Tom Brady's arm ???

Crononaut said:

Turned off the moment he said Brady was in the bottom 10% of QB's in terms of arm strength, citing his poor deep throwing as evidence.

Brady's issue with deep throws is accuracy, not strength, and many underthrows this season were the result of throwing as he was being hit. Heck, most of his misses are overthrows. Manning has better accuracy on the deep pass but it's because he's throwing up floaters that he can put right where he wants to.

Brady throws a laser as good as anyone in the NFL.

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This post is spot on. Sums it up perfectly.

Brady used to go deep to Branch quite a bit, over the top bombs 40 yards downfield. Branch happens to be the only receiver in the last 15 years other than Moss and Bethel Johnson who had the capability to adjust his body and track the ball. Most teams covet such abilities and predicate their passing games on them, whereas the Patriots preferred smaller shifter guys who could create space for throws. Even bigger WRs like Givens didn't have the speed or tracking ability to snag long bombs.

If you've ever watched QB skills competitions in the summer or at the Pro Bowl, you would see QBs try to throw the ball into a big trash container about 40 yards downfield. if you watched that you would have seen them able to hit the bucket only 10% of the time tops. The QBs were always only within yards of the target. This shows how much WRs have to do with tracking the ball. They make adjustments, slow down, speed up, turn their bodies, jump, etc.

Steve:Section 102 said:

First, I don't think I'm out of my mind, but I've been proven wrong before.

Second, They just beat the best defense in the NFL and defending SB champ by playing dink and dunk. Brady's ability to get the ball out in less than 3 seconds minimized the pass rush. I would go so far as to say if they had gone more short game vs. the Giants in '07, there would be two undefeated teams in NFL history. Deep routes (nine, go's) take longer develop, which exposes the QB to more of the hits you're talking about.

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And you double down on the crazy. They tried going dink and dunk in 2007. The Giants shut it down. This has been gone over about a million times.

However, 18-1, 3 minutes from 19-0, and the greatest offense of all time (at least up until that point), is pretty good evidence that Brady having a deep threat is a damn good idea.

Isn't Bob Ryan supposed to be retired??

DarrylS said:

Tom Brady does not throw long because he does not have to.. none of this matters, as long as we win.

If I remember correctly Montana did not throw a lot of long balls either..

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Russell Wilson can throw the ball long, but it's the one-yarders that really give him nightmares.

My $0.02:

- i don't view Brady as a great deep ball thrower, but I don't believe it is due to insufficient arm strength. As many here have pointed out, I think it has something to do with the talents of the receivers he has had. Part of that talent is how fast they are and how well they adjust to the ball during its flight, but also it is how well those receivers have been able to learn their entire role in the Pats offense, being precise in their routes and timing, blocking well downfield, etc. The Pats just haven't drafted anyone other than Branch and maybe Givens who fit what they do very well while also being effective with Brady on the deep ball. They've had similarly tough results with free agents or trade acquisitions not named Patton, Welker, Stallwoth, LaFell, and Moss. Talent evaluation and coaching the position are factors in this, IMHO.

- Brady's own talent is also a big factor. I don't think it's this huge insult to him to say he has some limitations or even some flaws. He isn't good at the deep pass, but so what? Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson are better than Brady at it, and they are very good QBs with championships on their resumes, but would you take either of them son the Pars right now over Brady? Much less over Brady in his prime? I sure wouldn't.

- The importance of arm strength is very overrated in my opinion. Yes it is important, but I'll take brain strength over arm strength every time (up to point, of course, I don't want a Chad Pennington any more than I want a Jay Cutler). Having a cannon arm is great but if it comes with Favre-esque lousy decisionmaking or Bledsoe-esque slow decisionmaking then you're not going to see a lot of championships.

- Finally, aside from covering basketball, Ryan had always been a jackass in general and moronic in particular on football. He doesn't get the game, knows nothing about the Xs and Os, knows nothing about the college game, etc. Bob's entire worldview has always put entertaining himself and cultivating his relationships with national sportswriters and broadcasters (i.e., the Lupicas, Costas', and Bermans) above the time and effort needed to study the game itself and the sport. Bob has said on numerous occasions that his favorite experience covering football was attending Parcells' press conferences (no I don't have a link to this, but I heard him say it repeatedly on talk radio and that Sunday night program with Lobel, etc.). That tells me all I need to know about his mentality and credibility when it comes to his opinions about anything related to football. Being on staff with McDonough and (have to include him in spite of my repulsion to do so) Borges, as well as guys who came later like Holley, Smith, and Bedard, meant old Bob could mail it in on football without clowning himself. F him with his garbage opinions about Brady, they are about as credible as Jim Irsay's views on law and order. He is to be held in contempt and ignored by those of us who actually like and respect the game and the sport, unlike him.

