, they are in for a surprise.

BillB will not break the bank for any one player. period.

am I the only one who is baffled that one of the arguments here of not paying revis is "how are we goig to keep guys like ayers, branch, siliga, connoly!"

i'm sorry, but those guys are role players....while solid role players for us, they should not be in the way of us signing a STAR player. they can be replaced and replacements coached up.

our priorities this offseason should be as follows
Revis
Mccourty
Gostowki

everyone else should be secondary. and you certainly dont let a HOF #1 shut down CB go because you are worried about signing depth guys

One argument I have seen in this thread is that the Pats do not push cap space into the future. Is not Revis' deal an example of just that? Wilfork's extension another?

Miguel said:

One argument I have seen in this thread is that the Pats do not push cap space into the future. Is not Revis' deal an example of just that? Wilfork's extension another?

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If I understand correctly, the patriots have pushed about $37M into 2015. That's the total of the deferred bonuses less current new bonuses plus the dead money.

$25.8M of bonus money has already been pushed into 2016, and $16.7M into later years. So, the patriots have pushed a total of about $80M into the future.

Miguel said:

One argument I have seen in this thread is that the Pats do not push cap space into the future. Is not Revis' deal an example of just that? Wilfork's extension another?

Click to expand...

It's the offseason. It's just going to keep getting worse.

mgteich said:

Indeed. If the team wants to pay Revis $20M, then $12M would need to be found. I just don't think that Belichick has any intention of paying Revis $20M.

FWIW, if they want to pay Revis $20M, I think that both Solder and Wilfork would be cut.

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Solder could be traded rather than cut. The Pats would just have to get under the cap for the start of the league year and then deal him once it begins. You would have to believe that a quality LT would have considerable trade value.

Kenneth Sims said:

Solder could be traded rather than cut. The Pats would just have to get under the cap for the start of the league year and then deal him once it begins. You would have to believe that a quality LT would have considerable trade value.

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Yes, you are correct. I'm not sure how much we might get for a one-year rental, but someone would give something.

Deus Irae said:

Yeah, it's definitely workable for the Patriots to keep most of their players, as long as they get a Revis deal in place. If they don't, tough decisions will need to be made.

Click to expand...

Pretty much sums it up. I think Revis opens up everything else for BB, and I also think that BB thinks that. But I am fully prepared to explain away everything as the "Post Revis ergo propter Revis fallacy" if this turns out not to be the Pats' thinking. Hell I might even go there even if the Pats think they do need him but can't afford him. We know he brought something... it's just a matter of how much he brings, what we think he's likely to bring in the future, and what he/his agent believe we should be paying.

zipster9 said:

Revis is in the driving seat.
If Revis & agent really wants to play games and use Jets/Bills/other-teams as a way to force the Patriots to pay top $$, they are in for a surprise.

BillB will not break the bank for any one player. period.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure all sides are aware that there are 31 other teams out there. Do you have a specific public statement by Revis or his agent in mind, or do you mean "If they insist on pointing out that his value could be set by the market rather than arrived at in a vacuum to the benefit of the Pats"?

PatsFanInVa said:

Pretty much sums it up. I think Revis opens up everything else for BB, and I also think that BB thinks that. But I am fully prepared to explain away everything as the "Post Revis ergo propter Revis fallacy" if this turns out not to be the Pats' thinking. Hell I might even go there even if the Pats think they do need him but can't afford him. We know he brought something... it's just a matter of how much he brings, what we think he's likely to bring in the future, and what he/his agent believe we should be paying.

Click to expand...

I think that we make the Revis situation more complicated than it is. Revis and the team will reach a deal or he'll be a free agent and Belichick is likely to sign a top free agent corner. In either case, the 2015 cap hit for our top corner will be about $6M-$10M. I've used a placeholder of $8M in most of my posts.

So, how are our other decisions significantly affected? IMHO, Belichick either extends Revis for an $8M 2015 hit on his new contract or cuts Revis and signs someone else at $8M.

I'm not sure that what happens in the Revis decision greatly affects other decisions. I understand that there could be timing differences, delaying some decisions by a few days, but I don't see anything significant.

