PatsFans.com Menu
PatsFans.com - The Hub For New England Patriots Fans

Peter King's August 2014 take, and now


Status
Not open for further replies.
JE is the superior all around receiver. Welker could never juke the paints out of an outside CB the way Edelman did to Simon... TWICE. (Brady missed the first throw)

Wes could have done that easily, Simon isn't good.
 
WW is like Manning the king of regular season stats. When it really mattered, he came up short. IMO both Troy Brown and Edelman are superior
I'm down on WW's drops vs NYG and BAL but if the defense stops NYG in SB 42 he is SB MVP.
 
When I go to TC, aside from the "stars" Julian Edelman always sticks out.. full tilt, full throttle all of the time.. his presence on any of the teams is very noticeable..

His quickness is impressive....

Absolutely my experience a couple of years ago at camp. I'm no expert but I felt Edelman totally stood out in the receiver drills. Crisp, strong and precise. It was an eye-opener.
 
Edelman caught some important passes in Sb champion drive,
Welker droped pass in potentional wining SB champion drive.

And that SB Sound FX, awesome, Edelman king
 
For me the difference is the fact that JE11 comes up big in the big situations. He is clutch like Brady. WW was a coin flip when the pressure was on. Attitude counts for a lot more in this game than people generally credit.
 
For me the difference is the fact that JE11 comes up big in the big situations. He is clutch like Brady. WW was a coin flip when the pressure was on. Attitude counts for a lot more in this game than people generally credit.

That's more dumb luck than anything. In 2007, Wes was dynamite, then in 2008 they missed the playoffs and Wes got hurt in 2009. He wasn't quite the same player in 2010 and by the end of 2011, time had started taking its toll.

Had health/team success aligned better, Welker's playoff resume wouldn't be such a cause for consternation.
 
That's more dumb luck than anything. In 2007, Wes was dynamite, then in 2008 they missed the playoffs and Wes got hurt in 2009. He wasn't quite the same player in 2010 and by the end of 2011, time had started taking its toll.

Had health/team success aligned better, Welker's playoff resume wouldn't be such a cause for consternation.

We will have to agree to disagree. JE11 made his own luck. He was playing injured in that game and he still played out of his mind.

Wes always played amazing right up until you really, really needed him to make the play and then something weird happened. Every. time. I loved Wes but I have to call a spade a spade here. JE always makes the big play right when you need him to.

Call it luck if you like, but I don't see anything lucky about it. I see heart and determination.
 
I love Edelman and think this season is better than what WW had ever done, mainly due to the post-season performance.

The issue for Edelman will be durability. I think WW in the end will have been more durable over his career. I am frankly concerned that Edelman will continue to battle injury woes (as he has in the past), which will ultimately limit his career.

In addition to Edelman, this team needs other receiving targets. It's risk management. Ideally, Edelman receives 5-6 receptions per game--not 10.
 
IMO Edelman and Welker are just different players. Welker was a pure slot receiver, and the best at that. He had incredibly quick feet and ran pristine routes. But he was a genuine smurf (5'8.5") with no speed or leaping ability. Nobody would have dreamed of asking Welker to play defensive back.

Edelman is a tremendous athlete. His straight-line speed is just average, but certainly better than Welker's. And for perspective, here are his other measurables compared to a smaller, lighter "athletic freak" by the name of DeSean Jackson:

D. JACKSON 5'9.5" 169
10-yd split: 1.53
Vertical: 34.5"
Broad jump: 10'02"
Shuttle: 4.19
3-cone: 6.82

J. EDELMAN 5'10.5" 195
10-yd split: 1.52
Vertical: 36.5"
Broad jump: 10'03"
Shuttle: 3.92
3-cone: 6.62

Edelman is the more versatile receiver. He's a better blocker than Welker, a better punt and kickoff returner, and in a pinch a better DB and QB. :) He also has the intangibles teams dream about, and he comes up big in big moments. So I'll take Welker as the clearly superior slot receiver, and Edelman as the superior football player.
 
STRONG OPINION THAT I MAY REGRET BY NOVEMBER

Even after his four-game suspension is up, Brandon Browner is no sure thing at cornerback opposite Revis. Alfonzo Dennard has proven capable in the past, and undrafted rookie Malcolm Butler has opened eyes.
Surprised that King or whoever was ghost writing this piece in Aug called out Butler?
 
Welker and Jules are very different receivers in terms of what they did.

Jules has had 2 good seasons as a receiver since he joined the team in 2009. 92 and 105 receptions. 1 season over 1000 yards. In his defense, he has needed to make himself into a receiver, and has done that impressively. Jules showed his potential in 2009 with Welker out when he caught 6 passes in the Baltimore blowout in 2009. He has 51 receptions in 10 playoff games with 4 TDs with 529 yards (53 yards per game). In 2011, he had no receptions and did kick returns. He averaged about 93 yards per game in the playoff games this year, with 109 yards and a TD in the biggest game of the year.

