Bedard: league still thinks NE is guilty

hambone1818 said:

The one good thing to come of all this: a rift in the Kraft-Goodell relationship. I think he's seeing first hand how badly he mismanages these media-driven investigations. He gave him a pass as the new commissioner during camera-gate but now, with his team being dragged through the mud again, this time with absolutely no wrongdoing, Kraft won't stand for it. I think it's the first step toward Goodell losing his job, which is small consolation but it least it's something.

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I agree with you. Without Kraft's support, Goodell has less power. I doubt he actually loses his job. He's been as bad as a person could possibly be at any position thus far and still has the title. But I do think a rift with Kraft is a good thing.

BradyManny said:

I agree with you. Without Kraft's support, Goodell has less power. I doubt he actually loses his job. He's been as bad as a person could possibly be at any position thus far and still has the title. But I do think a rift with Kraft is a good thing.

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Keep in mind everyone was calling for his head after the Rice debacle. Kraft stood by him every step of the way.

Something else will come up--it always does. Multiple issues over time. Without Kraft in the background supporting Goodell, leading the charge as one of the three or four most influential owners in the sport, the owners as a whole could hang him out to dry.

I don't think the owners would actively try to remove Goodell, but with little support still in his corner (presumably, since we don't know what's going on behind the scenes) the owners could choose to let him fend for himself if he botches another investigation and the media will eat him alive, forcing a change. Maybe it takes a year, three years...whatever it is, I think this is the first big step in that direction.

As some media members have brought up, a guy like Tagliabue would never, ever have allowed his organization and the media to drag a marquee franchise through the mud over deflated footballs; even if it were shown to be 100% substantiated, it would have been handled behind the scenes, with stern warnings and tight lips around the league. Heads would have rolled if leaks were made, and he'd have cleaned up any mess as quickly as possible. Protect the shield, protect the 32 owners and their interests. Goodell, from cameragate to bountygate to Rice to Peterson to deflategate, has proven inept in protecting the leagues and the owners interests. I think Kraft finally realizes that.

smurfalarm said:

That's what I'm confused about. Allegedly, the Colts were first concerned about Patriots' balls being underinflated after a game played in Indy, where the Patriots would have no influence over the ball attendants. How would the Patriots have deflated balls in an away game? Does the NFL think they will find video of Tom Brady himself skulking around the officials' locker room sticking pins into game balls? The whole idea is nuts.

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That was reported at one point, but the very guy who was alleged to have noticed the balls being deflated came out and said that that wasn't true, and it's been clarified that the league had no suspicion of anything until the AFCCG. I think that whole story has been pretty much debunked.

Count me as those surprised by Bedard's opinion that the NFL still thinks that the league suspects us even after the more recent report that it was only friggin ball - which the Colts equipment guys handled - that had a 2 psi difference.

I think the NFL will file this away under the 'X Files' category. Unproven allegations - and so unpunishable - coupled with plausible theories on outside forces not visible to the naked eye that could have caused an inexplicable drop in the pressure. After all half of the scientists now say 2 psi is possible and other half say it is hot air (no pun).

So, how can the NFL do anything to us?

I do wish they go after the Colts and explore the Ravens connection.

And oh, wish the NFL and Bedard read Hurley's column (link below, but there are already a couple of threads on this):

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2015/02/...-time-for-irsay-pagano-to-be-banned-from-nfl/

I'm sad to write this, but i fear that unless the league comes out with a complete "Patriots team, staff, BB, TB and Kraft have done nothing wrong and are completely innocent" followed by the research and facts and findings...the Pats in the eyes of all others will be that we got away with it and label the team as repeat cheaters. There is a large collection of people that will refuse any explanation other than that the Pats did something wrong and the "cover up" stories will start flying. I'm now training myself to embrace the hate and being a good storm trooper for Darth Brady and Emperor Belichick.

Pats_AZ said:

I'm sad to write this, but i fear that unless the league comes out with a complete "Patriots team, staff, BB, TB and Kraft have done nothing wrong and are completely innocent" followed by the research and facts and findings...the Pats in the eyes of all others will be that we got away with it and label the team as repeat cheaters. There is a large collection of people that will refuse any explanation other than that the Pats did something wrong and the "cover up" stories will start flying. I'm now training myself to embrace the hate and being a good storm trooper for Darth Brady and Emperor Belichick.