Trade /Cut Solder?

it's official...the Super Bowl win afterglow has gone out. It's officially off season "Fanoony!" time...

I believe Bill's opinion of Solder as a player is in stark contrast to a number of people on this board....but by all means, give it the Fanoonity Fantasy workup. Hey, maybe they'll bring Fanene BACK to play left tackle!~

James White will make Vereen expendable?...is there some kind of easy way to transport oneself to THIS alternate universe?

Tom Brady is turning 38 so let's draft a left tackle and let a rookie protect his blind side...at 38 years old....instead of the young left tackle veteran that just performed well enough to be part of a 4 TD passing explosion against the best defense in the NFL. Right....that sure makes cents....

mgteich said:

I think that we make the Revis situation more complicated than it is. Revis and the team will reach a deal or he'll be a free agent and Belichick is likely to sign a top free agent corner. In either case, the 2015 cap hit for our top corner will be about $6M-$10M. I've used a placeholder of $8M in most of my posts.

So, how are our other decisions significantly affected? IMHO, Belichick either extends Revis for an $8M 2015 hit on his new contract or cuts Revis and signs someone else at $8M.

I'm not sure that what happens in the Revis decision greatly affects other decisions. I understand that there could be timing differences, delaying some decisions by a few days, but I don't see anything significant.

Click to expand...

There are no real "top" free agent corners, which is the problem. The best of what's out there:

Brandon Flowers
Antonio Cromartie


Also, if Revis goes, Browner becomes a liability rather than a strength.

Cromartie has repeatedly expressed his desire to return to the NY area. He played for the new Jets coach this past season. If I had to wager I'd take the Jets as a lock.

I posted this earlier. I've added prices for Vereen and Ayers, to be better focus the analysis,
As you might recall, I suggested that we consider Revis, Wilfork and Solder to be unsigned (total $36M).
I "spent" $4M on the current overage, and $6M on low-level free agents leaving us $26M before making major decisions.
=====================================
Having signed the minor free agents and ERFA's, we have A BUDGET OF $26M
=====================================
SOME SUGGESTED FIRST YEAR CAP NUMBERS
Revis - $8M (on new contract or sign another top corner)
Wilfork - $5M (this could even be done with or without a reduction in pay)
McCourty - $6M
Solder - $6M
Vereen - $4M
Gostkowski - $3M
Ayers - $3M
------
total $35M, a shortfall of only $9M.

BRIDGING THE GAP - LOW HANGING FRUIT
Don't sign Ayers $3M
Restructure Amendola $2M
Restructure Mayo $4M (this could be done with our without a reduction in pay)
-------
total $9M

This "plan" keeps everyone but Amendola and Ayers. It does not make any decisions with regard to Wilfork or Mayo, other than that their cap will be lower.
==========================================
There are many other restructures that could be made. Some players could be cut. So, there are more sources of funds for decisions and costs after March 10th.
===============
REPEATED FOR EMPHASIS
We are NOT in terrible cap shape. We can sign all of our free agents if Belichick so chooses. Obviously, he can choose to part company with players. There are many options. For any free agent not re-signed (beyond Ayers), there is money available for a free agent replacement.

Deus Irae said:

There are no real "top" free agent corners, which is the problem. The best of what's out there:

Brandon Flowers
Antonio Cromartie


Also, if Revis goes, Browner becomes a liability rather than a strength.

Click to expand...

Agreed. However, I do think that we will add one if Revis isn't extended. Maxwell might work.
So, yes, perhaps I should not have said "top". Perhaps we would end up signing a corner plus someone else.

PatsFanInVa said:

I'm pretty sure all sides are aware that there are 31 other teams out there. Do you have a specific public statement by Revis or his agent in mind, or do you mean "If they insist on pointing out that his value could be set by the market rather than arrived at in a vacuum to the benefit of the Pats"?

Click to expand...

The latter statement. Revis will not give Patriots a "hometome discount", and he has the most leverage.
Past Revis negotiations when he was a Jet should not be dismissed, in terms of his mind-set.

March 10th is around the corner (2-1/2wks), and not much time to negotiate with Revis AND other important player decisions that the Patriots have to make.

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst....