Contracts to deal with

Brady6 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
if the Pats cut Amendola, which is entirely possible, I expect he'll sign a 3/9 deal with someone else, very possibly Denver.

We gave LaFell 3 years/$9M last offseason coming off a far more productive season, as a more talented, well rounded and younger player.

Brady6 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Not to my eyes.

A receiver can only catch that which is thrown to him. If a healthy Welker had been on the team in 2013, Edelman wouldn't have gotten near 1000 yards. Similarly, if Amendola hadn't gotten hurt, I honestly - HONESTLY - believe that his numbers and Edelman's would have reversed that year (they have the same catch rate, YPC, etc.).

I'm looking at that list as a GM, honestly. There is very little below #6 that I find intriguing. Royal and Austin are two that might come in equal to my eyes to Amendola, though I've never been big on Royal.

I know Amendola can make the clutch play. I know he'll die on the field to win. Depending on the circumstance of my team - what kind of receiver am I looking for - the only ones I put ahead of him on my wish list are 1-6.

Amendola's lack of production has more to do with the emergence of JE, who in my mind has ABSOLUTELY become a pro-bowl receiver, than anything else. Amendola and LaFell are different types of receivers with different roles to play and there is a lot of overlap between Amendola and Edelman. Similar to Manny Sanders' breakout as soon as he got out from under Brown's shadow.

I hope he stays. If JE gets hurt, have DA walk onto the field makes me feel a helluva lot better than anything else we have. I was hoping Boyce would step up, but if he is, there's no indication of it from BB at this point.

I've already agreed that I doubt the Pats will pay him 4.5 for next year - unless they have plans to greatly expand his role. I think Deus's post is spot on.

And again, below Crabtree, there's really no one on that list I'd jump up and down over if I heard he was coming to the Pats.

Amendola played 2 games without Edelman he had 87 yards in the 2 games combined, so that's 696 yards over 16 games. Look at the list again, consider production, age, talent, Amendola is not in the top 10 bro. I'm not even hating on him I am just trying to set a realistic expectation for where he would rank and how much he should be paid.

Amendola in my opinion is a 2 year/$3M player with incentives to max out at $4M. Keep in mind Julien Edelman only received $4.25M over 4 years last offseason coming off a 1000 yard season, you are suggesting an older Amendola coming off a 200 yard season would get $3M. Doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

Brady6 said:
Yeah but 1594 of them came on kick/punt returns and that was largely due to him returning 50 kicks and 40 punts, he was 23rd in KR average and 12th in PR average that season so it was hardly an emasculate performance.

For the record this is what I mean by posters polarizing the performance of Danny Amendola. The fact of the matter is that 2300 yards is nothing to write home about for a player who returned 90 kicks and had 85 catches.

Tell it to Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin, and dismiss it as you will, the guy brings value to a team. Like I said, if cut, I absolutely think he gets 3/9 somewhere else.

Yards from Scrimmage includes all yards from scrimmage...it's an actual stat, you know?

And yes, once more, there is no one on your list below Crabtree, I'd rather have, for a lot of reasons.

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Amendola had over 2300 yards from scrimmage in 2010. Sorry if that bothers you, but the numbers aren't that hard to find.

No he did not. Danny Amendola had 770 yards from scrimmage in 2010. Yards from scrimmage and all purpose yards are two separate categories.

Who cares what Danny Amendola did in 2010? In 2011, Danny Amendola only played one game. In 2012, Danny Amendola only recorded 122 punt return yards and 16 kick return yards.

Brady6 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Tell it to Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin, and dismiss it as you will, the guy brings value to a team. Like I said, if cut, I absolutely think he gets 3/9 somewhere else.

Yards from Scrimmage includes all yards from scrimmage...it's an actual stat, you know?

And yes, once more, there is no one on your list below Crabtree, I'd rather have, for a lot of reasons.

