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Bold Statement: 2014 receiving corps is the best in franchise history


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Thank you for at least bringing some more data here. All good. But the 2007 team had a running game so that made for less of a passing game. It also looks like you are only comparing the postseason performance of the two squads. Which would be a different discussion.

WW is pretty clutch. HE had a much tougher catch to make in 2011 than JE did. He made a ton more clutch catches than JE has for the pats. Nothing wrong with JE and his better versatility (he is more versatile than moss too) but as posted earlier he has a while to go before he is in the same discussions as WW for overall career.

Regardless, My comment about WW being the GOAT slot receiver stands. I am waiting for someone to tell me who was better in their career.

Also, if no Tyree catch and butler dosent come up with that huge play off a huge Seattle blunder are we even having this conversation?

The existence of the running game in 2007 is exactly why 2014 receiving corps is so special. A balanced attack should, theoretically, be much harder to defend. Yet, despite being so one dimensional in 2014, the offensive output in the postseason was much more impressive than in 2007. Against two very good defenses in Seattle and Baltimore. Seattle is probably the best defense since the 2000 Ravens.

Why shouldn't postseason performance be given more weight? Every team plays the regular season for a shot to make the playoffs. You build your team to succeed in the postseason. The ultimate goal is to win a championship, and you do that by performing well in January and February.
 
Vereen was huge too. 11 catches which goes to show you how we needed a huge game from the RBs or we lose.
 
The existence of the running game in 2007 is exactly why 2014 receiving corps is so special. A balanced attack should, theoretically, be much harder to defend. Yet, despite being so one dimensional in 2014, the offensive output in the postseason was much more impressive than in 2007. Against two very good defenses in Seattle and Baltimore. Seattle is probably the best defense since the 2000 Ravens.

Why shouldn't postseason performance be given more weight? Every team plays the regular season for a shot to make the playoffs. You build your team to succeed in the postseason. The ultimate goal is to win a championship, and you do that by performing well in January and February.

I am not saying it shouldnt but it sounds like you are just asking who got it done when it counted. Which is fine but that is like saying Eli manning was a better QB than TB because he got it done and beat Brady

I dont buy the 2014 was better than the record breaking 2007 guys because of one fluke play.

I asked someone recently who was a better QB - Flacco or Mariono. I was not given an answer.
 
All due respect to Moss, a healthy 2012 offense probably would have been a lot better than 2007.

We set records in 2012, too (3rd down conversions and 3rd down conversion rates off the top of my head), and that was with Hernandez and Gronk barely on the field together. Hernandez went down with the high ankle sprain against Arizona in like week 2, then as soon as he got back, Gronk broke his arm.

I feel like 2012 would of been utter offensive domination if we had remained healthy, because even with key injuries, it was basically utter domination anyway. Plus that hurry up, no huddle rushing attack was devastating and had everybody else in the league basically saying "Holy crap" We were running plays like every 23 seconds or something ridiculous.
 
Come on guy.
07 and it's not even close.

If Tyree doesn't make ridiculous catch and Seattle runs it in from the 1..would you even ask this question? Keep in mind brady did the exact same thing in that sb..just didn't get the final stop.

Zooming in on playoff opponents is so misleading. Baltimores secondary was trash, and indy was just road kill...they couldn't stop the run or do anything on offense for the 3rd straight time vs us. In the superbowl, we faced a decimated secondary and yes, brady put in a g.o.a.t performance.

And obviously, besides postseason, there's nothing to discuss here. Most Ppg, brady and moss td records, mvp of league, etc in 2007..none of that this year
 
Actually, I take back the opening sentence of my previous statement based on one thing:

The 2009 rule changes altered the league. What the 2007 offense did when the NFL was still the NFL was just ridiculous. I really would of liked to have seen what 2012 did without the injuries, though. The two TE + the no huddle rush was just awesome.
 
