Contracts to deal with

JMC00 · Feb 9, 2015

Bruins29 said:
Name one poster who says he is worth his current contract.

Ya. Pretty much everyone that is saying they should keep him are saying it should be under a new deal

Tell you what though, Larry Fitz hits the market I'll drive Amendola to the airport if it means getting him.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 9, 2015

"

Fencer said:
It's simple. The term "new money" is used to refer to newly-incurred obligations to pay a guy (if you keep him on your roster rather than trading or cutting him) -- for example salary, roster bonus, etc. You are trying to "correct" me and say it means something else.

If Amendola were cut tomorrow, there would be a certain total cap hit over future seasons. If he stays with the team next year, there will be an additional $4.5 million. Thus, there is $4.5 million of new money in that deal. The nuances of which years the cap is affected, even if interesting for other purposes, are completely irrelevant to measuring "new money". That's what I'm being condescending to you about.

Further, it happens to be my opinion that those nuances are NOT very interesting for any purpose. If the Pats awkwardly pull a couple million dollars of cap hit forward, they can always restructure some other deal in balance to push a similar amount of cap hit back, should they have that need.

The guarantee is for the total remaining bonus money of $3.6M and the $4.5M would be his "new money" cost if retained (I misread Miguel's chart....you are correct). The "savings" that Miguel was mentioning was the total cap cost of $5.7M minus the guarantee of $3.6M for a cap "gain" of $2.1M.

$5.7M total cost if playing in 2015....if cut in 2016, guarantee of $1.2M in 2016....guarantee of $1.2 in 2017 = $8.1M versus if cut today $3.6M. $4.5 new money difference for playing in 2015.

mgteich · Feb 9, 2015

Bruins29 said:
Name one poster who says he is worth his current contract.

You mean that there is no one who thinks he's worth keeping because keeping him only costs us $2.1M and Amendola is worth $2.1M? No one?

Bruins29 · Feb 9, 2015

mgteich said:
You mean that there is no one who thinks he's worth keeping because keeping him only cost us $2.1M? No one?

I have not seen anyone suggest they keep without restructure. Granted as shown even if released the cap hit math isnt good.

But the point was to address a fallacy of him being pimped to the point of overrated, not whether he at current value with cap he is worth releasing.

mgteich · Feb 9, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
How about this....provide some actual evidence to support your position instead of these childish responses. I have cited Miguel twice now.....quoting him word for word in the first instance and providing a link to his work in the second. What have you provided?

I will gladly accept that I am wrong if you can provide evidence to the contrary. Are you willing to do the same?

Another possibility is that we are talking about two different things. I will gladly attempt to understand what you are trying to communicate and accept some of the responsibility if I didn't understand.

Since we've done it for you several times, you need to do this exercise in the next few days for yourself. The rest of us understand.

OPTION 1 - KEEP AMENDOLA FOR 2015 and cut him on March 15, 2016
2015 cap cost and 2015 cash cost
2016 cap cost and 2016 cash cost
2017 cap cost and 2017 cash cost
total cap cost and total cash cost

OPTION 2 - CUT AMENDOLA on March 15, 2015
2015 cap cost and 2015 cash cost
2016 cap cost and 2016 cash cost
2017 cap cost and 2017 cash cost
total cap cost and total cash cost

CLUE 1 - If Amendola is cut on March 15, 2015, there will be ZERO cap cost and ZERO cash cost after 2015.
==========

OPTION 1
total cap cost $8.1M ($5.7M in 2015, $2.4M in 2016)
total cash cost $4.5M (all in 2015)

OPTION 2
total cap cost $3.6M (all in 2015)
total cash cost $0.0M

mgteich · Feb 9, 2015

Bruins29 said:
I have not seen anyone suggest they keep without restructure. Granted as shown even if released the cap hit math isnt good.

But the point was to address a fallacy of him being pimped to the point of overrated, not whether he at current value with cap he is worth releasing.

fair enough

You are correct. No one thinks that Amendola is worth the $4.5M it would cost for his 2015 services. And, almost everyone is on board with him staying a reduced salary.

Bruins29 · Feb 9, 2015

mgteich said:
fair enough

You are correct. No one thinks that Amendola is worth the $4.5M it would cost for his 2015 services. And, almost everyone is on board with him staying a reduced salary.

