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Schefter: Has Heard Speculation Colts might have deflated the footballs


Do they have editorial control over Rapaport?
If you are saying what comes out of NFL owned entities is ensdorsed by the NFL, then I guess the Patriots are cheaters and liars since NFLN has said so, and no one has refuted that.

I understand you are trying to draw a distinction here, but you would have to show me a single time that the NFL came out and denied something an nfl.com reported said.
As far as I know the people involved in the investigation are not Rapaports editors.

Once again, you are not drawing the fundamental difference between an NFL.com employee's OPINION and a reportage of data.

They do not squash opinons (or at least, they publicly try not to).

However, if one of their employees was publishing known falsehoods about the football measurements, they would not let it stay up.
 
You are referencing OPINIONS espoused by their personnel, not reporting of data by their personnel.

That is a fundamental difference.
I realize that and agree, but these days, more than at anytime in the history of media, have the lines between opinion and facts/data been more blurred.
 
I realize that and agree, but these days, more than at anytime in the history of media, have the lines between opinion and facts/data been more blurred.


Yes, but this isn't general media - - this is IN-HOUSE.

Difference between Shaughnessy getting Brady's height and weight wrong and Paul Perillo getting Brady's height and weight wrong.

The Patriots have no control over Shaughnessy. They can correct Perillo.

The NFL has no reason to release mistaken data that would hurt the Indianapolis Colts.
 
Once again, you are not drawing the fundamental difference between an NFL.com employee's OPINION and a reportage of data.

They do not squash opinons (or at least, they publicly try not to).

However, if one of their employees was publishing known falsehoods about the football measurements, they would not let it stay up.
Here we go again............

If you want to believe that everything written by any nfl.com writer is checked all the way up the ladder, and they will not allow a REPORTER to print WHAT HE WAS TOLD, go ahead.
In that world, these nfl.com reporters could have actually told us what really happened.

You may want to check Rapaports history of being wrong.

You may want to also explain how erroneous reports of Spygate, Bountygate, the Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson issues found their way on to nfl.com.

Whatever. You made a statement so we know that you will post 10,000 responses arguing that only you can be correct.
 
Neither I nor the NFL said the Patriots deflated the balls, just that the pressure was low. Only reporters and commentators have speculated that the Patriots may have deflated the balls. Clearly that's a rumor and no one has even come close to refuting that.

The facts are:

-The Colts leveled a complaint
-The balls WERE low in pressure
-The balls were re-inflated and played with
-The NFL is investigating


Are you denying those are the facts of the situation? It doesn't seem like you're sure what you're trying to say.


EDIT: I was wrong about one thing. I didn't think you had anywhere to go with your line of reasoning, but I didn't consider that instead of admitting you were wrong you could claim the NFL was lying! Masterstroke of denial! Kudos to you!

They said the footballs were underinflated, not that they were low in pressure. They also said that the balls were checked prior to the game and found to be properly inflated.

Couple of issues here. Inflated is a verb, so some action caused an improper inflation level. Pressure is a noun, it's just stating a fact, not implicating any action occurred.

It's like the difference between saying:
The ball was kicked. Or
The ball is red.

If the ball was kicked, then somebody kicked it, even if the subject is not included in the sentence. If the ball is red it's just a statement about the ball that doesn't imply any action.

Furthermore, there's dozens of ways for pressure to change but very few for underinflation. A leak, or a manipulation cause underinflation. But they said in their statement that the balls were fine before the game, and reinflated at halftime remaining at the proper inflation. This only leaves manipulation as a possibility. People interpret the statement that way, because that's the only way to interpret it.

Now maybe you don't find "underinflation" to be a rumor by the NFL. But unless they have some evidence somebody changed the inflation, and I've heard none so far it sounds very much like a rumor. And a rumor that plenty of physicists have clearly proven could not be determined from those pressure levels. In fact it looks quite clearly like they have no idea what "properly inflated" is during a 50 degree game. Unless they believe the rule requires the laws of physics be suspended to maintain an impossible unchanged pressure through all temperatures and conditions. So even the statement that the balls did not have proper pressure is on shaky ground when their rules don't require pressure to be maintained on the field.