I am not saying it shouldnt but it sounds like you are just asking who got it done when it counted. Which is fine but that is like saying Eli manning was a better QB than TB because he got it done and beat Brady

I dont buy the 2014 was better than the record breaking 2007 guys because of one fluke play.

I asked someone recently who was a better QB - Flacco or Mariono. I was not given an answer.

Eli still wouldn't be better than Brady, because Brady's entire playoff resume is just vastly superior.

I think people put way too much stock in regular season stats and records. Consider that a large number of those games are played against weak opponents/non-playoff teams. It's the same story with the 2013 Denver Broncos. They shattered records in the regular season, and were awful in the postseason - especially in the SB.

It's why Peyton Manning shouldn't be in the discussion of "greatest of all-time."

BTW - fluky plays have nothing to do with it. The offensive outputs for each year are independent of those plays, which happened with the defense on the field.
 
Eli still wouldn't be better than Brady, because Brady's entire playoff resume is just vastly superior.

I think people put way too much stock in regular season stats and records. Consider that a large number of those games are played against weak opponents/non-playoff teams. It's the same story with the 2013 Denver Broncos. They shattered records in the regular season, and were awful in the postseason - especially in the SB.

It's why Peyton Manning shouldn't be in the discussion of "greatest of all-time."

BTW - fluky plays have nothing to do with it. The offensive outputs for each year are independent of those plays, which happened with the defense on the field.

Moss 2007 > Gronk 2014
WWW 2007 > Edelman 2014
Stallworth 2007 > Amendola 2014
Gaffney 2007 > All other TEs and WRs 2014
Faulk 2007 > Vereen 2014 (Hell, go ahead and call this even if you want)

That's not even adding Ben Watson to the mix

Your arguments in this thread have sucked. And that's being kind about it. You made a lousy thread, and then you made even worse follow up posts. Own it and move on. It is what it is.
 
Moss 2007 > Gronk 2014
WWW 2007 > Edelman 2014
Stallworth 2007 > Amendola 2014
Gaffney 2007 > All other TEs and WRs 2014
Faulk 2007 > Vereen 2014 (Hell, go ahead and call this even if you want)

That's not even adding Ben Watson to the mix

Your arguments in this thread have sucked. And that's being kind about it. You made a lousy thread, and then you made even worse follow up posts. Own it and move on. It is what it is.

So our entire 2007 offense was better than the 2014 offense, who beat a better defense in the Superbowl than the 2007 offense lost to? Sounds legit.

I give 2007 a lot of praise for what it did before the 2009 rule changes, but it was a regular season offense. What 2014 did in the playoffs, starting with the Ravens, then Indy, then Seattle, was far and away superior to 2007, not to mention it ended with a Lombardi.

Maybe it was a bad Belichick game plan, or maybe it was a lot more gimmicky and Peytonesque which is why it eventually got punched in its mouth.

The 2014 team > 2007.
 
I think it's close enough that the premise of this thread isn't stupid. But I do think the premise is incorrect.

Moss 2007 > Gronk 2014 It's actually pretty close. Either could be shut down by outstanding coverage; neither was stoppable otherwise.
WWW 2007 > Edelman 2014 Agreed. But again it's close, because of Welker's one consistent weakness, namely catch radius.
Stallworth 2007 > Amendola 2014. Agreed.
Gaffney 2007 > All other TEs and WRs 2014. Agreed. It's not even close.
Faulk 2007 > Vereen 2014 (Hell, go ahead and call this even if you want) I forget whether Faulk's decline had started by then. Peak Faulk > Peak Vereen.

That's not even adding Ben Watson to the mix
 
2007 team was the greatest show on turf I have ever witnessed as a Pats fan. You had your dink and donk offense, passing to WFW, Stallworth, Watson, with the occasion bombs thrown to Gaffney and Moss. If the defense wasn't decimated by injuries, if the offensive line came to play, if Tom Brady wasn't injured, and if Lady Luck wasn't sleeping with the Giants, this topic would not have been made. Get a grip man..all of your criteria favors the 2007 team.

Anyways, go Pats
 
I guess the off-season has officially kicked in.
 