Whilst throwing deep is not Brady's greatest strength it is certainly not due to arm strength, but any issues in that department are more due to accuracy. One reason why it often appears worse is because we do not have consistently legit deep threat wr's that can track down the ball in the air.

There is a reason why short slow wr's are not deep threats. If we had a legitimate every down deep threat people would be shocked at how much that part of his game would improve.

cardiak said:

I've watched every game of Brady's career he has never been accurate on his deep passes. He lacks the touch to lob them in downfield. When Brady throws down field you know with almost absolute certainty that he is overthrowing his receiver by 1-3 yards. The only receiver that was able to cover up this problem was Moss who could successfully run down his overthrows.

This doesn't mean Brady is a bad QB, he has an absolute bullet of a pass and pinpoint accuracy on intermediate and short routes, but don't fool yourself, he has never been even remotely decent at his deep pass outside of Moss. It's not the receivers he is lacking it's the way he throws deep he doesn't lob them downfield he bullets them out there at a low trajectory which doesn't give his recievers time to run down his over throws.

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You're 100% wrong. Several years ago, Brady didn't put a lot of air under the long ball, but that has changed dramatically. Ever since Moss left, Brady puts a MASSIVE arc, with serious hang time, on most of his long balls. The balls are thrown early with the intent of giving ONLY the receiver a chance at the ball if they get through the coverage without breaking stride. Without a speed demon who can beat coverage unmolested, these balls have a low rate of being caught. That said, they have a much lower chance of being picked, can be thrown early cuz of the long hang time and can still draw the PI. If Brady ever gets a legit deep threat who can beat coverage, watch out...

Big Brady a deep threat who is 6'5 or bigger then we can have this discussion about his 'arm' or 'long ball accuracy'

this is what happened.

1. after moss left, brady started to overthrow WRs a bit. and he was coming from a devastating knee injury. so his touch wasn't there. injury + no moss = so-so results

2. but it seemed like brady kept overthrowing WRs. IMO, this is a result of brady's pet peeve - throwing INTs

3. and then there were alot of underthrows - yes, brady reads patfans.com and all those critics saying 'what's up with overthrows?' so he put a conscious effort not to over throw deep balls. results? underthrows

Jackson 2 said:

The same guy who before the conference championship games said that regardless of who the AFC rep might be Seattle would be a double digit SB favorite. His intense dislike of all things Patriot is well-documented.

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In other words, someone whose horrendously wrong opinions deserve no time.

brady's arm isn't what it used to be for sure. remember that missed throw to moss in our SB loss? that desperation long bomb after 59 min of beatdown traveled 76-77 yards in the air. (it was angled, somebody did the approx calculation). throwing over 70 yard in the NFL game is very rare.

in 07 i believe brady had top 5 arm strength.


right now, i would say brady is in the middle pack. brady can still out laser most dudes under 25 yarder, but i doubt brady can air out 70 yard bomb anymore.

but we all know arm strength is overrated.

wolverinejoe80 said:

brady's arm isn't what it used to be for sure. remember that missed throw to moss in our SB loss? that desperation long bomb after 59 min of beatdown traveled 76-77 yards in the air. (it was angled, somebody did the approx calculation). throwing over 70 yard in the NFL game is very rare.

in 07 i believe brady had top 5 arm strength.


right now, i would say brady is in the middle pack. brady can still out laser most dudes under 25 yarder, but i doubt brady can air out 70 yard bomb anymore.

but we all know arm strength is overrated.

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Why do you think he has less arm strength now than 2007?

Interesting topic, I will wait for Mark Brunell to cry about it on national tv too make up my mind.

Equating arm strength with the deep ball is something I'd expect from a kid in junior high. The deep ball is all about touch and anticipation. Jeff Blake had an arm that was mediocre at best, and he threw an absolutely beautiful deep ball to Pickens & Scott back in the 90s. Heck, just watch this past preseason. Jimmy G's arm is clearly not as strong as Tom's, and yet he was dropping deep balls into the proverbial bucket. The whole "Manning has a better arm than Brady" myth was born from this type of silliness.

I haven't read all the comments in this thread so if I'm repeating what others have said, sorry. When Brady has had deep ball threats he did just fine...ie Moss. Maybe what makes Brady so great is that he is able to use his arm and brain simultaneously. When your team has wide receivers that are under 5'11" covered by corners 6'2" and over, use them for their strengths...more short accurate passes are better than trying to mindlessly chuck it downfield and pray for a catch or PI ie. Flacco. Give TB12 a Fitzgerald or a Megatron and he'd probably be a top 5 deep ball passer...then all the talking heads would just say "he's a mindless deep ball passer with no declining accuracy and zip behind the short ball, that's why he's just chucking them up there."

Bobsyouruncle said:

Why do you think he has less arm strength now than 2007?

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age, of course. just look at those pitchers who used to throw 97mph in their 20's but gradually loses and bottoms out at 91-93mph by mid 30's.