Are Patriots achievements unprecedented in major sports?

Froob · Feb 12, 2015

Here's a good Pop interview for you guys, Belichick esque in a way but a bit more upfront.
http://sportsglory.com/nba/gregg-popovich-argues-nba-every-year-quarter-interviews/34965

Q: Have you argued to have those after-quarter interviews eliminated?

A: Oh, Sure. Hell, I bring it up every year at the head coaches meeting in Chicago, when all the head coaches are there and TNT and ESPN and all the representatives. I raise my hand every year, and I say, “Well guys, you know what I’m going to say. I don’t understand why we have to do this, to subject the coaches and the questioners to this little period of idiocy. They (the TV people) are in our timeouts the entire game. They have cameras in our timeouts. They hear everything we say. They have microphones and they can use anything they want — you know, we trust them. So if they have total access like that, this end of first and third quarter actually takes us away from our job.” And that’s my philosophical difference with them.

I said, “I’m supposed to be setting the defense and offense to start the next quarter, and I can’t do my job because I’m doing this inane deal with whoever is asking me a question.” The questions are unanswerable. It’s like, “That quarter, you got killed on the boards. What are you going to do about it?.” “Well, I’m going to conduct a trade during timeouts.” Or, “I’m going to ask them nicely to do a better job on the boards.” The questions just demand a trite quip, or something, so I just say, “You know, it just puts everybody in a stupid position.” And (NBA officials) listen to it, and then they go, “Yeah, well (blabbering).” And then they don’t do anything about it. So I just do what I do.

Q: Have you given up yet as far as trying to get those interviews eliminated or do you just keep fighting?

A: Oh yeah. I’m going to say it every year. I do it, and then … two, three four times it’ll come up, and I’ll say I don’t agree with the NBA. They don’t need it. It’s superfluous. It’s awkward for the questioner. It puts the coach in a position where he looks ignorant or trite, or that “Well, one game at a time stuff,” or “Well, we’ll try to do better this quarter. Maybe we’ll shoot better.” It’s just — it makes no sense. You can’t answer a question in 10 seconds. You can’t do it. I’ve gotten to the point where I have fun with them now. It’s part humor, part sarcasm. If I have a questioner who’s really kind of fun, then we really have a good time. Like (TNT’s Craig) Sager or somebody.

Read more: http://sportsglory.com/nba/gregg-po...y-year-quarter-interviews/34965#ixzz3RY6BSDRk

Patsrock · Feb 12, 2015

Detroit Red Wings have been pretty damn good and consistent also. 4 Stanley Cups since 1997.

Halifax_Pats_Fan · Feb 12, 2015

My Oilers have won 5 Stanley cups in the 80's.....haven't sipped from Lord Stanley since but they owned the 80's...

zydecochris · Feb 12, 2015

Fixit said:
Larry Bird was a pretty athletic guy. He wasn't fast no, but he could jump pretty high, he could muscle for rebounds, his passing was beautiful, and he had great instincts. Flashy athleticism just wasn't his game.

He never looked athletic because his physical appearance always made him look awkward.

Brady is also athletic. Once again, not fast, but he has a strong arm, can absorb big hits, and is very agile within a limited space.

People need to stop equating "speed" with "athleticism."

I don't remember Bird being able to jump too high, but IMHO too many basketball watchers equate being athletic with running fast and jumping high.

Bird had absolutely remarkable hand eye coordination and quickness, that is part of being athletic also. I agree with you that Bird was plenty athletic, just not with blazing speed or amazing hops.

Patsrock · Feb 12, 2015

Halifax_Pats_Fan said:
My Oilers have won 5 Stanley cups in the 80's.....haven't sipped from Lord Stanley since but they owned the 80's...

Good! Your Oilers ruined the beginning of teenage years! 88 and 90 ugh!

Observer · Feb 12, 2015

To say Brady doesn't have top of the line physical skills is flat out incorrect. His role is to make accurate passes and he does it better than anyone. I would say he has the greatest physical skills out of all qbs in the game.

zydecochris · Feb 12, 2015

zydecochris said:
I don't remember Bird being able to jump too high, but IMHO too many basketball watchers equate being athletic with running fast and jumping high.

