Contracts to deal with

Ivan said:

The way people around here are acting the Patriots won't be able to field a team next year.

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No has said or implied that. We only have a few contracts to deal with: Revis, McCourty, Gostkowski, Vereen, Wilfork, Mayo and Amednola. This is pretty par for the course.

Ivan said:

Which is exactly what people said about Wilfork, and then he did just that.

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Yes, but I'm not sure that Wilfork could walk, never mind perform, when he signed his contract. Amendola is healthy and coming off a solid playoffs.

RI Patriots fan said:

Try taking Cap 101...it might help.

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It is mildly amusing for you to continue to embarrass yourself by suggesting that Fencer should take Cap 101. He is a graduate student in cap accounting by now. There is an article out there on cap accounting. Perhaps we need to find the refernce for you.

You apparently think that the patriots are fielding a team in 2016 and all that matters in the 2015 cap.

It will cost the patriots $4.5M for his 2015 services. It really is that simple.

You are correct that it will only cost us $2.1M of extra cap 2015 cap room compared with cutting him. So, lets say we keep him for the season and cut him at this time next year. According to you to the cost is $2.1M of 2015 cap money. That is TRUE. There would ALSO be a $2.4M additional cost in 2016 or 2016 and 2017 for the unamortized amount of the bonuses previously paid to Amendola.

mgteich said:

The patriots COULD get it done. Who here thinks that the patriots will pay Vereen the $3.5M - $4M that someone else would likely pay?

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I do. Belichick loves versatile players and Vereen is as versatile as they come. 3-11 with 7 guaranteed or 4-14 with 10 guaranteed would be a good deal for both sides IMO.

mgteich said:

Yes, but I'm not sure that Wilfork could walk, never mind perform, when he signed his contract. Amendola is healthy and coming off a solid playoffs.

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You think someone will pay Amendola what the Patriots are?

I'm a big Amendola supporter but even I don't see that happening.

Ivan said:

I do. Belichick loves versatile players and Vereen is as versatile as they come. 3-11 with 7 guaranteed or 4-14 with 10 guaranteed would be a good deal for both sides IMO.

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mgteich said:

It is mildly amusing for you to continue to embarrass yourself by suggesting that Fencer should take Cap 101. He is a graduate student in cap accounting by now. There is an article out there on cap accounting. Perhaps we need to find the refernce for you.

You apparently think that the patriots are fielding a team in 2016 and all that matters in the 2015 cap.

It will cost the patriots $4.5M for his 2015 services. It really is that simple.

You are correct that it will only cost us $2.1M of extra cap 2015 cap room compared with cutting him. So, lets say we keep him for the season and cut him at this time next year. According to you to the cost is $2.1M of 2015 cap money. That is TRUE. There would ALSO be a $2.4M additional cost in 2016 or 2016 and 2017 for the unamortized amount of the bonuses previously paid to Amendola.

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Amendola has proven over the past month that he can fit it with Tom Brady and the Patriot's offense.
Boyce, Dobson, Krause, Orton, Tyms, unknown UFA, unknown draftee, and unknown UDFA have not
and are not likely to fit in.
It remains to be seen how much Amendola likes to play with Brady, Edelman, and LaFell. Edelman
wanted to be with the Patriots enough to wait them out. The question is whether Amendola has a Ty Law or a Ted Bruschi mentality. Every red cent or a fair contract for both parties.

He is very close with Jules so that could help.

Jimke said:

Amendola has proven over the past month that he can fit it with Tom Brady and the Patriot's offense.
Boyce, Dobson, Krause, Orton, Tyms, unknown UFA, unknown draftee, and unknown UDFA have not
and are not likely to fit in.
It remains to be seen how much Amendola likes to play with Brady, Edelman, and LaFell. Edelman
wanted to be with the Patriots enough to wait them out. The question is whether Amendola has a Ty Law or a Ted Bruschi mentality. Every red cent or a fair contract for both parties.

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No one on the patriots has a Bruschi mentality. The only one that comes close is Brady.

Yes, Edelman did decide to test free agency for a month after Amendola was signed.

Bruins29 said:

He is very close with Jules so that could help.

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Edelman's friendship could. The open question is how much the team is willing to pay, including NLTBE incentives. If there are enough incentives (which do affect the 2015 cap and which come into play only after there is production), then I think that a deal could be struck. I just hope that the team is willing to pay enough, as they were to Wilfork last year.

Miguel has given lots of possibilities. The best to me is the one where the 2015 cap cost is the same as cutting him, and he receives significant incentives so that he can earn close to his current contract if he performs as well as expected when the current contract was signed.

RI Patriots fan said:

Try taking Cap 101...it might help.

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You need to follow your own advice.

Jimke said:

Amendola has proven over the past month that he can fit it with Tom Brady and the Patriot's offense.
Boyce, Dobson, Krause, Orton, Tyms, unknown UFA, unknown draftee, and unknown UDFA have not
and are not likely to fit in.
It remains to be seen how much Amendola likes to play with Brady, Edelman, and LaFell. Edelman
wanted to be with the Patriots enough to wait them out. The question is whether Amendola has a Ty Law or a Ted Bruschi mentality. Every red cent or a fair contract for both parties.

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When Amendola hit the market a couple of years ago he was going to be a fairly hot commodity and that is why the Patriots gave him the deal they have him. Which was generous for his production to that point, and his value went down significantly since they got him. It got a boost at the end of the season but that still isn't anywhere near enough to warrant what he gets paid. I think Amendola wants to be here and would restructure near upon incentives, and I think the Patriots really like him as a player and will create a structured deal they both like.

