Tom Brady's arm ???

Jackson 2 · Feb 9, 2015

RayClay said:
Ryan is still trying to get an exclusive interview with Jim Loscutoff .

LOL, and Loscy is undoubtedly still ducking Ryan.

SalemPats · Feb 9, 2015

The deep ball (over 20 yards) is important, but and overblown stat. It's all about moving the chains. The best deep ball is Rodgers and he completed 53.2% of these throws, about only completed 26. Which is what, 2 completed deep passes a game. Tom completed about 17 deep throws. If you consider the fact that we didn't have a deep threat, i think he did his job as good as anyone.

Example: In 2009, Drew Brees finished with the 10th-most Deep Pass attempts (63; Philip Rivers and Peyton Manning tied with 73 at the top), but his 1206 yards, 13 touchdowns, and 58.7 Accuracy Percentage on deep passes all led the league.

Sample article: Three Years of Deep Passing

Past Deep Passing leaders (by Deep Accuracy Percentage):
2007: Tom Brady (NE) 50.7% on 73 attempts
2008: Kurt Warner (ARZ) 58.7% on 46 attempts
2009: Drew Brees (NO) 58.7% on 63 attempts
2010: Vince Young (TEN) 54.3% on 35 attempts
2011: Aaron Rodgers (GB) 60.7% on 61 attempts
2012: Colin Kaepernick (SF) 60.6% on 33 attempts
2013: Case Keenum (HOU) 53.1% on 32 attempts

JMC00 · Feb 9, 2015

robertweathers said:
It mostly comes down to the talent at WR.

Montana had incredible touch and a very good arm early/middle part of his career. He also had very good deep threats in Freddie Solomon and John Taylor. I would go on to say that Jerry Rice was also a quality deep threat.

Ya and most of his receiver's hands were covered in stickum.

Kdo5 · Feb 9, 2015

Brady actually still has pretty solid arm strength. He can still heave it but for whatever reason he struggles to hit receivers deep, even when they might be open. Several of them are over throws. Bob Ryan was definitely exaggerating there.

ALP · Feb 9, 2015

cardiak said:
I've watched every game of Brady's career he has never been accurate on his deep passes. He lacks the touch to lob them in downfield. When Brady throws down field you know with almost absolute certainty that he is overthrowing his receiver by 1-3 yards. The only receiver that was able to cover up this problem was Moss who could successfully run down his overthrows.

This doesn't mean Brady is a bad QB, he has an absolute bullet of a pass and pinpoint accuracy on intermediate and short routes, but don't fool yourself, he has never been even remotely decent at his deep pass outside of Moss. It's not the receivers he is lacking it's the way he throws deep he doesn't lob them downfield he bullets them out there at a low trajectory which doesn't give his recievers time to run down his over throws.

Are you reading what you are typing?

Tell me, other than moss, what deep threat WR has brady had in his whole career?

It's not the Moss was "covering up" Brady's deep ball probs, it's that Moss IS a deep threat, and it worked...it doesn't work with other guys because they are not

You bring in ANY deep threat WR here and it will work...

Deus Irae · Feb 9, 2015

I've defended Brady on the deep ball for years. Suddenly, though, everyone's a defender because Ryan (mostly) was basically repeating the arguments so many, likely including some of the very same people who are now acting so offended by Ryan's comments, have used on this site?

Good comedy.

Joker · Feb 9, 2015

It sucks we have to sit through this stiff's Brady's tissue paper arm and get dragged through playoffs and Super Bowls. Why can't WE get a Cam Newton or Michael Vick? Where's our Kaepernik? I think we should all boycott this team until they DO SOMETHING!!! Good God, I can't TAKE IT anymore!

Bobsyouruncle · Feb 9, 2015

Short passes require arm strength, those outside throws are not going to stand up to NFL speed if they don't have zip. That's where we saw Manning having the most trouble.

I think if you ran Brady through some arm strengthometer he'd be in the top 50% in the NFL. That pass to Amendola was a rocket.