Also, even if they did find that the Patriot and Colt balls were at different levels of pressure it remains a possibility that either set could have been manipulated. The NFL has no idea what the pressure should be in those conditions. If they are trying to find the difference why didn't they investigate the Colts. Their statement said they were investigation NE, not Indy. Meaning that one team was being accused, and the other one was not. The implication being they have evidence NE did something wrong. Or as they said "information that suggested that the game balls used by the New England Patriots were not properly inflated to levels required by the playing rules" Unless they come out with it, thus far it looks like a rumor, or a mistake.

Lastly, this is a complete red herring. What does it matter whether the NFL itself started rumors or the media or the fans? It doesn't.
 
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Yes, but this isn't general media - - this is IN-HOUSE.

If Paul Perillo is reporting something that may or may not be wrong about the San Diego Chargers, it is a FAR different situation than if he is is reporting something that may or may not be wrong about the measurements of the Patriots lockerroom.
??? Maybe it's because I'm punch drunk from removing snow, but I'm not following. Could be me.
 
Those facts will need to be carefully described in the Wells report and well-summarized in accompanying press conferences, or else a large number of people will pay no attention whatsoever and will believe whatever their predispositions tell them to believe.

Even that may not even be enough.

The "taping of a Rams Super Bowl practice" false allegation could not have been more clearly refuted than with a front page retraction and on camera interviews with Walsh who confirmed it never happened. Yet it comes up over and over again, even by card-carrying media people, on the supposed list of our past misdeeds.

Only another controversy, such as the Colts getting nailed for staging a setup, would convince a lot of haters otherwise. That's my dream resolution to this, as much of a long shot as it may be. Even if the NFL were convinced that the Colts did it, without them captured on video or without a direct confession, I don't think they'd take the Colts down. They will want it to just go away ASAP and just live with the "we don't know what happened but we have no reason to suspect Patriots wrongdoing" verdict.

Couldn't possibly agree more with this, especially the first paragraph which is a masterpiece. I wish I knew how to post the "we are not worthy" smiley they used to have for posting here.
 
Jd, you are really minimizing the irresponsibility of both the media and the league. Bob Kraft didn't come out to demand an apology over some innocent investigation, he came out swinging because the team, coach, and GOAT QB were seriously maligned and deliberately so. You are acting like they were just doing their jobs and sticking to facts when in truth it was one of the worst smear jobsI have ever seen. The patriots were tried and convicted in the court of public opinion because of leaked rumours and innuendo and in truth no exoneration or apology will ever undo the damage. This was a public lynching and the league and media were responsible.


The NFL didn't start any rumors or give any false information. Sure, someone who works for the NFL could've given a reporter some information, but that's under the table info, that's not information 'from the NFL'. I have no problem with how the NFL handled it. The media is the real culprit.
 
Allow me! :D

Palm Beach Pats Fan -
we-are-not-worthy_ani.gif
 
"No one made any claim that the Patriots did anything...". Are you kidding me? Look, in my opinion you've made some fair points along the way, but that statement is so false, so far over the top and ridiculous as to defy belief. If you really, believe that you're either delusional or been living in the Himalayas for 3 weeks. Or both. Come on.


Granted, a few asshats probably made some unbacked claims, though the majority of the reports I saw the person/entity at least made an effort to say 'if the Patriots did this' before they went ahead with their speculation.

Honestly, I didn't read Kravitz's article. Did he actually claim, unequivocally, that the Patriots deflated the balls, or did the say IF they did, then go ahead and call for their head anyway. Classic reporter trick, say "if this is true", then write the story as if it is true.
 
The NFL didn't start any rumors or give any false information. Sure, someone who works for the NFL could've given a reporter some information, but that's under the table info, that's not information 'from the NFL'. I have no problem with how the NFL handled it. The media is the real culprit.


I thought you stated that the media wasn't being "malicious" in this.
 
The NFL didn't start any rumors or give any false information. Sure, someone who works for the NFL could've given a reporter some information, but that's under the table info, that's not information 'from the NFL'. I have no problem with how the NFL handled it. The media is the real culprit.

The biggest f-up in this entire debacle is NFL employees leaking information to the media, particularly incorrect information. They should be fired for leaking information from an investigation that the league said was not public until complete.
You cannot tell me that these leaks sit well with you, given the accusations that were made against Brady and BB based upon the information leaked.
 
The biggest f-up in this entire debacle is NFL employees leaking information to the media, particularly incorrect information. They should be fired for leaking information from an investigation that the league said was not public until complete.
You cannot tell me that these leaks sit well with you, given the accusations that were made against Brady and BB based upon the information leaked.