NFL defenses now spend most of their time in sub packages. Not coincidentally, NFL offenses spend most of their time in 3+ WR packages, especially if one counts borderline WR/TEs as WRs for the purpose of the conversation.

The Pats were early leaders in this trend in 2007. Now they're laggards, spending more time in classic or power sets than other teams. That said, when things get really tight, balance goes out the window and they're in some kind of a spread.

Amendola's value to the Pats has a lot to do with their expectations about running 3-receiver/Gronk/RB sets in the future, as opposed to having Hooman/6th OL/Develin in the field. That, in turn, probably depends in part on their confidence in the OL.

It's complicated ...

mgteich said:

It is mildly amusing for you to continue to embarrass yourself by suggesting that Fencer should take Cap 101. He is a graduate student in cap accounting by now. There is an article out there on cap accounting. Perhaps we need to find the refernce for you.

You apparently think that the patriots are fielding a team in 2016 and all that matters in the 2015 cap.

It will cost the patriots $4.5M for his 2015 services. It really is that simple.

You are correct that it will only cost us $2.1M of extra cap 2015 cap room compared with cutting him. So, lets say we keep him for the season and cut him at this time next year. According to you to the cost is $2.1M of 2015 cap money. That is TRUE. There would ALSO be a $2.4M additional cost in 2016 or 2016 and 2017 for the unamortized amount of the bonuses previously paid to Amendola.

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That's funny because you had never even done a cap forecast into 2016 and when I showed you the actual numbers in 2016, you finally saw the light.

That $2.4 million in 2016 is guaranteed money($3.6M total both years). Guaranteed...as in we have to pay regardless if he is cut in 2015 or 2016. Guaranteed money is not "new money".....we still have to pay it. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.patscap.com/2016patscap.html

Jimke said:

Amendola has proven over the past month that he can fit it with Tom Brady and the Patriot's offense.
Boyce, Dobson, Krause, Orton, Tyms, unknown UFA, unknown draftee, and unknown UDFA have not
and are not likely to fit in.
It remains to be seen how much Amendola likes to play with Brady, Edelman, and LaFell. Edelman
wanted to be with the Patriots enough to wait them out. The question is whether Amendola has a Ty Law or a Ted Bruschi mentality. Every red cent or a fair contract for both parties.

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I guess I am not getting the argument unless you think the Patriots are going to ask him to take vet minimum. I don't, I think they want to keep him but don't want to pay him the full deal without more production. I think Amendola knows he has underproduced and will take a restructured deal to stay with the team, but I wouldn't expect him to take a huge pay cut without the opportunity to make most of it back.

Fencer said:

You need to follow your own advice.

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How about this....provide some actual evidence to support your position instead of these childish responses. I have cited Miguel twice now.....quoting him word for word in the first instance and providing a link to his work in the second. What have you provided?

I will gladly accept that I am wrong if you can provide evidence to the contrary. Are you willing to do the same?

Another possibility is that we are talking about two different things. I will gladly attempt to understand what you are trying to communicate and accept some of the responsibility if I didn't understand.

Fencer said:

NFL defenses now spend most of their time in sub packages. Not coincidentally, NFL offenses spend most of their time in 3+ WR packages, especially if one counts borderline WR/TEs as WRs for the purpose of the conversation.

The Pats were early leaders in this trend in 2007. Now they're laggards, spending more time in classic or power sets than other teams. That said, when things get really tight, balance goes out the window and they're in some kind of a spread.

Amendola's value to the Pats has a lot to do with their expectations about running 3-receiver/Gronk/RB sets in the future, as opposed to having Hooman/6th OL/Develin in the field. That, in turn, probably depends in part on their confidence in the OL.

It's complicated ...

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It actually make sense because teams are going small in sub packages so the Patriots go big in response. That the Patriots can still throw effectively out of their big packages makes them that much more difficult to defend.

mgteich said:

Edelman's friendship could.

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That and who he is dating right now. She co-hosts Curran's CSNNE show.

RI Patriots fan said:

How about this....provide some actual evidence to support your position instead of these childish responses. I have cited Miguel twice now.....quoting him word for word in the first instance and providing a link to his work in the second. What have you provided?

I will gladly accept that I am wrong if you can provide evidence to the contrary. Are you willing to do the same?

Another possibility is that we are talking about two different things. I will gladly attempt to understand what you are trying to communicate and accept some of the responsibility if I didn't understand.

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It's simple. The term "new money" is used to refer to newly-incurred obligations to pay a guy (if you keep him on your roster rather than trading or cutting him) -- for example salary, roster bonus, etc. You are trying to "correct" me and say it means something else.

If Amendola were cut tomorrow, there would be a certain total cap hit over future seasons. If he stays with the team next year, there will be an additional $4.5 million. Thus, there is $4.5 million of new money in that deal. The nuances of which years the cap is affected, even if interesting for other purposes, are completely irrelevant to measuring "new money". That's what I'm being condescending to you about.

Further, it happens to be my opinion that those nuances are NOT very interesting for any purpose. If the Pats awkwardly pull a couple million dollars of cap hit forward, they can always restructure some other deal in balance to push a similar amount of cap hit back, should they have that need.

People here are really overrating amendola. He needs to restructure.

Patriots1364life said:

People here are really overrating amendola. He needs to restructure.

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Name one poster who says he is worth his current contract.