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Honestly, even if they did come out with that, it wouldn't change people's mind. Hating the Patriots has become a religion to the rest of the football nation. The belief makes people feel better about themselves or other deeper-rooted beliefs. Therefore, it is costly to change those beliefs, and they will accept their beliefs even in the face of conflicted facts or evidence.

We were F'd the second Kravitz came out with his report. It caused the NFL to buckle down and treat this thing more seriously than it needed to, and to double down on their desire to F the Pats. I wonder if he hadn't released his report that night, and the NFL could've gotten ahead of this thing, if things would've gone any differently.

Pats_AZ said:

I'm now training myself to embrace the hate and being a good storm trooper for Darth Brady and Emperor Belichick.

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Now its Emperor Kraft. BB is Tarkin.

BradyManny said:

Honestly, even if they did come out with that, it wouldn't change people's mind. Hating the Patriots has become a religion to the rest of the football nation. The belief makes people feel better about themselves or other deeper-rooted beliefs. Therefore, it is costly to change those beliefs, and they will accept their beliefs even in the face of conflicted facts or evidence.

We were F'd the second Kravitz came out with his report. It caused the NFL to buckle down and treat this thing more seriously than it needed to, and to double down on their desire to F the Pats. I wonder if he hadn't released his report that night, and the NFL could've gotten ahead of this thing, if things would've gone any differently.

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Exactly...the only proof you need is the Rams walkthrough. Completely bogus 'scandal', Walsh admitted as much, Tomase and the Herald were forced to apologize, the league came out and said the Patriots did not tape the walkthrough...and yet whenever stuff comes up the first thing you hear (after spygate) is 'Patriots tape practices'.

The damage can't be undone, which is part of why this was so infuriating as it unfolded--and ESPECIALLY as more information is leaked out suggesting absolutely no wrongdoing.

I'm really just waiting for the Wells report to come up with a full viewpoint on this situation. Too many rumors to know what’s real or not. That said, I am not the least surprised that the NFL thinks BB is guilty - and they're doing anything possible to make it so, evidence be damned.

Belichick has shown that he is 100% committed to football, that he has a disdain towards authority (or more specifically, fools in position of authority), isn't above looking for loopholes and technicalities to serve his purpose (camera placement & review timing, his Hoodies). I think it’s likely he engages is mutually-acceptable minor gamesmanship - which is what the camera thing was. But we have no evidence of explicit cheating, and no evidence of him ever outright lying - in fact, many people (players included) think that's a great strength. Given all this, Belichick’s reaction (plus Brady’s reaction) tells me he is innocent here. But similar to what the former Jets’ sideline coach said – if Belichick had actually thought this would make a difference and knew it was “mutually acceptable gamesmanship”, I could see him attempting it – but if he was ever caught, he would have admitted it and threatened/blackmailed the league about it.

The league hates someone like that. They’re going to assume he’s guilty – Mr. Technicality trying to pull a fast one by them yet again. Thus, this witch-hunt.

For you NCIS fans – Bill Belichick is Leroy Jethro Gibbs. Strong, intelligent, fully committed to his work, doesn’t like the outside BS, gets things done his way, leads his way. Annoys his bosses because of the disdain and contempt he shows them and for not fully cooperating if he thinks they’re being fools. On the show, Gibbs always winds up winning in the end and everyone’s ok with it. This is because, first of all, it’s TV, and secondly, the authorities really have the same goal and are on the same side.

On the other hand, Belichick and the NFL do not have the same goal, and are not on the same side. Belichick is focused 100% on making a winning football team. The NFL is concerned about money, marketing, image, parity. In short, almost the exact opposite. Easy to see why the league office hates him, why they think he must be up to something, and why they’re sparing no time and expense to try to find just anything that can prove them right.

The fact that the NFL went into this investigation with a pretty clear assumption re: guilt kinda tells you everything you need to know. The fact that it still maintains such a belief in spite of its complete failure to uncover any kind of evidence is doubly telling.

A competent investigation begins with no assumptions, and lets the evidence tell the story. But again, when's the last time the league office under Goodell did anything competently?

BradyManny said:

Honestly, even if they did come out with that, it wouldn't change people's mind. Hating the Patriots has become a religion to the rest of the football nation. The belief makes people feel better about themselves or other deeper-rooted beliefs. Therefore, it is costly to change those beliefs, and they will accept their beliefs even in the face of conflicted facts or evidence.

We were F'd the second Kravitz came out with his report. It caused the NFL to buckle down and treat this thing more seriously than it needed to, and to double down on their desire to F the Pats. I wonder if he hadn't released his report that night, and the NFL could've gotten ahead of this thing, if things would've gone any differently.