What's notable is that the leaks that were hurtful to the Patriots stopped the minute Kraft made his statement upon arrival at the Patriots hotel in Arizona.

3 hours later, the leak to Florio about the ballboy going to the John for only 90 seconds occurred.

Then 6 days later the leak to Rapapport about the new football measurement data occurred.

Kind of a sea change.
 
Go back and read the thread. Bobsyouruncle claimed the Colts started the rumors. I asked 'what rumor?'. You responded with 'the whole story to this point is a rumor'. Which is incorrect. There is factual information that has been provided by the NFL, which is not a rumor.

Are you talking about Irsay tipping off Kravitz on the investigation? That isn't a rumor either, there IS an investigation.

Actually, the Colts deflating balls doesn't even qualify as a rumor. Just idle speculation by people with too much time on their hands.

The Patriots deflating the balls wasn't a rumor, either, again just speculating. No one made any claim that the Patriots did anything, they were just speculating and running with the speculations.

Okay wonderful, you personally don't qualify any of this as a rumor. Cool.

The rest of us do. You done?
 
The biggest f-up in this entire debacle is NFL employees leaking information to the media, particularly incorrect information. They should be fired for leaking information from an investigation that the league said was not public until complete.
You cannot tell me that these leaks sit well with you, given the accusations that were made against Brady and BB based upon the information leaked.


I agree with that. Those kind of leaks are grounds for termination. I'm sure they don't know who leaked it, but I hope they're taking measures to avoid these kind of leaks. There's a lot of buddy-buddy stuff that goes on in the sports community, so it's probably tough to eliminate these things altogether.

Was Mort's source confirmed to be with the NFL, or is it unverified? I'm sure more than a few non-NFL employees knew details of this situation. I don't think it had to be an NFL source.
 
Granted, a few asshats probably made some unbacked claims, though the majority of the reports I saw the person/entity at least made an effort to say 'if the Patriots did this' before they went ahead with their speculation.

"If" has been employed as a passive aggressive cloak to wildly speculate.

Yes, Cris Carter did use the word "if" when he condemned the Patriots to eternal damnation in a 3 minute tirade during the SB Postgame Show.

Watch this sewage flow and tell me how using the word "if" is good journalism.



"If" is a get out of jail card.
 
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The NFL didn't start any rumors or give any false information. Sure, someone who works for the NFL could've given a reporter some information, but that's under the table info, that's not information 'from the NFL'. I have no problem with how the NFL handled it. The media is the real culprit.

You have no problem with selective leaks to make a franchise look guilty?
 
They were guilty before any of these "heros" starting using the word "if"
 
What's notable is that the leaks that were hurtful to the Patriots stopped the minute Kraft made his statement upon arrival at the Patriots hotel in Arizona.

3 hours later, the leak to Florio about the ballboy going to the John for only 90 seconds occurred.

Then 6 days later the leak to Rapapport about the new football measurement data occurred.

Kind of a sea change.

So your argument is that the league knowingly leaked incorrect and damaging information about the Patriots, then Bob Kraft got mad, so they decided to leak information that would cause a hysteria because a ball boy was alone with the balls, setting out upon a nation of mediots timing how fast they could deflate footballs. (Again, an option would be to not leak this information and make it a part of the final report, as they had promised to do)
So then in response to this, after a week of the Patriots being crucified in the press over a lie released to Mortensen,. they decided to wait 6 more days and then leak a report that conflicts with the Mortensen one, since I guess, you know, they were so worried about Kraft being mad they hurried up and did it in 6 days.

And your evidence that Rapaport is correct is that he works for the league that just did what I described, and of course they wouldn't let him write it if it were wrong.
Wanna buy a bridge?
 
I agree with that. Those kind of leaks are grounds for termination. I'm sure they don't know who leaked it, but I hope they're taking measures to avoid these kind of leaks. There's a lot of buddy-buddy stuff that goes on in the sports community, so it's probably tough to eliminate these things altogether.

Was Mort's source confirmed to be with the NFL, or is it unverified? I'm sure more than a few non-NFL employees knew details of this situation. I don't think it had to be an NFL source.

Of course they knew who it was.
Mort reported his source as someone involved in the investigation. That is code for KENSIL.
 


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