Patriots need to keep Revis, even if it means picking up year 2

Brunitus said:

April 1st is the day he gets his huge bonus, I think and im not sure, but after march 10th is the date if we don't cut revis, we have $5 million in dead money

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I thought everything was pretty much due on March 10th (first day of league year), at least "everything" in terms the team needing to make a decision by then.

It would have been crazy stupid for Revis and his team to negotiate a deal last year that would have him miss free agency by allowing the Pats to sit on his rights until 4/1, as you say.

EDIT: I see someone else has addressed this, so forgive my repeat type of comment.

Kenneth Sims said:

Just because the Pats pick up the option on Revis' deal does not mean those are the terms he will be paying under in 2015. To me, the important thing is to keep him from free agency. The best chance to extend him will come after the option is picked up and Revis realizes he's not getting a big payday from another team and is another year away from free agency.

If he hits free agency, he's gone. Too many teams with too much cap room for someone not to make him an unmatchable offer and one you would not want to match if you could.

Picking up the option will force tough decisions, but it can be done. Revis is a difference maker. You keep him and figure the rest out as you go.

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Picking up the option year would mean one of the 2

- pats would change their bussiness model, go for another Super bowl run and blow up the team within 3 years (because of cap hell from all the crazy backload contracts they will need to offer)
- we would definitety loose some more players this year and

Don't forget we got Hightower and chandler to deal with it next year

wolverinejoe80 said:

i wish him well if he leaves us. we can't afford to spend too much money on 1 player. 15 mil per year is the maximum we should spend on revis.

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That would be a 20 percent increase from what he received last year when he was the highest priced CB AAV prior to the new deals being signed by Peterson, Haden, and Sherman.

It wouldn't be about 15 million dollars AAV as much as it will be how the pact is structured, as well as the biggest factor--guaranteed money.

In my opinion, Revis would likely stay for something in the 13-14 range, as long as the other aspects are in his favor.

Whats the problem with the guarantee money? This guy for the most part of his career has been durable with the exception of the year he got hurt. I feel he has alot of great football left.

Ice_Ice_Brady said:

I doubt we could get Revis in the $13-14M range on the open market

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I'm not sure what you mean by "open market," but if it's allowing Revis to hit free agency, then I'd agree with you that the odds probably wouldn't be in our favor. However, if we offer Revis a pact that satisfies the amount of guaranteed money that he's looking for, as well as how the pact is structured, then I'd see 13-14 AAV as being quite reasonable.

The top of the market was set last year by Sherman and Peterson (Haden as well, but not as much in my opinion). They are 2 very good CBs who are much younger--in their mid 20's. I couldn't imagine why Revis wouldn't accept something in that price range if the other variables were in his favor such as the way the pact was structured, and guaranteed money.

JR4 said:

See this just the type of CAP debt I mentioned. This year OK 13M Cap hit. Next year 17M and if
PATS let him go next year it would still be what 13M+ dead money! This is crazy. Plus you still need
to pick up more CAP space this year. Still need another 10 M from some where. By the time the
dust settles you got several players whose CAP hit was partially pushed into the future and that future
won't be too CAP friendly for the PATS. If you are of a mind set of this is the only year that matters then
this may be the way to go. PATS haven't acted that way for the last 14 years.

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You may think that the patriots don't believe in signing bonuses or deferring money. As of now, there is $37M deferred into 2015, including $4M of dead money. Every time the team signs a contract with a signing bonus, money is deferred into the future.

So, you may believe that the patriots don't defer money, but they really do. All the jumping up and down won't change that.
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Personally, I think that you should man up and make your REAL argument more clearly. You think that it is a mistake to pay a corner $12M-$15M a year. It is just too high a proportion of the cap. Perhaps, we might look to recent history to see how Belichick feels about the value of a cornerback. Well, last year, Belichick signed Revis to $12M contract with $20M option, deferring 5 of the 12 million into this year. Was Belichick so wrong to play out $12M for a corner?

Patriots1364life said:

Whats the problem with the guarantee money? This guy for the most part of his career has been durable with the exception of the year he got hurt. I feel he has alot of great football left.

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Possibly the bigger obstacle would be the fact that Revis will want stability in his later years, and may want a longer multi year deal than the Pats are willing to take a chance on.

The team may feel fine giving him a nice payday through the next 3 years, whereas Revis may want something in the 5 year range--taking him to the age of 35. Hopefully, they are able to meet in the middle.

supafly said:

Possibly the bigger obstacle would be the fact that Revis will want stability in his later years, and may want a longer multi year deal than the Pats are willing to take a chance on.

The team may feel fine giving him a nice payday through the next 3 years, whereas Revis may want something in the 5 year range--taking him to the age of 35. Hopefully, they are able to meet in the middle.

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In essence, we are talking about adding one to two years to say a 3/$42M contract. If there are to another year or two, then there would be some guarantees associated with those years.

mgteich said:

In essence, we are talking about adding one to two years to say a 3/$42M contract. If there are to another year or two, then there would be some guarantees associated with those years.

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Sure, I suppose one could argue that the way those guarantees would be structured may be important though. It depends on different factors between the team/Revis' camp.

I still think they get something done myself. We'll have to see.

supafly said:

Sure, I suppose one could argue that the way those guarantees would be structured may be important though. It depends on different factors between the team/Revis' camp.

I still think they get something done myself. We'll have to see.

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I also think that they will get something done. If not we'll still have a team heavily favored to play in the AFCE championship game.

mgteich said:

You may think that the patriots don't believe in signing bonuses or deferring money. As of now, there is $37M deferred into 2015, including $4M of dead money. Every time the team signs a contract with a signing bonus, money is deferred into the future.

