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Trading up makes too much sense


MrNathanDrake

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We simply don't have enough roster spots for multiple rookies.


Josh Boyce (4th rd pick) couldn't make the team this year.

Aaron Dobson (2nd rd pick) was a healthy scratch for 8 weeks this season. He was quickly IR'd even though his hamstring was not torn.

Alfonso Dennard mysteriously fell off the depth chart and then got IR'd.

James White (4th rd pick) couldn't get on the game-day roster despite high praise this past off season.



Is it really worth drafting numerous guys in the 4th to 7th rds when they might not make the team? Seems like a waste of draft picks. It would be better to trade those to move up and get 2-3 impact players rather than drafting a bunch of players and then cutting them.

If we do trade up, who would you want in the 20-25 range?

I think we have to go DT. Easley is a DE/DT hydrib, not a pure DT and not a strong run stuffer. Our defense was weak against the run and Wilfork is getting older and has maybe 1 year left (if he isn't cut or traded this offseason).
 
I 100% agree, but it probably makes too much sense for them to do it :rolleyes:

If we traded up in the 1st round I'd go WR, DT, or DE.
 
The general impression is that there are about 15-20 first round worthy prospects in this draft. Trading up into the low twenties might actually be a value trade because teams in that range might be glad of the opportunity to trade down.
 
For now, there's only three players I'd want to trade up for: TJ Clemmings, Bud Dupree and Brandon Scherff. I haven't included Dante Fowler because I no longer think he falls. I'm afraid that I DO NOT want to trade up for a DT because to be frank they're not good enough (except possibly Armstead) or WR from this class because there's really nice depth.
 
It would be great if Scherff would fall into the early twenties. I'd gladly move up for him and be done worrying about the LG position for the next decade. This is one of those drafts where I'm hoping we acquire a future pick or two.
 
I would trade up for Cam Erving. He is going to be a beast and has OL position flexibility in case of injury at any position. I also am friends with a guy that works for GM Jr which is run by an ex-nfl scout and he went to the senior bowl and gets to meet/interview draft prospects. He met with Jadaveon Clowney last year. Anyways the problem is that he said as the draft gets closer Erving will shoot up the boards. I don't think he will be within the Pats grasp without giving up a ton but I would love to see him on the pats next season.
 
1. Defensive End
2. Offensive Guard
3. Wide Receiver
4. Running Back
5. Tight End
6. Linebacker
7. Defensive Tackle

1. First Round
2. Second Round
3. Third Round
4. Fourth Round
5. Fourth Round
6. Sixth Round
7. Seven Round

Seven draft selections at seven different positions. That does not take into account double dipping at a specific position either, such as offensive guard. Are Devey and Kline worthy offensive guard backups? How about double dipping at the wide receiver position? Does the New England Patriots coaching staff have faith in Boyce, Dobson, Tyms going forward? What about injuries that occur during training camp and preseason?
 
I definitely see the value of either trading up in this draft, or moving up a round in next year's draft by trading out. We are very close to having a complete team. We realistically could trade out of this entire draft, which I'm not a huge fan of so far, and try to move up for next year.

If we kept the exact same team as we had last year, then we'd have to say that we are the frontrunners for winning it all again. Add to that by having several players coming back from injury or warranting bigger roles (Ridley, Mayo, Ayers, etc.). Those players could be considered as draft picks if you really wanted to stretch it. We've got a lot of talent and a minimum of spots to give them to. Trading up or out seems pretty pragmatic right now, without knowing who leaves in FA.
 
I definitely see the value of either trading up in this draft, or moving up a round in next year's draft by trading out. We are very close to having a complete team. We realistically could trade out of this entire draft, which I'm not a huge fan of so far, and try to move up for next year.

