Schefter: Has Heard Speculation Colts might have deflated the footballs

AndyJohnson said:

You seem to think that Jerry Rice should feel Mark Brunell and Cris Carter who played about 30 years in the league combined are morons who know nothing

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I would wager good money all three are not very intelligent when it comes to anything other than football.

I would bet even more money all three slept through their high school physics & chemistry classes, which were over 35 years ago for them, and that they have never thought about the relation between pressure & temperature since.

So, no, I do not consider any of the three to have a valuable opinion on what little information we had to that point. I guess it's not their fault that arguably even less intelligent people stuck microphone's in their faces.

OhExaulted1 said:

I can't believe there's a poll that was taken that included every single American on this subject. That's a story in itself! Can you post a link?

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Funny

flasox27 said:

What surprises me most about this thread is how defensive some posters have become about the indefensible witch hunt the Goodell's NFL and his mediots have created inconjuction with the colts hierarchy and yet worry that the crap may backfire on the colts if they are subjected to a miniscule amount of the same scrutiny. What is even more unbelievable. is that these posters claim to be Pats fans.

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It's probably the same ones who were saying they don't even want us to win the SB when this came out. How do you claim to be a fan and day shot like that.

BradyManny said:

Yes.

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That explains a lot

BradyManny said:

I would wager good money all three are not very intelligent when it comes to anything other than football.

I would bet even more money all three slept through their high school physics & chemistry classes, which were over 35 years ago for them, and that they have never thought about the relation between pressure & temperature since.

So, no, I do not consider any of the three to have a valuable opinion on what little information we had to that point. I guess it's not their fault that arguably even less intelligent people stuck microphone's in their faces.

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I think that Jerry Rice or other former players would not share your opinion, that they are no notihngs which was my point.

You just said you didn't put television personalities on a pedestal. Now you're holding up Jerry Rice, Mark Brunnel and Jerome Bettis as authorities on whatever subject because they're on television.

Palm Beach Pats Fan said:

No, any sane person would think that they were not doing the right test.

The right test would be if they did not know that they were going to be asked about inflation levels of footballs and you asked them to catch a football at 10 AM, another at 11 AM, another at noon, then another at 1PM.

Then the next day you quiz them...


one of those four footballs had a bad lace and ask them if they can identify which one it was...

one of those four footballs was newer and ask them if they can identify which one it was...

one of those four footballs was at a lower pressure and ask them if they can identify which one it was...

Sure any QB and just about any person can compare two footballs side by side and say which is newer, which has better lacing, and which has more pressure.

Quite obviously, though, such a test has very little relevance to the AFCCG and the under-pressurized intercepted football, as it compared to second half footballs, and Tom Brady's thoughts when asked about it a day later.

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It was science, it was Sportscenter.
Are you saying that you really think that a guy like Jerry Rice would have or should have responded to hearing the Patriots deflated footballs, 11 of 12 were 2 psi under, by saying "Lets do an experiment"?

My point has nothing to do with the quality of the test, it is about public perception.
There is no doubt that at that stage most people believe the commentators and thought BB or Brady or both were lying.
This is only important with respect to the claim that Jerry Rice is a moron because he didn't decide the whole thing is a fraud when Brunnell squeezed a ball, which is the point I was responding to.

PATS16N0 said:

You just said you didn't put television personalities on a pedestal. Now you're holding up Jerry Rice, Mark Brunnel and Jerome Bettis as authorities on whatever subject because they're on television.

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Seriously you need to read more carefully.
I never said nothing like that.
I haven't mentioned Bettis.
I only named Brunell in response to what Rice was likely to believe and I said Rice's comments were humorous.
Hard to have a discussion when you don't pay attention to my half of it.

PATS16N0 said:

You just said you didn't put television personalities on a pedestal. Now you're holding up Jerry Rice, Mark Brunnel and Jerome Bettis as authorities on whatever subject because they're on television.

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If you were referring to this:

I think that Jerry Rice or other former players would not share your opinion, that they are no notihngs which was my point.

Read more carefully. Jerry Rice and former players do not consider other former players morons who cannot be believed.

PATS16N0 said:

He's trying to hold on to his legacy and the legacy of his team by smearing teams doing superior things to his own, in a harder era to do it, purely for his own narcissism. Sounds like a weasel to me.

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Personally, I thought Rice was a narcissist before any of this. Didn't like him then, don't like him now. Someone can be a Richard and still be talented.

NSPF said:

Do you have to ask? Given the information that was out there at the time, it was FAR more likely that the balls were underinflated due to either procedural error by the referees, the weather, or some combination of the two. People that knew all the facts failed to draw this conclusion, I know this because I argued with them extensively. Once everything that could be said about it was, I told them "You're going to find out soon enough that the Patriots are innocent, and when you do, you have no choice but to take it as evidence that you are an idiot." And guess what? It turns out I was right.

That was part of what made me realize I needed to start putting my money where my mouth is and keeping track of my predictions. Anyone can claim in retrospect that they "knew all along" (which is exactly what I'm doing here). My friend introduced me to this site, which seems pretty cool: http://predictionbook.com/

Anyway, the point is Jerry Rice is stupid, but he's not any stupider than 90% of people, and he, like most, probably did legitimately think the Patriots were guilty.

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I think you are overlooking that you sought out knowledge to understand (because you had an interest as a Patsfan) and most people wouldnt do that, they will trust the media report because they don't care one way or the other very much

Silver Blue&Red said:

Personally, I thought Rice was a narcissist before any of this. Didn't like him then, don't like him now. Someone can be a Richard and still be talented.

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I concur. Think he still isn't rankled over Moss getting the TD record and subsequently being called the "most talented receiver ever"? Remember how bemoaned and whined about how he did it in a strike shortened year?