Moss was great. Other than that, Edelman > Welker, and any other 2014 WR/TE > any 2007 WR/TE.

Edelman was not better than 2007 Welker. Can we please drop this absurd fantasy?

Here is the truth. 2007 Moss was better than 2014 Gronk. 2007 Wes was better than 2014 Edelman. 2014 LaFell was better than 2007 Stallworth/Gaffney (though not by much). From there, it is mostly kibbles and bits that don't tip the scale either way, but with a slant toward 2014 (Amendola/Vereen being better than Watson/Faulk).

If you want to say 2014 is deeper, I wouldn't object, but when you are worse at the top two, "better" is a hard case to make.
 
Edelman was not better than 2007 Welker. Can we please drop this absurd fantasy?
Exactly! The only people who think this are insecure children and ungrateful homers who have a serious memory problem.
 
Amazing to think we had a running game in 2007 with Maroney.
Can someone please refresh me on who was on the 2012 record breaking squad and why they were so good?
 
Here is a better question. Which set of receivers would you take in the Superbowl, against a historically great defense?
 
2007 and not even close.

Best deep threat WR in history in Moss.
Best slot receiver in the game at the time in Welker.
Another deep threat opposite Moss in Stallworth.
And a reliable possession receiver in Gaffney.
Plus Kevin Faulk was probably the best receiving RB at that time.

If our OL didn't **** the bed our offense would have lit up that Giants defense in the SB much like it did in week 17.
 
People labelling Edelman a slot receiver are doing him a huge disservice, he does much more than work the slot - and THAT is the reason why he's better then Welker, he's more versatile.
 
So our entire 2007 offense was better than the 2014 offense, who beat a better defense in the Superbowl than the 2007 offense lost to? Sounds legit.

I give 2007 a lot of praise for what it did before the 2009 rule changes, but it was a regular season offense. What 2014 did in the playoffs, starting with the Ravens, then Indy, then Seattle, was far and away superior to 2007, not to mention it ended with a Lombardi.

Maybe it was a bad Belichick game plan, or maybe it was a lot more gimmicky and Peytonesque which is why it eventually got punched in its mouth.

The 2014 team > 2007.

We choked against the Gintz twice, or the dice rolled against us, or BB just got too misty eyed walking through the meadowlands for NFL films and couldn't bring himself to beat Coughlin (joke there)... whatever you want to say.

This offense is better because it won. Is Jo Jo Lafell better than Gronk? Is Edelman better than WWW at his prime? Is this defense worse than the 2011 defense? I don't think any of these statements are true in a vacuum.

But in the 2008 SB we scored fewer points, we allowed fewer points, and we lost the game.

It wasn't what happened in almost the last second, it was about responding to it. Now, again, small sample size. Maybe at that level, it's all just rolls of the dice. But I think the SB 49 crew said "Okay, now we'll make the dice roll our way" (yes that's the defense, but I'm trying to get across the team's character...)

Is the character of that offense - of that full team - the equivalent or better than 2014's team? No. It could not, ultimately, cope with adversity and with their opponent playing out of their heads better than they ever had before. It let down in the biggest game of the year, and, if they won, of history (if you think about it.)

That offense couldn't crack 20 points against a team that backed into the playoffs after showing every sign of not wanting to be there.

That Brady couldn't do what this Brady could do, admit there was not a big shirt with an "S" on it under his jersey. This year's Brady didn't curl into a manly fetal position, he took whatever precious time his O-line could give him and lived with the result. That year's Brady, and that year's O-line, was disrupted and stayed that way... and they were geared more to intermediate-to-long than to short-to-intermediate.

Dare I say it, they were dominant when it worked, but it was less versatile in the crunch, and had hardly been tested before.

Of course this team was also more balanced, with a credible run threat to keep the defense honest.

Okay long story short, where is Randy Moss's ring? WWW's? They're great ones, but they were part of team(s) that let down on the biggest stage. No fixing that.
 
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