If we kept the exact same team as we had last year, then we'd have to say that we are the frontrunners for winning it all again. Add to that by having several players coming back from injury or warranting bigger roles (Ridley, Mayo, Ayers, etc.). Those players could be considered as draft picks if you really wanted to stretch it. We've got a lot of talent and a minimum of spots to give them to. Trading up or out seems pretty pragmatic right now, without knowing who leaves in FA.

I see this logic, but I think a quantity draft with some transfer of resources to future years is plausible as well.

The Pats top of the roster was very good this year, but as I see it, the depth in a few areas was either shaky or projects to be questionable going forward. I am assuming that starting secondary, quarterbacks, and O-linemen should routinely see 90% of snaps or more if they are healthy, but D-line, LB, WR, non-all World TEs, and RBs should be rested/rotated a bit more for situational purposes.

The Pats have two defensive ends (Jones, Nink) who play 90% to 95% of the snaps when the player is healthy. The top signed reserve is a projection project from a small school who looks interesting but that is it. There is depth need here.

The defensive tackle 0/1 techique has Wilfork and Siligia signed --- Wilfork played 73% of the snaps this year, which is a significant decline from previous snap counts. When the Pats play big fronts (3 big DTs plus Chandler Jones, who is the third big DT?) I like Wilfork, but I think he is declining, so a space eating monster could be useful here. 3 Technique has a 1st rounder with potential and then Jones/Vellano, so again, Jones/Vellano could be upgraded.

LBs --- when Mayo was healthy, the Patriots seldom took Mayo, Collins, Hightower off the field. Once Mayo was out for the year, the Pats elected to play a base nickel as their 4th linebacker (Casillas or Skinner) rarely saw the field. A 4th LB that probably played OLB in college would be useful here.

RB -- Right now the RB group is Blount, Bolden, Gray, White ---- I would not mind seeng Vereen or Ridley back if the price is right, but there is a space here.

TE -- GRONK plus a disappearing Wright and a limited Hooman --- there is space for either a true Y-Flex tight end or an F-TE to back-up Gronk. I would like to see Gronk down to only 90% of healthy snaps

WR -- Edelman and Lafell make a nice 1-2, Amendola is not a bad #3 but not at his current salary --- Boyce, Tyms, Dobson were all slightly more productive than Matthew Slater as WR 4-6 --- improvements could be made here.

Throw in bottom of the roster competition for interior O-line, and I could see half a dozen rookies sticking with two or three getting decent playing time (OG, DE, 4th LB)
 
I see this logic, but I think a quantity draft with some transfer of resources to future years is plausible as well.

The Pats top of the roster was very good this year, but as I see it, the depth in a few areas was either shaky or projects to be questionable going forward. I am assuming that starting secondary, quarterbacks, and O-linemen should routinely see 90% of snaps or more if they are healthy, but D-line, LB, WR, non-all World TEs, and RBs should be rested/rotated a bit more for situational purposes.

The Pats have two defensive ends (Jones, Nink) who play 90% to 95% of the snaps when the player is healthy. The top signed reserve is a projection project from a small school who looks interesting but that is it. There is depth need here.

The defensive tackle 0/1 techique has Wilfork and Siligia signed --- Wilfork played 73% of the snaps this year, which is a significant decline from previous snap counts. When the Pats play big fronts (3 big DTs plus Chandler Jones, who is the third big DT?) I like Wilfork, but I think he is declining, so a space eating monster could be useful here. 3 Technique has a 1st rounder with potential and then Jones/Vellano, so again, Jones/Vellano could be upgraded.

LBs --- when Mayo was healthy, the Patriots seldom took Mayo, Collins, Hightower off the field. Once Mayo was out for the year, the Pats elected to play a base nickel as their 4th linebacker (Casillas or Skinner) rarely saw the field. A 4th LB that probably played OLB in college would be useful here.

RB -- Right now the RB group is Blount, Bolden, Gray, White ---- I would not mind seeng Vereen or Ridley back if the price is right, but there is a space here.