If DA continued at current performance and the team with current chemistry I would not have a problem with him at current salary.

mgteich · Feb 9, 2015

Bruins29 said:
If DA continued at current performance and the team with current chemistry I would not have a problem with him at current salary.

The way to do what you suggest is to have a change in contract where much of the money is moved to NLTBE incentives that would reached if Amendola continued in his current level of play.

BTW, I do think that there are those who still wouldn't pay Amendola $3.5M, $4.5M and $5.5M of new money over the next three years, even if much pif it were incentives.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 9, 2015

mgteich said:
Since we've done it for you several times, you need to do this exercise in the next few days for yourself. The rest of us understand.

I already answered in post #162. But thanks for all that work.

Fencer · Feb 10, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
The guarantee is for the total remaining bonus money of $3.6M and the $4.5M would be his "new money" cost if retained (I misread Miguel's chart....you are correct). The "savings" that Miguel was mentioning was the total cap cost of $5.7M minus the guarantee of $3.6M for a cap "gain" of $2.1M.

$5.7M total cost if playing in 2015....if cut in 2016, guarantee of $1.2M in 2016....guarantee of $1.2 in 2017 = $8.1M versus if cut today $3.6M. $4.5 new money difference for playing in 2015.

We have bingo!!

I'm glad that's finally cleared up.

patman52 · Feb 10, 2015

My thoughts are:

Revis for 4 years & 50 mill of new money - SB 10 mill year 1: 7mill, Cap hit 14.5 mill
McCourty 5 years 35mill 15 mill SB and year 1: 2mill and 5mill cap hit.

This keeps Revis and McCourty and leaves 5.5mill savings from Revis present 25mill cap hit.

Solder, same as McCourty cap hit 5 mill - Savings 2.5mill

Vince $ need to be reduced. Keep his contract the same but remove the 4.5 roster bonus- now he may very well leave, but the transition needs to take place sometime and this year we are up against the cap
Mayo is the same, he needs to cut his base to 5mill and remove other bonuses

Arrington 1.5 mill and Amendola 2 mill both need to take a combined 3.5 mill salary reductions

This moves will give us about 19 mill for Ayers, Branch, Ghost, RFA obligations, draft picks, ps rainy day fund, and a couple of cheap FA

Ivan · Feb 10, 2015

mgteich said:
The way to do what you suggest is to have a change in contract where much of the money is moved to NLTBE incentives that would reached if Amendola continued in his current level of play.

BTW, I do think that there are those who still wouldn't pay Amendola $3.5M, $4.5M and $5.5M of new money over the next three years, even if much pif it were incentives.

Not sure if you were responding to me but I agree. I think he's worth it if it is incentive based but many would disagree.

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

Aiken - veteran minimum or see ya
Amendola - massive pay cut or see ya
Ayers - walks (most likely tests market anyways)
Branch - veteran minimum or see ya
Casillas - veteran minimum or see ya
Connolly - walks (33 years old next season)
Gostkowski - tough one to call
Mayo - needs to take a shave, a $3 million shave
McCourty - priority number one
Ridley - veteran minimum or see ya
Vereen - David Dunn agent
White - veteran minimum or see ya

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...d/4741232/other-dunn-murphy-clients-with-pats

Ivan · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Aiken - veteran minimum or see ya
Amendola - massive pay cut or see ya
Ayers - walks (most likely tests market anyways)
Branch - veteran minimum or see ya
Casillas - veteran minimum or see ya
Connolly - walks (33 years old next season)
Gostkowski - tough one to call
Mayo - needs to take a shave, a $3 million shave
McCourty - priority number one
Ridley - veteran minimum or see ya
Vereen - David Dunn agent
White - veteran minimum or see ya

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...d/4741232/other-dunn-murphy-clients-with-pats

I don't see the Dunn connection as an issue. They just signed Bequette again and stood by Dennard through his troubles. Most teams have falling out with agents over deals and still do business with them. Vereen clearly wants to stay and that will definitely help negotiations. If they are close to real market value he stays.