You like Amendola I get it, he seems like a cool guy, good teammate, good looking, blue collar local guy. I can totally understand why you like him but as we always say the NFL is a business and this is a nearly 30 year old slot receiver who has an extensive injury history and coming of a season where he caught just 27 balls for 200 yards. No matter what you are looking at putting him #7 on that list doesn't line up you have to know that.

Bruins29 · Feb 10, 2015

Brady6 said:
good looking, .

Bruins29 · Feb 10, 2015

This is what Danny thinks of this thread.

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
Tell it to Darren Sproles or Percy Harvin, and dismiss it as you will, the guy brings value to a team. Like I said, if cut, I absolutely think he gets 3/9 somewhere else.

Yards from Scrimmage includes all yards from scrimmage...it's an actual stat, you know?

And yes, once more, there is no one on your list below Crabtree, I'd rather have, for a lot of reasons.

Last I looked, Julian Edelman is the New England Patriots primary punt returner.

As for Danny Amendola, the New England Patriots can pay LeGarrette Blount to return kickoffs and run over the Indianapolis Colts defense at a fraction of Danny Amendola's current salary.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

Brady6 said:
Are we just ignoring production when making our determinations? Eddie Royal had 3 times the catches, 4 times the yards, and 7 times the touchdowns last season. #18 on the list Miles Austin had 47 catches for 568 yards last season and is around the same age. I think you need to look at the list again and be more objective, #7 is way off..

Why bother asking for opinions - and that is all this is - if you're just going to dismiss them?

Look at the list yourself. Austin is a battered player with a lot of wear and tear - he'd be one of maybe 3 on that list below Crabtree I'd consider beside Amendola.

7. Kenny Britt - head case. Ton of talent, but...
8. Cecil Shorts - Yeah, okay, I do like this kid. He isn't coming cheap.
9. Eddie Royal - Not a fan, never was. He's still good, but in the same category at best
10. Nate Washington - will be 32 in August. Nope.
11. Wes Welker - He's dead, Jim! I'd take him as a back-up, but he really should retire.
12. Hakeem Nicks - Meh. Is he a reclamation project? I don't know.
13. Reggie Wayne - He's done.
14. Denarius Moore - he's that tease who never was.
15. Leonard Hankerson - Maybe there's potential.
16. Dwayne Harris - See above.
17. Vincent Brown - See above.
18. Miles Austin - I don't think he's got much left. Always liked him, but he's battered.
19. Jerrel Jernigan - See above.
20. Brandon Lloyd - No thanks.
21. Brad Smith - You're kidding, right?
22. Santana Moss - No thanks.
23. Jason Avant - Meh
24. Marcus Easley - Why?
25. Derek Hagan - Why?
26. Robert Meachem - Done.
27. Greg Salas - Been there, done that.
28. Dane Sanzenbacher - Why?
29. Kevin Ogletree - Why?
30. Darrius Heyward-Bey - a real shame, but no.

So I see 3 (Shorts, Royal and Austin) akin to DA, one (Britt) with a ton of talent but not worth the trouble, and a bunch of guys coming off rookie contracts where their total production about matches Dobson's single year.

Like I said, 7th.

So go ahead, tell me who you'd rather have on that list below Crabtree.

Jimke · Feb 10, 2015

What is a fact is that Amendola is our third best receiver. All the rest on the roster are not NFL quality.
We all know that the Patriots have major problems drafting wide receivers and signing over the hill
free agents. Hopefully, Amendola will agree to a meaningful restructure so we can have a viable third wide
receiver.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Last I looked, Julian Edelman is the New England Patriots primary punt returner.

As for Danny Amendola, the New England Patriots can pay LeGarrette Blount to return kickoffs and run over the Indianapolis Colts defense at a fraction of Danny Amendola's current salary.

You're arguing with yourself. I didn't say he was worth that to the Pats. I'll let the Pats and DA decide that. To another team, probably Denver, I think he'll get 3/9.

ps. If that opinion upsets you for some reason, seek help.