TE -- GRONK plus a disappearing Wright and a limited Hooman --- there is space for either a true Y-Flex tight end or an F-TE to back-up Gronk. I would like to see Gronk down to only 90% of healthy snaps

WR -- Edelman and Lafell make a nice 1-2, Amendola is not a bad #3 but not at his current salary --- Boyce, Tyms, Dobson were all slightly more productive than Matthew Slater as WR 4-6 --- improvements could be made here.

Throw in bottom of the roster competition for interior O-line, and I could see half a dozen rookies sticking with two or three getting decent playing time (OG, DE, 4th LB)

Great post man. I think you highlighted our spots pretty well. Depth is always a concern as injuries, such as Mayo's, can take a great player away. You need a guy to step up or be acquired (Ayers) in order to fill that void. A trade out does look good in this draft though. We could really benefit in another year from that as we try to maintain this squad's championship aspirations over the long haul.
 
For now, there's only three players I'd want to trade up for: TJ Clemmings, Bud Dupree and Brandon Scherff.

I couldn't agree more Manx. There are of course the usual suspects that are mocked very early in case they would fall completely unexpected. Realistically (or maybe not after the combine), I would love TJ Clemmings in the first round. I rate him higher than Scherff. Selfishly, I hope he has a disappointing combine so he might drop into our range.
 
I agree that we seem to have a lot of mid level draft capital this year. And not a lot of open rosters post where 6-8 rooks make the team. So, we either trade up with some of it or trade out to 2016 with some of it. Maybe both.
I have a question for the draftniks on this site. How far up in the second round could we move up for our 2nd, 3rd and 4th (I'd prefer to keep the 4th we acquired from TB in the Mankins trade because its so high in the 4th and that if the right players are still on the board, that we could likely spin it to a high 3rd or low second in 2016, depending on who we are trading with. Or, we just use it in 2015 and take the BPA.

For our 2nd, 3rd and 4th, how high up could we move in the second round?

Thank you in advance.
 
I agree that we seem to have a lot of mid level draft capital this year. And not a lot of open rosters post where 6-8 rooks make the team. So, we either trade up with some of it or trade out to 2016 with some of it. Maybe both.
I have a question for the draftniks on this site. How far up in the second round could we move up for our 2nd, 3rd and 4th (I'd prefer to keep the 4th we acquired from TB in the Mankins trade because its so high in the 4th and that if the right players are still on the board, that we could likely spin it to a high 3rd or low second in 2016, depending on who we are trading with. Or, we just use it in 2015 and take the BPA.

For our 2nd, 3rd and 4th, how high up could we move in the second round?

Thank you in advance.

http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

Here's a link to the draft value chart. It can give you an idea of what it might cost.
 
I'd only trade up Brandon Scherff, or Shane Ray or Amari Cooper/Kevin White White if possible, be thrilled with any of those 4, particularly the two trenchmen
 
I think bb would trade up for the right guy, if he finds a dance partner.

But the value play is to make a deal to trade back from #32 and push as many picks as possible into 2016.

Bb loves two things: good value and wasting 3rd round picks.
 
We simply don't have enough roster spots for multiple rookies.

Josh Boyce (4th rd pick) couldn't make the team this year.

Aaron Dobson (2nd rd pick) was a healthy scratch for 8 weeks this season. He was quickly IR'd even though his hamstring was not torn.

Alfonso Dennard mysteriously fell off the depth chart and then got IR'd.

James White (4th rd pick) couldn't get on the game-day roster despite high praise this past off season.

Is it really worth drafting numerous guys in the 4th to 7th rds when they might not make the team? Seems like a waste of draft picks. It would be better to trade those to move up and get 2-3 impact players rather than drafting a bunch of players and then cutting them.

Obviously we are not privvy to the coaching staff's opinions regarding the current roster, but from the outside looking in this looks spot on. To add to the above:

In 2013 the Patriots considered themselves so talent-poor on the backend of the roster that they made 7 waiver claims on rookies during final cutdowns.

