The Patriots will pick a RB in the first 2 rounds

ZoisKing said:

I was checking Vereen's stats and he was fourth in the NFL in receptions for RBs, and fifth in yards. That's pretty darn good, especially considering he was like our fourth or fifth option in our passing offense.

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Yep, Vereen is a good 3rd down RB out of the back field. I mentioned he is the only back that is above average in one of my post you probably did not get to read cause you were busy typing this. The problem isn't having a RB that can catch if we keep Vereen. The problem is having a RB that can run which is what I am talking about really. Even if they keep him he will not allow them to run better.

BTW, Seattle and Baltimore were the 3rd and 4th best run defenses in the league this year.

Edit-or 2nd and 3rd best rush defenses if you consider yards per attempt.

ZoisKing said:

I think most RBs could say the same against tough defenses. Marshawn Lynch who is given the title of best back in the game by some, barely managed 4 yards against our D Line in the SB. It's all relative. Tough run defenses don't give up rushing yards.

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That tends to be true. However 14 yards is pathetic and Baltimore was the only really good run D we faced but 14 yards on 13 carries is not excusable. Also Seattle's run D was average in the post season. They allowed 135 and 132 yards before playing us and we only get 57? I agree a great run D will stop a great run O but when you play anything less than a great run D you should be able to get something going on the ground.

As you mentioned Seattle was ranked as a good run D but I think it was more a matter of them being able to stack the box cause of not respecting a lot of bad QBs they played.

When they played good running teams they were able to get run on (KC, GB, Car, Dal, ect)

Also when facing a healthy Matthews (SD) they got run on pretty decently.

BobDigital said:

That tends to be true. However 14 yards is pathetic and Baltimore was the only really good but 14 yards on 13 carries is not excusable. Also Seattle's run D was average in the post season. They allowed 135 and 132 yards before playing us and we only get 57? I agree a great run D will stop a great run O but when you play anything less than a great run D you should be able to get something going on the ground.

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The obvious problem against Baltimore was being down 14 points twice. We had to move the ball downfield in order to come back. That 14 yards was predicated on being down big. If we hadn't been down so big, in part due to our inability to get to the QB (big reason to emphasize getting DL early) then we'd have seen a different result in the running game. If that hadn't happened, then I'd say having another OL to create gaps would have been a greater benefit as well.

That's my reasoning in having our first 3 picks being linemen. Put all players (including RBs) in a position to succeed. If Vereen leaves, and Ridley isn't back, then I could see a RB in the draft, but one taken after the first 3 picks.

The pats WILL NOT take a running back in the first two rnds, thats not how he drafts. He did it once and got burned with maroney. Besides he won the SB by passing and rushed a minimum of times. I'm sure hes happy with blount, grey, and vereen. I think they'd re-sign ridly before they used that high of a pick on a running back.

Decent chance a pretty good back drops to the 3-4th round range. On the high end, this is where some of the top rb's could go. Don't necessarily have to pick one in Rounds 1 or 2 to get a good prospect. Maybe, a slight trade up in Round 3.

Round 1
Todd Gurley - Georgia - Coming off ACL surgery in Nov.
Melvin Gordon - Wisconsin

Round 2
TJ Yeldon - Alabama
Tevin Coleman - Indiana - Inj concern. Broken foot. Could drop
Ameer Abdullah - Nebraska
Duke Johnson - Miami Fla

Round 3
D. Cobb - Minnesota
Mike Davis - South Carolina
Jay Ajayi - Boise St

Others
Buck Allen - USC
David Johnson - N. Iowa
Jeremy Langford - Mich St
Karlos Williams - FSU

patsfaninpa said:

Decent chance a pretty good back drops to the 3-4th round range. On the high end, this is where some of the top rb's could go. Don't necessarily have to pick one in Rounds 1 or 2 to get a good prospect. Maybe, a slight trade up in Round 3.

Round 1
Todd Gurley - Georgia - Coming off ACL surgery in Nov.
Melvin Gordon - Wisconsin

Round 2
TJ Yeldon - Alabama
Tevin Coleman - Indiana - Inj concern. Broken foot. Could drop
Ameer Abdullah - Nebraska
Duke Johnson - Miami Fla

Round 3
D. Cobb - Minnesota
Mike Davis - South Carolina
Jay Ajayi - Boise St

Others
Buck Allen - USC
David Johnson - N. Iowa
Jeremy Langford - Mich St
Karlos Williams - FSU

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Is Gurley still a lock for the first round? I know how good he is (I attend UGA), but his injury and off the field decision making are question marks.

I think Gray and Ridley could run on them IF the line could get some movement on the snap. Anything. Just doesn't seem to be anything like a hole for anyone to go through. Blount takes time to gather himself sometimes, he gets a lot of runs for minimal yards.

reflexblue said:

The pats WILL NOT take a running back in the first two rnds, thats not how he drafts. He did it once and got burned with maroney. Besides he won the SB by passing and rushed a minimum of times. I'm sure hes happy with blount, grey, and vereen. I think they'd re-sign ridly before they used that high of a pick on a running back.

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I agree. Those short passes to Vereen in the SB were huge, and could be viewed as a quasi-running game. Another thing about getting a true blue do it all RB is that its going to cost you more than a high draft pick down the line (salary hit), and RBs are notorious for being the most banged up of skills players.

kennyb said:

I think Gray and Ridley could run on them IF the line could get some movement on the snap. Anything. Just doesn't seem to be anything like a hole for anyone to go through. Blount takes time to gather himself sometimes, he gets a lot of runs for minimal yards.