How about the fact of our run of success over the last 14 years makes the mention of his precious 49er dynasty as now being slotted as the second best dynasty. Anyone remember who he played for in January of 2002? To say his objectivity when it relates to NE may be somewhat skewed would be a severe understatement.

OhExaulted1 said:

Remember how bemoaned and whined about how he did it in a strike shortened year?

.

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Against replacement players

AndyJohnson said:

I think you are overlooking that you sought out knowledge to understand (because you had an interest as a Patsfan) and most people wouldnt do that, they will trust the media report because they don't care one way or the other very much

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These guys have been around the block, the idea that they are incapable of understanding that an unsourced report is not gospel seems unlikely. They must have seen hundreds that turned out wrong.

They also didn't seem to feel the need to repeat Rappaport's report as truth so its pretty amazing that in the last couple of weeks they suddenly figured out that unsourced rumors may not be true. (In between Mort and Rappaport)

AndyJohnson said:

I guess we have a different viewpoint of the circumstances. In mine, the Patriots were already convicted in the media, due to leaks of inaccurate information. Rice just commented on the wrong information he received. Happens all the time, happens on this board.
I just don't buy into the idea that Jerry Rice is required to perform an investigation before commenting on something based upon all of the rumors. That puts him in the same category as everyone else.

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I don't think people are saying Rice is required to do an investigation. But it's pretty normal to hear a rumor or unsourced report and think "Interesting, maybe that happenned, hopefully we get some facts." Everyone, especially players know that unsourced reports are not always right, and they are not gospel. So to go from "this might have happenned" to:



Is not something people do. I'm not buying for one second that Rice doesn't know that. To go from there's a rumor that cheating happenned, to saying unequivocally that cheating happenned is unusual, and I think universally accepted as*holish behavior. He seems to be pretty selective about which rumors he decides are definitely true.

Neither Rice nor anyone else is required to make their minds up one way or another after hearing a rumor. You're acting like he either had to say "it's true" or "its not true." That's just not how people operate, given two possibilities and little evidence they don't just latch onto one idea and State it as fact. If people don't investigate they just leave open the possibility that either could be true. Even if they think one is more likely it's not a normal thing to just say one thing happenned without knowing for sure.

In the above statement he is deciding the Patriots cheated based on what Mort said in an unsourced rumor. No parsing words, saying "if", or saying he believes it's likely. I think he deserves criticism, and we haven't even got into the more damning issue of him being a hypocrite.

AndyJohnson said:

The real culprit here is the people who leaked the incorrect information, and the NFL for allowing it, and not making a statement to correct it.

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It's a problem, I agree but it doesn't obsolve people of employing reason. Especially when people have shown that they exercise such judgement over other rumors, but this particular one they believe whole heartedly. Sounds more like a lack of integrity, than lack of intelligence.

Why do we give a crap about Jerry Rice's opinion?

AQPE said:

Why do we give a crap about Jerry Rice's opinion?

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I will tell you why. Because when the player widely considered the GOAT in the sport speaks up about huge scandal (created by the media) about a team everyone hates it gives rumors more credibility than they should get. Plus, his comments reeked of hypocrisy which made it into this big **** storm, giving Pats fans some great ammo for retaliation, while getting other jerk off players involved who also have dirty hands.

So, that is why we give a crap about Jerry Rice's opinion.

AQPE said:

Why do we give a crap about Jerry Rice's opinion?

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Because like it or not Jerry Rice's dumb*** opinion carries a lot of weight throughout most of the sports media world and public opinion in general. And while it's alright to not mind and take a 'hater's gonna hate' approach to everything, personally, I can't. I take it personally when MY team is having its reputation dragged through the ****ing mud due to baseless speculation. I CARE what people think about the Patriots. I WANT people to like us because our teams DESERVES to be liked. It DESERVES to be respected. But because of a bunch irresponsible reporting by media hacks spreading outright slander and lies OUR teams reputation is tarnished. And that sucks.

Here's the thing, 3 weeks ago I didn't know what the truth was. The first Kravtiz and Mort reports had me seriously doubting the integrity of the team. There was a short time where I questioned whether I was rooting for a bunch of cheater. This is what pisses me off the most. These media POSs, with their blatant lies and distortions of the truth, had me doubting MY believed team in which I have invested so much of my life into. When the truth started to come out in both scientific experiments and more accurate reports from sources I felt relief and then anger at those who made me feel so bad about my team in the first place. This is why I will accept nothing less than complete vindication for our team on all the allegations of cheating leveled against us. Only then will our reputation be at least partly salvaged from this mess. And this is why I cannot stand when ANY so called expert claims that the Pats did something wrong. That's why I mind what Jerry Rice thinks. Thankfully Kraft seems to feel the same way.

John Clayton, who holds a vote for the HOF BTW, just wrote an article citing the "Rams walkthrough was taped in 2001" as evidence of Patriot "cheating". I used to have some respect for his skill anyway, I don't anymore. He's a ****in' mongoloid. Period. YOU believe this bullshyt being spewed by these former player morons. I'll stick to Marshall Faulk is a near braindead, ill educated, stupefying idiot.

Bobsyouruncle said:

I don't understand what your post has to do with mine. I wasn't defending Rice, I was criticizing him.

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Because I quoted the wrong post. Whoops

I don't think,it's asking too much for anyone being asked a question to at a minimum think it through. If you are going to call people out as "cheaters" you should as least have the facts to back it up.

Or you could just say "f.cking Colts, deflating the Patriots game ball, what a bunch of scumbag cheaters, if Goodell had an ounce of integrity he would fire Kensil immediately and disband the Colts."