In 2014, the Patriots outright cut 3 of 4 of their 6th-7th round draft picks (Jon Halapio, Jemea Thomas, Jeremy Gallon), the sole survivor being Zach Moore, who was mostly a gameday inactive.

In addition to Josh Boyce, Joe Vellano, a 2013 year-long active player, was on the practice squad for most of 2014.

Currently the middle-class and the back-end of this roster is stacked. There are perhaps three positions (OG,LB,WR) where you could project a clear opening for a young backup-quality player. When you have the luxury of targeting improving positions over general roster quality that is the kernel of the argument for trading around to get the players you like at the positions that need to be filled for good value.

You can always trade out and collect picks in next years draft.

This is the other aspect of the current situation. Unless there is a huge roster shakeup (McCourty, Revis depart, Amendola is outright cut, etc.) the Pats late-round picks will be playing for the Cowboys and Titans by October. There's really no place to put them on the roster.

But almost certainly the Pats are going to have depth-issues at one or more positions during the 2015 due to injury. It's hard to structure your roster in August to ensure you'll have a deep roster in December, accounting for every possible injury scenario.

The past two years, the Pats have used their late-round picks to go out at the last moment and get out-of-favor players (Sopoaga, Ayers, Casillias) at positions where depth is needed. This year the players the Pats grabbed in that fashion were big parts of the reason this team won the Super Bowl. The first-round bye and home-field advantage they helped attain were benefits to this team and detriments to the teams we played (Colts especially) and even to teams we didn't. (Broncos not wanting to go to Foxborough)

So our 2014 late picks will likely have little value to us in 2014. Trading out for 2015 picks, however, will give the Pats tremendous flexability to go out and get that 4th-year or veteran spot starter at a need spot in October.

I see this logic, but I think a quantity draft with some transfer of resources to future years is plausible as well.

The Pats top of the roster was very good this year, but as I see it, the depth in a few areas was either shaky or projects to be questionable going forward.

Agree with your position-by-position analysis, but I see more of an argument for improvements to the top of the roster, not the back-end.

Neither Chandler Jones nor Ninkovich are coming off the field unless the Pats get someone better. Ayers was clearly rotation-quality this year and he disappeared when Jones was healthy again.

If you want to improve a position that could clearly be upgraded (OG) then signing a bunch of late-round rookies to back up Wendell isn't the way to go. You want a starting guard that makes Wendell a swing-backup on the interior.

OG, DL, WR/TE and RB seem to be clear spots where the Pats could get better starting talent (and WR/TE is a total crapshoot in this system). You grab starting talent there and the backups are set too. The Pats had a "depth problem" at DB when Talib was injured the last two playoff campaigns, but sign Revis and Browner for the top of the roster and suddenly flotsam like Chung are competent starting players and the Pats have the best depth in the league at the CB position. Some of that is the fortuitous nature of having an UDFA CB like Butler fight his way onto the roster at the expense of LB depth but the Pats have a track-record of that and again that is fine IF you have the ability to bolster depth at the trade-deadline by trading late picks. The first weeks of the season the Pats are shaking out their roster anyway.

So anyway, without understanding just how this draft projects or how FA will shake out, the Pats should be looking to move up to get starting-caliber players at the positions they want to fill, then trading their remaining picks out in order to acquire depth later. They don't need to rebuild the entire roster or any one side of the ball.
 
Add to that by having several players coming back from injury or warranting bigger roles (Ridley, Mayo, Ayers, etc.). Those players could be considered as draft picks if you really wanted to stretch it. We've got a lot of talent and a minimum of spots to give them to. Trading up or out seems pretty pragmatic right now, without knowing who leaves in FA.

Only if you're projecting the Pats lose no-one to injury in 2015...
 
Only if you're projecting the Pats lose no-one to injury in 2015...

That's a projection that I'd like to see become a reality;) I wonder if that's even a possibility. I think the amount of injuries we had this year could even be considered light in the game of football.
 


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