From watching over the years I can't remember any QB losing strength like Manning, I think injuries are his issue more than age. Even guys like Favre, Vick, and Cunningham who were known for arm strength had it through their whole career right til the end. People get slower with age, but often they get stronger going into their late 30's as well. It would not surprise me if Brady has more zip on his ball today than 10 years ago.

strngplyr · Feb 9, 2015

You know, I personally believe that Brady has a top 10, maybe top 5 STRONGEST arm in the NFL today, his arm strength has absolutely nothing to do with his deep ball placement, that just isn't Tom's strong suit. He can throw the fast ball with anyone, though, and he never struggles getting the ball deep, it's just not the best touch on it. He usually overthrows his receivers deep probably trying to make sure only his guy or nobody can get it being overcautious.

Bottom 10% of QB's would mean that about 29 QB's have stronger arms than him only counting starters or more like 60 counting backups.

That's just a bad statement.

Tom's arm is far from dead.

You don't overthrow receivers 50+ yards downfield with a weak arm.

Ivan · Feb 9, 2015

Observer said:
Who is bob Ryan and why is his opinion important?

Deus Irae said:
I've defended Brady on the deep ball for years. Suddenly, though, everyone's a defender because Ryan (mostly) was basically repeating the arguments so many, likely including some of the very same people who are now acting so offended by Ryan's comments, have used on this site?

Good comedy.

"This team is a culmination of all of Belichick's mistakes." Deus Irae

Great comedy.

Steve102 · Feb 9, 2015

For the life of me, I do not understand the lamenting of a deep threat on this team. There was no deep threat here in '01, '03, or '04. Randy Moss, while super exciting to watch, did not bring us a fourth ring. For my money, give me a d!nk and dunk offense that chews up yards and clock.

TinhWoodhead · Feb 9, 2015

Bradys arm strength is fine. Even with underinflated balls, he's still overthrowing them.

JJDChE · Feb 9, 2015

We never spend money on a deep threat because Belichick knows Brady can't throw the deep ball.

cardiak · Feb 9, 2015

Pats wide recievers get open frequently downfield. Brady just can't connect with them he throws his deep passes with very little arch which gives it maximum velocity unlike a deep high and arched pass which slows down it's forward speed transferring it downwards and letting receivers catch up to it. The way he throws his long ball takes much more precise accuracy. Watch all the good longball passers throwing to scrubs they toss moonshots not bullets.

Mosses incredible skill speed and height covered for Brady's inaccuracy. Deep passes have never been his strong suit prior to or after Moss and he has proven he doesn't need that part of his game to be a dangerous passing threat. Stop pretending he is lacking weapons, every big tall wide receiver not named moss has been run out of here so fast. Brady makes them worse not better the little guys are his sweat spot for short and intermediate passing which is why we load our team with them every year. It's not an accident that we have have him surrounded by smurfs most of his career as it compliments his pass style.

Bobsyouruncle · Feb 9, 2015

cardiak said:
Pats wide recievers get open frequently downfield. Brady just can't connect with them he throws his deep passes with very little arch which gives it maximum velocity unlike a deep high and arched pass which slows down it's forward speed transferring it downwards and letting receivers catch up to it. The way he throws his long ball takes much more precise accuracy. Watch all the good longball passers throwing to scrubs they toss moonshots not bullets.

Mosses incredible skill speed and height covered for Brady's inaccuracy. Deep passes have never been his strong suit prior to or after Moss and he has proven he doesn't need that part of his game to be a dangerous passing threat. Stop pretending he is lacking weapons, every big tall wide receiver not named moss has been run out of here so fast. Brady makes them worse not better the little guys are his sweat spot for short and intermediate passing which is why we load our team with them every year. It's not an accident that we have have him surrounded by smurfs most of his career as it compliments his pass style.

Can you list all those big tall WRs Brady made look bad that went on to have success?

JJDChE · Feb 9, 2015

He's been overthrowing guys open deep for years. He's not a good long ball thrower. It really doesn't matter that we haven't had good deep ball receivers. The ones we have still get open deep on occasion and much more often than not, Brady misses them.