Bird had absolutely remarkable hand eye coordination and quickness, that is part of being athletic also. I agree with you that Bird was plenty athletic, just not with blazing speed or amazing hops.

Similarly, I happened to see the Spurs in person a few years ago when they were in complete "goof off" mode. They were pulverized in that game by the Hawks.

However, what was interesting was the pre-game warm-ups. Duncan (another guy who can't run or jump) was goofing off, and his hand eye coordination was remarkable. He can dribble like a point guard and make all sorts of circus shots, he just doesn't ever do any of that type of thing in games (he is a super-smart player just like Bird and Brady so in games he only does what maximizes his success).

goheels22002 · Feb 12, 2015

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_(sports)

Bobsyouruncle · Feb 12, 2015

shmessy said:
Please.

Contemporaneously: 6'9" Bill Russell 9 NBA Championships vs. Wilt Chamberlain 7'1" 1 NBA Championship.

All you have to do is to look at this picture to understand the height differential.

Bill Russell (left) and Wilt Chamberlain square off in a 1968 gam

Also Bill Russell won 2 NCAA Championships with USF and a Gold medal with the USA Basketball team.

He also won 2 of his total 11 NBA Championships as a player/ COACH (let's see Brady win 2 Lombardis as a Head Coach).

The last one was in 1969, where he led a 4th place team that was old, decrepit and very low on talent to win it all in a 7th game in Los Angeles against what is still considered to be one of he most talent laden teams in NBA history.

Bill Russell was BIBLICAL.

End of story. We all love TFB, but please........

I really hate to be the one to rain on this parade because I'm a Celtics fan, but IMO when we say things like this while ignoring some rather important differences it just comes off as homerism. How do you respond when someone says Otto Graham is the greatest QB of all time winning 7 Championships in 10 years when the league had 8 teams? Or bring up the dozen or so CHI championships back in the 30's and 40's. Or say they'd like to see Brady be a QB and a LBer like Snuffy McOldf*** did in 1922.

Nobody takes those arguments seriously from CHI fans and others (for the most part), but then we turn around and sell the same thing because we're Celtic fans.

The NBA had 8 teams when Russell started playing, the NBA was barely more than an intramural league trying to survive and not go bankrupt. Not the sort of league drawing international talent that kids work their whole life to get to. Just based on odds from number of teams it's harder to win 4 today then 8 when Russell played.

Russell was a great no doubt, but trying to compare his championships to the modern day just doesn't fly. Saying he played and coached in his era just makes people dismiss his era.

OhExaulted1 · Feb 12, 2015

Froob said:
San Antonio Spurs in the Duncan and Pop era are a great comparison for soooo many reasons. Been at or near the top of the West for like 16 years, Duncan is a humble superstar, Pop is a smart ass to the media, a lot of quality well coached players instead of a few super stars. And 5 championships and counting.

Outside of football, this is actually the best comparison with the 49er and Patriot reign as a close second. The Yankee, Celtic and Canadien dynasties of multiple eras are hard to equate. Those are the 3 major sports where you can attribute long stretches of dominance.

CelticPatriot · Feb 12, 2015

Football is one of the only major sports where you don't need to be athletic to do well, so I'd say no. Although in the same token, some players are only good because they're athletes, which doesn't happen in many other sports either. It's what makes the sport great.

In "Soccer" for example you need a mix of both. Ie, you could be the fastest strongest guy in the world, but if you can't pass a ball, read the game etc, it's completely pointless. You could also be the best passer of a ball in the history of football, but if you don't have the stamina or strength to actually keep up with the game, get tackled, make tackles etc then you are useless.

RayClay · Feb 12, 2015

Fixit said:
Larry Bird was a pretty athletic guy. He wasn't fast no, but he could jump pretty high, he could muscle for rebounds, his passing was beautiful, and he had great instincts. Flashy athleticism just wasn't his game.

He never looked athletic because his physical appearance always made him look awkward.

Brady is also athletic. Once again, not fast, but he has a strong arm, can absorb big hits, and is very agile within a limited space.

People need to stop equating "speed" with "athleticism."

He couldn't jump for s**t.

RayClay · Feb 12, 2015

zydecochris said:
I don't remember Bird being able to jump too high, but IMHO too many basketball watchers equate being athletic with running fast and jumping high.