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This is why "Then why did Goodell burn the tapes LOL!? (I'm ******ed)" has become the go-to argument for the whole Cheatriots crowd. Every allegation that had any lasting impact was debunked, so now they're relegated to dumpster diving for conspiracy theories about Goodell covering for us. I expect that the same will happen here.

rlcarr said:

From the "Bedard's weekly appearance on Douchenozzle and YARM show" thread:

"(Bedard) thinks deflate gate will end with a small fine. Says the league thinks they are guilty, but can't prove it. Says the league is checking road games, has reason to believe they should do so, but most teams won't cooperate for fear of the wrath of Belichick."

Couple of things I wonder about from that (assuming it's true...):

First, what exactly does "checking road games" mean?

Second, what does "fear the wrath of Belichick" mean? What would teams fear? His knowledge of where bodies are buried?

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re Wrath of BB: The pats beating them by 60 instead of 30 points. Those kinds of thrashings often lead to head coach and Gen. mgr. firings.

hambone1818 said:

Keep in mind everyone was calling for his head after the Rice debacle. Kraft stood by him every step of the way.

Something else will come up--it always does. Multiple issues over time. Without Kraft in the background supporting Goodell, leading the charge as one of the three or four most influential owners in the sport, the owners as a whole could hang him out to dry.

I don't think the owners would actively try to remove Goodell, but with little support still in his corner (presumably, since we don't know what's going on behind the scenes) the owners could choose to let him fend for himself if he botches another investigation and the media will eat him alive, forcing a change. Maybe it takes a year, three years...whatever it is, I think this is the first big step in that direction.

As some media members have brought up, a guy like Tagliabue would never, ever have allowed his organization and the media to drag a marquee franchise through the mud over deflated footballs; even if it were shown to be 100% substantiated, it would have been handled behind the scenes, with stern warnings and tight lips around the league. Heads would have rolled if leaks were made, and he'd have cleaned up any mess as quickly as possible. Protect the shield, protect the 32 owners and their interests. Goodell, from cameragate to bountygate to Rice to Peterson to deflategate, has proven inept in protecting the leagues and the owners interests. I think Kraft finally realizes that.

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I think one of the major problems for Goodell may be that a sizable percentage of the owners hate the Patriots or are at least jealous of the power Kraft wields. They could be pushing him to do something to weaken Kraft and his franchise, even if it hurts them and their stupid shield. There's nothing quite as nasty and vindictive as the bruised ego of the rich and powerful. That's not to say I feel sorry for G. He is a bumbling idiot, but he could be caught between a rock and a very hard place.

hambone1818 said:

Exactly...the only proof you need is the Rams walkthrough. Completely bogus 'scandal', Walsh admitted as much, Tomase and the Herald were forced to apologize, the league came out and said the Patriots did not tape the walkthrough...and yet whenever stuff comes up the first thing you hear (after spygate) is 'Patriots tape practices'.

The damage can't be undone, which is part of why this was so infuriating as it unfolded--and ESPECIALLY as more information is leaked out suggesting absolutely no wrongdoing.

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So football fans are total morons? Then they deserve the Commissioner they have.

vyrago said:

So football fans are total morons? Then they deserve the Commissioner they have.

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Most fans are blinded by bias and jealousy. I live it every day, MOST of my buddies are Bills fans, they're great guys, love their team. But anytime a whiff of controversy happens with the Patriots, any little thing, they turn into conspiracy theorists and rip the Pats for all their misdeeds over the years.

So I won't say football fans are morons, they're just blindly loyal to their team and threatened by success. They WANT the Patriots to be guilty. Goodell is employed by the NFL owners, to protect the shield and the 32 franchises. Fans don't pay him, don't elect him. Fans deserve a commish who will protect them from their own bias, to keep minor incidents from the public eye and to rule swiftly and clearly on major misconduct. That is not the way Goodell operates. He's the worst commissioner of my lifetime in any of the major sports.

Let's walk this through.

The league announces a minor penalty. The Patriots appeal. There's probably no rule in place saying there has to be a neutral arbitrator for the appeal; however, there's precedent suggesting the Patriots could get one.

If the league is hardcore about denying the right to appeal, the Patriots have a second recourse, namely a lawsuit. Now, the NFL could try to get any suit thrown out. But the Patriots have at least a couple of grounds to try on, so there's a good chance at least one suit would stand. (One ground I'm thinking of is a generic unfair business practices/breach of contract that obligates fairness; the NFL would fight that with a business-judgment kind of defense. Another ground would be slander/libel; it might be a bit tricky to get that thrown out.)