So, you may believe that the patriots don't defer money, but they really do. All the jumping up and down won't change that.
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Personally, I think that you should man up and make your REAL argument more clearly. You think that it is a mistake to pay a corner $12M-$15M a year. It is just too high a proportion of the cap. Perhaps, we might look to recent history to see how Belichick feels about the value of a cornerback. Well, last year, Belichick signed Revis to $12M contract with $20M option, deferring 5 of the 12 million into this year. Was Belichick so wrong to play out $12M for a corner?

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When PATs have made a contract I think they have projected the implications of the contract long term.
They have NOT got themselves into CAP trouble like other teams because they stick to their these
principles even if they have to let players go. Redoing contracts to free up CAP space has been done but
still with an eye to the future. Have you ever seen them redo a lot of contracts pushing a lot of CAP to future year(s) for just one player one player? If they have to push 25M Cap to 2016 which may result in
them being over CAP by 20M or so next year to get Revis I do not think they would do it.

I really do not care if they pay Revis 20M a year. If they can pull if off I will be as happy as anyone to
have Revis on board. What I, as a Fan, would be upset about is if in future years this team has to lose
key players because they got themselves into CAP hell just so they could have one player.
I just think redoing a lot of contracts and also taking on 17M CAP hit for one player in 2016 as you
suggested is something to be considered very carefully or they might end up like the Saints.
As a fan I want this team to be as strong for years to come and not be handcuffed because of CAP issues.

As for paying 12M for Revis last year, they didn't get Talib and they had CAP space to
do it even though it probably meant they were going to be over CAP this year.
By the way, when is the last time their 51 top players were over CAP this time of the year?
PATS are one of the worst 3 teams in the league when considering CAP space right now.
The Seahawks have 23M to work with. PATS got (-4M). This is not a team that should be
considering taking on a huge CAP obligation unless they don't care about future years.
If they let Revis walk they'll be under CAP by 15M, where they have been often at this time of the year. They can then sign McCourty, Ghostkowsi and some of their other FAs but will still need to free up CAP
space for other needs. If they bite on a Revis deal like you suggested I'll be surprised.
Bottom line: Revis is a Luxury the CAP poor PATS can't afford.

I don't think the pats even view picking up the option as an option. But they probably want the revis camp to think it's an option

mgteich said:

Let's see. You want to pay Revis a $12M roster bonus, after which he is under contract to play 2015 for $8M ($7.5M plus playing time $.5M).

And you think that Revis will think that $20M isn't enough for 2015 and will sign an extension for more?
And you think that the team will pay Revis more than $20M for 2015. Make no mistake, once the bonus is due, it is part of the past. Revis would then be negotiating an extension for 2016 and beyond. I'm sure that he'd be interested. Why not, the team just paid him $20M as an indicator of how much they are willing to pay.

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The bonus is not paid until 4/1 or 3 weeks after free agency begins. During that time, the bonus could be altered to being part of a signing bonus connected to an extension.

Of course, Revis would be willing to do an extension with $20m already in his pocket because he could get another $20-25 million guaranteed in the process.

Oswlek said:

It really can't. I mean, it can, but it would be a horrible idea.

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I really don't get this: It's not smart to borrow say $10m from the 2016 and beyond caps by simple restructures basically to ensure that Revis plays here in 2015 and you have exclusive negotiating rights to extend him for another year when the Pats are $40 million or more under the likely 2016 cap.

This is a simple equation: Is Revis a $16m a year player? Based on his impact and the market, I say he is, and far more importantly, Revis knows he is. So, pay the man the 2nd year of his 2 year 32 million ($16m aav) and move numbers around to make it happen.

mgteich said:

If I understand correctly, these are the days that the checks are to be cut. The patriots will owe him the money if he is on the team on March 10th. Do I understand correctly?

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Yes.
If the Patriots pick up Revis' option, they will owe the $12m no matter when is paid out. If the Patriots pick up Revis' option and then pay him the first $3m installment on 3/31, they can not retroactively change the $12m roster bonus into a signing bonus.

kennyb said:

Lots of contracts have high later year salaries that "help no one".

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What makes you think that Revis will agree to such a deal after seeing Mankins get traded?

Brunitus said:

also another point I would like to add is that the longer it takes, the more it means Revis is leaning towards the money option.

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Deadlines spur action.
What will be lost by reaching a last-minute deal?

Kenneth Sims said:

I really don't get this: It's not smart to borrow say $10m from the 2016 and beyond caps by simple restructures basically to ensure that Revis plays here in 2015 and you have exclusive negotiating rights to extend him for another year when the Pats are $40 million or more under the likely 2016 cap.

This is a simple equation: Is Revis a $16m a year player? Based on his impact and the market, I say he is, and far more importantly, Revis knows he is. So, pay the man the 2nd year of his 2 year 32 million ($16m aav) and move numbers around to make it happen.

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Because the Patriots don't have the wiggle room to invest $25mm in cap space in Revis without collateral damage. Sometimes you can just "move numbers around" and sometimes it takes cutting Mayo, Wilfork and Solder. Picking up the option is the latter.

I agree that it is worth keeping Revis with the huge cap hit if that is what it takes....the older he gets the less his value, keep him here another year and he may become affordable.

Please note that the Patriots 2016 cap space number will decrease greatly as soon as the Patriots pick up the options on Chandler Jones and Hightower.

Josh Kline
James Develin
Tim Wright
Brian Tyms
Ryan Allen
Sealver Siliga
will all become RFAs in 2016.
Tender offers to them will also decrease the Patriots cap space in 2016