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

Jimke said:
What is a fact is that Amendola is our third best receiver. All the rest on the roster are not NFL quality.
We all know that the Patriots have major problems drafting wide receivers and signing over the hill
free agents. Hopefully, Amendola will agree to a meaningful restructure so we can have a viable third wide
receiver.

Aaron Dobson is not NFL quality? The same Aaron Dobson that had more yards from scrimmage as a rookie wide receiver (519) than Dan Amendola this past season (200).

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

50-yard-line said:
You're arguing with yourself. I didn't say he was worth that to the Pats. I'll let the Pats and DA decide that. To another team, probably Denver, I think he'll get 3/9.

ps. If that opinion upsets you for some reason, seek help.

I'm not arguing with myself.

Danny Amendola's role with the St Louis Rams is different than Danny Amendola's role with the New England Patriots.

As for Danny Amendola, yards from scrimmage:
2012 - 674
2013 - 634
2014 - 200

Please, argue against these diminishing returns.

Deus Irae · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Aaron Dobson is not NFL quality?

Like Kenbrell Thompkins? Being forced into the lineup as a rookie, due to injuries, doesn't magically mean he's a legit starter. And, while I think saying he's not NFL quality is a bridge too far, his numbers in his rookie season don't disprove the assertion.

Again, just ask Kenbrell Thompkins how this all works, as he was down to a whopping 15 catches this season.

50-yard-line · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
I'm not arguing with myself.

Danny Amendola's role with the St Louis Rams is different than Danny Amendola's role with the New England Patriots.

As for Danny Amendola, yards from scrimmage:
2012 - 674
2013 - 634
2014 - 200

Please, argue against these diminishing returns.

Why would I? I watched 2013 and saw a guy coming out of preseason get hurt in week 1, still go above and beyond to win the game, then play hurt for the whole year and still match JE in Completion % and YPC.

This year, I was surprised by his greatly diminished role, then heard he had off-season surgery and wasn't healthy till halfway through, then saw him help the Pats win several several important games. I'm not arguing that the Pats should keep him at his current salary - haven't done that at all.

If they do keep him at that, I would expect they have much bigger plans for him next year. If they restructure - GREAT! If they cut him, he'll get a decent mid-level deal somewhere else.

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Like Kenbrell Thompkins? Being forced into the lineup as a rookie, due to injuries, doesn't magically mean he's a legit starter. And, while I think saying he's not NFL quality is a bridge too far, his numbers in his rookie season don't disprove the assertion.

Again, just ask Kenbrell Thompkins how this all works, as he was down to a whopping 15 catches this season.

Talk about a Strawman.

Not once did I bring up Kenbrell Thompkins.

If you want to give up on Aaron Dobson, that's your prerogative. I have a little more hope for the former 2013 59th Overall Draft Pick for the New England Patriots.

Deus Irae · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Talk about a Strawman.

Not once did I bring up Kenbrell Thompkins.

If you want to give up on Aaron Dobson, that's your prerogative. I have a little more hope for the former 2013 59th Overall Draft Pick for the New England Patriots.

Thompkins isn't a strawman. Thompkins is a relevant comparative example, regardless of what happens to both Thompkins and Dobson in the future. If you can't figure out why Thompkins is not a strawman, and is relevant, you have no business discussing any of this.

Fencer · Feb 10, 2015

Amendola and Dobson are both guys who've looked good to the eye test, have occasionally produced, have had unquestionable injuries, and also have lacked production for reasons that we can't conclusively determine from among the choices lingering injuries/lack of toughness/suckitude. Neither should be thought of as clearly above the other in value.

Ivan · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
The signing bonus remains with the original team.

Yep, spaced that out

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Thompkins isn't a strawman. Thompkins is a relevant comparative example, regardless of what happens to both Thompkins and Dobson in the future. If you can't figure out why Thompkins is not a strawman, and is relevant, you have no business discussing any of this.

No it isn't.

One wide receiver was a second round draft pick and the other was an undrafted free agent. With your argument, the New England Patriots should not even bother drafting wide receivers.

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