Fencer said:

Let's walk this through.
The league announces a minor penalty. The Patriots appeal. There's probably no rule in place saying there has to be a neutral arbitrator for the appeal; however, there's precedent suggesting the Patriots could get one.

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The NFL bylaws and constitution say that the decision of the commissioner with respect to team (as opposed to player) discipline is "final, conclusive, and unappealable".

Fencer said:

If the league is hardcore about denying the right to appeal, the Patriots have a second recourse, namely a lawsuit. Now, the NFL could try to get any suit thrown out.

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And they'll have a good chance to get it thrown out, given that all 32 teams have agreed to sue the league.

As MA sports lawyer Michael McCann has noted in past articles at SI.com:

McCann said:

Whether Goodell or the Executive Committee issues a punishment, the ruling would be "final, conclusive and unappealable." This language would make it extremely difficult for the Patriots to petition a judge to review a league-imposed punishment. The Patriots, like other teams, have also contractually assented not to sue the league or each other.

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McCann does note that the NFL is required to give NE a formal hearing before issuing any punishment:

McCann said:

Along those lines, Article 8.13 of the constitution makes clear the Goodell shall review accusations against teams for violating rules "affecting the competitive aspects of the game" and issue an appropriate penalty. Article 8.14 is also potentially relevant, as it authorizes Goodell to hear disputes between teams that "involve or affect League policy."

Goodell’s review of Deflategate is by no means instantaneous. The constitution requires the commissioner to provide "notice and hearing" to the accused team. This means the Patriots should receive a formal hearing process to contest the accusations before Goodell issues a punishment.

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Fencer said:

Let's walk this through.

The league announces a minor penalty. The Patriots appeal. There's probably no rule in place saying there has to be a neutral arbitrator for the appeal; however, there's precedent suggesting the Patriots could get one.

If the league is hardcore about denying the right to appeal, the Patriots have a second recourse, namely a lawsuit. Now, the NFL could try to get any suit thrown out. But the Patriots have at least a couple of grounds to try on, so there's a good chance at least one suit would stand. (One ground I'm thinking of is a generic unfair business practices/breach of contract that obligates fairness; the NFL would fight that with a business-judgment kind of defense. Another ground would be slander/libel; it might be a bit tricky to get that thrown out.)

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I'm pretty sure of two things:
1) Appeals are handled by...Roger Goodell. He's the sole arbiter, with the ongoing investigation he'd likely deny the appeal given how thorough Wells' crew is supposedly conducting this investigation.
2) Teams, owners and players cannot sue the NFL. It's in the CBA. Complete non-starter.

If the Patriots are not found guilty of tampering with footballs, but are penalized because there's no proof they didn't tamper with the balls, won't have any real recourse, at least publically. My hope, if this scenario plays out, is that Kraft's strong statement before the SB is a sign that he's ready to play hardball behind the scenes. That he won't take another media-fueled witch hunt turn into sanctions against the team sitting down, not when he believes the key people inside the organization--Belichick and Brady--did absolutely nothing wrong.

So again, if this were to play out we, as fans, will likely be disappointed in the Patriots non-response, but need to realize that there's not much the organization can do legally and need to hope Kraft is making things happen behind the scenes. At a minimum the buddy-buddy relationship with Goodell had better be over and done with regardless of the outcome.

Hmm.

• Al Davis found ways to sue the league, but that was decades ago and no doubt contracts have been revised to try to prevent repeats.
• Someone like Mark Cuban would criticize decisions and incur ever larger fines, but ultimately he'd have to give up.
• There are extreme scorched-earth options, but it is not in Kraft's nature to pursue them.
• Kraft could resign from all league committees, stop cooperating with the league in any but the minimum required way, and so on. That's not in his nature either; he compartmentalizes disputes. But precisely because it isn't, it would be a very strong statement, and one that's a little easier for him to make because of his age and the succession plans he has in place.

Of course, even that last option makes sense only if Kraft believes that the league was not only mistaken, but actually acted in bad faith.

SoxPatsFaninIndy said:

Yeah, I'm thinking they want to check to see if the footballs were taken into the bathroom before every game.

The kid or elderly dude might just have a game day ritual of taking a piss before each game, so I don't really know what that would prove, though.

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It would be a different "kid" for road games.