Ivan · Feb 10, 2015

We will know where they stand on Wilfork very soon. His 4 million roster bonus is due March 10th and once it's paid he is locked in, no way they pay it then look to restructure.

patsfaninpa · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Aiken - veteran minimum or see ya
Amendola - massive pay cut or see ya
Ayers - walks (most likely tests market anyways)
Branch - veteran minimum or see ya
Casillas - veteran minimum or see ya
Connolly - walks (33 years old next season)
Gostkowski - tough one to call
Mayo - needs to take a shave, a $3 million shave
McCourty - priority number one
Ridley - veteran minimum or see ya
Vereen - David Dunn agent
White - veteran minimum or see ya

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...d/4741232/other-dunn-murphy-clients-with-pats

Branch and Casillas are worth more than vet minimum. Big dt's don't grow on trees. I'd go 2-2.5 for 2 years with him. We can't go into next year with only 3 experienced lb's again. I'd try to keep Casillas. Maybe, 1.5m

Jimke · Feb 10, 2015

patman52 said:
My thoughts are:

Revis for 4 years & 50 mill of new money - SB 10 mill year 1: 7mill, Cap hit 14.5 mill
McCourty 5 years 35mill 15 mill SB and year 1: 2mill and 5mill cap hit.

This keeps Revis and McCourty and leaves 5.5mill savings from Revis present 25mill cap hit.

Solder, same as McCourty cap hit 5 mill - Savings 2.5mill

Vince $ need to be reduced. Keep his contract the same but remove the 4.5 roster bonus- now he may very well leave, but the transition needs to take place sometime and this year we are up against the cap
Mayo is the same, he needs to cut his base to 5mill and remove other bonuses

Arrington 1.5 mill and Amendola 2 mill both need to take a combined 3.5 mill salary reductions

This moves will give us about 19 mill for Ayers, Branch, Ghost, RFA obligations, draft picks, ps rainy day fund, and a couple of cheap FA

ATippett56 · Feb 10, 2015

patsfaninpa said:
Branch and Casillas are worth more than vet minimum. Big dt's don't grow on trees. I'd go 2-2.5 for 2 years with him. We can't go into next year with only 3 experienced lb's again. I'd try to keep Casillas. Maybe, 1.5m

The New England Patriots signed veteran defensive lineman Antonio Johnson to a reserve/future contract.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4363/antonio-johnson

Alan Branch can either take a veteran's minimum contract or take a hike.

http://www.patscap.com/2014capinfo.html

On October 29th the New England Patriots signed Alan Branch to an one-year contract with a $855,000 salary. This deal is eligible for the veteran minimum benefit treatment lowering the cap number to $570,000. The Pats are responsible for 9/17ths of his 2014 salary of $570,000 or $301,765. Please note that Branch will be an UFA after this season.

Bruins29 · Feb 10, 2015

ATippett56 said:
Aiken - veteran minimum or see ya
Amendola - massive pay cut or see ya

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...d/4741232/other-dunn-murphy-clients-with-pats

I know you dont care for the guy and have suggested Vet min but you are not going to get anyone decent for the type of deal you are suggesting. If they can get Dobson in there or Boyce great but DA's contributions, ST play, familiarity with the system and ability to fill in for JE should he get injured are worth more than some crappy salary.

Jimke · Feb 10, 2015

patman52 said:
My thoughts are:

Revis for 4 years & 50 mill of new money - SB 10 mill year 1: 7mill, Cap hit 14.5 mill
McCourty 5 years 35mill 15 mill SB and year 1: 2mill and 5mill cap hit.

This keeps Revis and McCourty and leaves 5.5mill savings from Revis present 25mill cap hit.

Solder, same as McCourty cap hit 5 mill - Savings 2.5mill

Vince $ need to be reduced. Keep his contract the same but remove the 4.5 roster bonus- now he may very well leave, but the transition needs to take place sometime and this year we are up against the cap
Mayo is the same, he needs to cut his base to 5mill and remove other bonuses

Arrington 1.5 mill and Amendola 2 mill both need to take a combined 3.5 mill salary reductions

This moves will give us about 19 mill for Ayers, Branch, Ghost, RFA obligations, draft picks, ps rainy day fund, and a couple of cheap FA

The Pats love to defer. As your post indicates, there is lots of work to do and all interconnected.
I hope the Patriots do not wait until 3 PM March 10th to get started.

Contracts to deal with

Pro Bowl Player

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

PatsFans.com Veteran

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Veteran

PatsFans.com Veteran

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Veteran

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Pro Bowl Player

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Hall of Fame Poster

Pro Bowl Player

Hall of Fame Poster

Hall of Fame Poster

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

Similar threads