Of course, none of this means his arm is going. I haven't noticed any drop off whatsoever.

JMC00 · Feb 9, 2015

Bobsyouruncle said:
Can you list all those big tall WRs Brady made look bad that went on to have success?

These people using that argument won't because it hurts their opinion.

Deus Irae · Feb 9, 2015

Steve:Section 102 said:
For the life of me, I do not understand the lamenting of a deep threat on this team. There was no deep threat here in '01, '03, or '04. Randy Moss, while super exciting to watch, did not bring us a fourth ring. For my money, give me a d!nk and dunk offense that chews up yards and clock.

Not having someone who can stretch the field makes it harder to move down the field consistently. Brady makes up for a lot of that, especially during the regular season. Against good defenses, though, it's a huge problem, as we've seen year after year. Brady is forced to throw into tighter windows, the YAC decreases, and the better coverage subjects Brady to more pressures, hits and sacks.

And the "There was no deep threat here in '01, '03, or '04" is one of the lamest red herrings out there. Those defenses were allowing 15-17 ppg, which is more than a field goal less per game than the 2011 SB team, just for one example.

Or, to put it another way:

Given the Patriots preference for varied game plans based upon opponent, you're out of your mind if you think the Patriots wouldn't want a player who can stretch the field in the middle-deep areas.

JJDChE · Feb 9, 2015

JMC00 said:
These people using that argument won't because it hurts their opinion.

Also, it's irrelevant, unless you'd like to argue that no receiver, except Randy Moss, has ever gotten open deep. Brady's had plenty of chances to connect with the guys we've had on deep exchanges, and the results have been below average.

I don't know why, someone said it's because he throws it too low. I think it could be just as much that he doesn't have confidence in the guys out there, or his own throws. Or, he just doesn't want to give the ball away on a bomb. Who knows, but there are other guys in the league who make those kind of throws better than Brady to middling receivers all the time.

Chris Matthews, anyone? Undrafted, never caught a pass in the NFL, WR catching a slew of deep balls against the Pats?

I think at this point we can just accept that Brady isn't going to be a successful deep ball thrower, regardless of the reason.

Steve102 · Feb 9, 2015

Deus Irae said:
Not having someone who can stretch the field makes it harder to move down the field consistently. Brady makes up for a lot of that, especially during the regular season. Against good defenses, though, it's a huge problem, as we've seen year after year. Brady is forced to throw into tighter windows, the YAC decreases, and the better coverage subjects Brady to more pressures, hits and sacks.

And the "There was no deep threat here in '01, '03, or '04" is one of the lamest red herrings out there. Those defenses were allowing 15-17 ppg, which is more than a field goal less per game than the 2011 SB team, just for one example.

Or, to put it another way:

Given the Patriots preference for varied game plans based upon opponent, you're out of your mind if you think the Patriots wouldn't want a player who can stretch the field in the middle-deep areas.

First, I don't think I'm out of my mind, but I've been proven wrong before.

Second, They just beat the best defense in the NFL and defending SB champ by playing dink and dunk. Brady's ability to get the ball out in less than 3 seconds minimized the pass rush. I would go so far as to say if they had gone more short game vs. the Giants in '07, there would be two undefeated teams in NFL history. Deep routes (nine, go's) take longer develop, which exposes the QB to more of the hits you're talking about.

“They’d allowed the fewest big plays of any team all season, and you saw pretty early why you don’t want to go into the Super Bowl throwing up a bunch of posts, a bunch of ‘nine’ routes. [‘Go’ routes.] Richard Sherman picks off the go route every time you throw it. The plan was to exploit other parts of the field—but short parts of the field. Michael Bennett rushes from everywhere. Cliff Avril kills people. They believe in what they do. We countered that by saying, ‘Okay, here’s what we’re pretty good at: Space the field, find the soft spots, be satisfied with the four-yard gain, be happy with the four-yard gain. We were gonna be happy with a two-yard gain.” ~Tom Brady, MMQB

Tom Brady's arm ???

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