Bird had absolutely remarkable hand eye coordination and quickness, that is part of being athletic also. I agree with you that Bird was plenty athletic, just not with blazing speed or amazing hops.

I'd agree with that, but a lot of that had to do with how much he practiced technique and how focused he was. bird made quick moves because he was practiced and decisive. Measure running jumping etc. and he migh not be average in the NBA.

RayClay · Feb 12, 2015

Bird and brady are excellent comparisons. How do you think Brady became more elusive and ran more at 37? Not because he became more athletic. H esimply decided he would, practiced and exercised and had more ability when it came up in the game.

RayClay · Feb 12, 2015

Observer said:
To say Brady doesn't have top of the line physical skills is flat out incorrect. His role is to make accurate passes and he does it better than anyone. I would say he has the greatest physical skills out of all qbs in the game.

No one said he didn't have physical skills. Skills are generally learned.

Casanova Frankenstein · Feb 12, 2015

1960Pats said:
I'll see your Larry Bird and raise you a Bill Russell.

Nice shout out to Bill Russell; the man was a BEAST! Criminally underrated.

I.M. Fletcher · Feb 12, 2015

Gretzky will forever be the gold standard of winning with his mind, but he didnt have the benefit of a great coach to lead him through his career.

Duncan and Pop are an excellent equivalent, Yzerman and Bowman would also fit the bill. At the end of the day, no player in pro sports has a higher impact than an NFL QB, and no coach has a greater role than an NFL coach. In that regard, there really isnt a fair comparison to another sport or another dynasty.

Fixit · Feb 12, 2015

RayClay said:
He couldn't jump for s**t.

He had a 28" vertical. He wasn't jumping out of the gym, but he could jump high enough to average 10 boards a game and reverse flush when necessary. Come on, now.

shmessy · Feb 12, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
I really hate to be the one to rain on this parade because I'm a Celtics fan, but IMO when we say things like this while ignoring some rather important differences it just comes off as homerism. How do you respond when someone says Otto Graham is the greatest QB of all time winning 7 Championships in 10 years when the league had 8 teams? Or bring up the dozen or so CHI championships back in the 30's and 40's. Or say they'd like to see Brady be a QB and a LBer like Snuffy McOldf*** did in 1922.

Nobody takes those arguments seriously from CHI fans and others (for the most part), but then we turn around and sell the same thing because we're Celtic fans.

The NBA had 8 teams when Russell started playing, the NBA was barely more than an intramural league trying to survive and not go bankrupt. Not the sort of league drawing international talent that kids work their whole life to get to. Just based on odds from number of teams it's harder to win 4 today then 8 when Russell played.

Russell was a great no doubt, but trying to compare his championships to the modern day just doesn't fly. Saying he played and coached in his era just makes people dismiss his era.

"Saying he played and coached in his era just makes people dismiss his era".

So how many other player/coaches won NBA titles "in his era". Oh yeah, none.

How many BLACK player/coaches won NBA titles "in his era"? Oh yeah, none.

How many black player/coaches were there in ANY major American sport "in his era"? Oh yeah, none.

He also won back to back NCAAs and an Olympic Gold.

11 NBA Titles, 2 NCAA titles, 1 Olympic Gold.

First black head coach in the NBA.

First black head coach in ANY major American sport. (How many social barriers has Brady broken?)

(Do you have ANY understanding of what that meant - - Do you know what he had to battle against - - even to live in the Massachusetts suburbs "in his era"??)

And he won 9 in Wilt's face (or chest, because he was 4 inches shorter).

Bill Russell helped his team beat Chamberlain's teams because Russell studied geometry and angles and put that study into practice on the court. No one before or since played defensive angles and positioning better than Bill Russell. No one studied angles of rebounding better than Bill Russell. He outthought opponents and was the most cerebral player in NBA history.

He is the most prolific Champion in American modern major sports history. And he did it by using his mind.

You are arguing against a BIBLICAL figure.

Rusty Coupe · Feb 12, 2015

The Bird-Brady comparison might be best made with their desire to win, and their respective abilities to see the whole court/field and read what the other team is trying do. Also, they both liked to talk trash while playing.

McHale was a mismatch nightmare for other teams much like Gronkowski. Kevin's footwork underneath, and his really long arms made him almost unstoppable underneath the basket, or with close in fade aways.

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