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Exactly. What hole was Blount supposed to be running through? He was waiting for something to open up, and it wasn't there. I know what we would like for our RBs to be able to do, but running through a mountain of men is too much to ask for. Nobody can do that.

ZoisKing said:

Is Gurley still a lock for the first round? I know how good he is (I attend UGA), but his injury and off the field decision making are question marks.

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I didn't say Gurley is a first round lock. I said this is the end of where they COULD go. Do you consider signing autographs an off-field decision making question mark? NFL teams don't give a rats arse about something as meaningless as what he did.

patsfaninpa said:

I didn't say Gurley is a first round lock. I said this is the end of where they COULD go. Do you consider signing autographs an off-field decision making question mark? NFL teams don't give a rats arse about something as meaningless as what he did.

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You and others have Gurley as a first rounder. Enough people have mentioned it that I tossed in the dreaded "first round lock" label.

As far as the off the field question marks, yes I would consider making money off autographs a decision making error, and a question mark. How could you not. Whether you rate it a big time error is another thing altogether. However, he knew it was against the rules and he still did it. Teams will look at it, and make a decision. You may not give a rat's arse, but others may.

ZoisKing said:

You and others have Gurley as a first rounder. Enough people have mentioned it that I tossed in the dreaded "first round lock" label.

As far as the off the field question marks, yes I would consider making money off autographs a decision making error, and a question mark. How could you not. Whether you rate it a big time error is another thing altogether. However, he knew it was against the rules and he still did it. Teams will look at it, and make a decision. You may not give a rat's arse, but others may.

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What do you think of Jeremy Hill? He sexually assaulted a 14 year old girl when he was over 18 in high school. And, he punched a guy in the face from the blindside in the parking lot of a bar. He went in the 2nd round last year.

Typical rule of thumb for RBs in the draft, is that there are usually 8 drafted in the top 100 picks. There could be as many as 10, as few as 6, but 8 tends to be the magic number.

As far as quality, it can be all over the place, and where within those 8 are drafted has very little value. I would say its unlikely we use a top 60pick on one, but Gurley is one who could move me. He just is a step beyond the rest, but obviously not without some questions with his health.


I also see Buck as my RB binkie, since he blocks, runs with power, and has soft hands out of the backfield.

BobDigital said:

Having to make Brady throw 50 times to win both our tough playoff games is certainty not ideal.

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Having Brady throw 40+ times was the game plan for Seattle as Seattle does two things very well --- stop the run and deny chunk plays in the passing game. The Patriots had demonstrated a willingness to avoid running into brick walls in the past (the Minnesota game to avoid the Williams Wall with 20+ straight passes to start the game etc), and given that Brady is an excellent fast decision maker with good short range throws, it makes sense. As long as Brady is still playing like he did this year, the coaches won't hesitate to craft game plans against some teams that will, if everything goes right, have Brady throw 40+ times.

Now the Baltimore game, I agree, the game plan probably did not envision being down by 14 twice, so the running game went out the window then.

patsfaninpa said:

What do you think of Jeremy Hill? He sexually assaulted a 14 year old girl when he was over 18 in high school. And, he punched a guy in the face from the blindside in the parking lot of a bar. He went in the 2nd round last year.

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Jeremy Hill went to the Bengals, correct? That doesn't surprise me. With teams later in the first round, you start to have better teams making decisions based on character. They are more ready to succeed, and don't routinely take players with flags. You could argue that Cincinatti is one of those teams, but they aren't legit contenders.

If Gurley does make it to the late first, I think more questions will be asked concerning his injury and how healthy he will be moving forward, rather than his autograph incident. That is why I could see him slipping.

I'm surprised you're so defensive to my original quote though. It wasn't meant to degrade your opinion. Merely an observation. Take it as you will though.

fester said:

Now the Baltimore game, I agree, the game plan probably did not envision being down by 14 twice, so the running game went out the window then.

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Being down is one thing. However if you are trying to tell me if the game was close or even if the Patriots were up they would have continued running while getting a 1.1YPA average then I don't buy it.

The fact is the run game sucked that game and being down was not the reason. It is not like they were picking up 4 yard chunks but were forced to get away from it. It simply did not work cause it was not good enough. Saying anything else to me is trying to make excuses for it.

reflexblue said:

The pats WILL NOT take a running back in the first two rnds, thats not how he drafts. He did it once and got burned with maroney. Besides he won the SB by passing and rushed a minimum of times. I'm sure hes happy with blount, grey, and vereen. I think they'd re-sign ridly before they used that high of a pick on a running back.

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You can say he will not do it. You can list reasons why he won't if you want. You can say you don't like it (I am not a fan of it). You CAN NOT say it is "not how he drafts" cause it is. I showed in the OP that it is how he drafts in certain situations.

On 3 occasions he used either a 1st or 2nd rounder to trade for or draft a RB. Those are facts on the record and that part of your post is simply not true.

Now another part of your post could be true. Maybe he sees Blount/Grey/Ridley(if he signs) as good enough. Vereen does not really enter into this as he is here to catch not run.

Also you could argue this team does not/will not fit the past trends I laid out where he has used top draft capital on RBs. That is fair to argue and you might have a point.

BB has also showed he is not afraid to draft a player with a top pick after getting burned by a player in the same position using a top pick. I don't think that will stop him. Maybe you could show me a post showing how it might. I am not at all convinced of that though.

i could conceivably see them take a RB at 32 or not take one at all, its a weird position for them

Todd Gurley is a rare prospect. Providing he checks out medically, he's well worth the use of a first round pick. Like Marshawn Lynch, Gurley is the type of RB that transforms an offense.