If there is a knock on Jules, it is his health. 18 games missed in 6 seasons. Hopefully what we see now is what stays, because you cannot contribute from the tub/sidelines.

Welker joined in 2007. He missed 3 games during that period. He had 100 or more receptions every season except for 1, and that year was comparable to Jules this year - his second best year statistically. He had 37 TDs for the Pats (Jules has 14 TDs in his career). He averaged about 110 receptions per year and 1100 yards with the Pats. His 'lousy' postseason numbers? 92 receptions for 686 yards and 4 TDs in 9 games (76 yards per game). He had 11 receptions for 103 yards in the 2007 loss to the Giants (sounds a little like Jules's heroic performance last game, for those claiming he comes up small in big games), averaging 71 yards per game with 2 TDs in the 2007 run. Everyone remembers the non-catch in the 2012 Super Bowl, but forget he caught every other pass thrown his way that game. How many of those were 3rd down conversions, the sort that end drives if missed?

I get it. Jules is on the team now and Welker isn't. Welker is now a shell of what he was, I submit because of all the heavy lifting he did for the Pats in taking shots up the middle while holding onto the ball and getting all the 3rd down conversions he scored over the years. Was Belichick blind 2009 through 2012, and simply overlooked Jules in practice because he had some man crush on Wes, or did he view Welker as the better receiver? Do you honestly believe Belichick was surprised by Jules in 2013, having kept him on the team since 2009?

It is not necessary to exalt one player by stepping on another. Both were Patriots, and the numbers speak for themselves. Anyone re-writing history by believing Welker wasn't a huge part of what got the Pats to the title games and kept them in those games should probably review the ESPN box scores, look at the drive summaries, and count how many third down passes were thrown and caught by him. If you want a larger task, do that for the regular season games and ask what happens if those catches were not made on third down.

Better? I say different but both great. Jules just had a great run, and a slightly better post-season than Welker had in 2007. I love Jules's fight and intensity. The fact he is a converted QB and career Patriot makes him a compelling story. But starting with the basic fact that Jules has contributed 1/3 the TDs Welker contributed to the Pats, the stat representing the goal of any offensive drive, I would say it's a little early to bash that contribution.
 
We will have to agree to disagree. JE11 made his own luck. He was playing injured in that game and he still played out of his mind.

Wes always played amazing right up until you really, really needed him to make the play and then something weird happened. Every. time. I loved Wes but I have to call a spade a spade here. JE always makes the big play right when you need him to.

Call it luck if you like, but I don't see anything lucky about it. I see heart and determination.

You aren't using "luck" in the same way I did. I didn't say that Julian was lucky to perform as he did or that any of Wes' drops were unlucky. I said that Wes was outstanding in the 2007 playoffs and that he almost certainly would have been the same in 2008 and 2009. We just remember Welker as having drop or catch radius issues the entire time, which is largely revisionist history.
 
Rubbish. WW was one of the best jukers ever. The dude broke ankles every Sunday.



I would agree that WW and JE are different receivers. JE is slightly bigger and without question faster but WW was quicker. With that said in this offense they pretty much run the same routes and from a production standpoint, WW is without peer which is why I stack rank him higher than JE.

Again WW did all his "juking" in the slot. Line both guys outside, Welker couldn't carry Edelman's jock.

Edelman plays EVERYWHERE. Welker is just a slot guy.
 
We just remember Welker as having drop or catch radius issues the entire time

No, you are putting words in my mouth and doing me a disservice, good sir.

We remember Wes having drop issues at IMPORTANT times. Not "the entire time", as you seem to be wanting to hear from me. That is absolutely not what I am saying. Wes was amazing most of the time.
 
Edelman is an awesome "replacement" for Welker. He's a solid player, great teammate, lots of intangibles, etc. but he's not as good as Welker was. Maybe he will be, but he's not there. Several have mentioned that Welker in his prime was uncoverable. That's no joke. Brady could have thrown to him on every single play. Welker is a two time 1st team All Pro. Go look back at All Pro history and see how many inside receivers make it as All Pros. Virtually none. There was a stretch where Welker was legitimately being discussed in the 'best WR in the NFL' discussions. He is the only player in NFL history with five 100 reception seasons. He's not a first ballot kind of guy, but he's going to be in the HoF discussion.

Calling JE better, or even as good as, Welker is serious revisionist history.
 
Again WW did all his "juking" in the slot. Line both guys outside, Welker couldn't carry Edelman's jock.

Edelman plays EVERYWHERE. Welker is just a slot guy.


Yup, "just" the best slot guy ever to play the game.
 
Yup, "just" the best slot guy ever to play the game.

Yea hes exactly that, but only that.

Edelman a better all around receiver, and a much, much better punt returner. He's also a SB champ, and a huge reason why we are the champs!
 
Yea hes exactly that, but only that.

Edelman a better all around receiver, and a much, much better punt returner. He's also a SB champ, and a huge reason why we are the champs!


That's great for Edelman, but that doesn't make him a better receiver. If you give NFL GMs the choice between 2014 JE and WW in his prime, every one including BB is taking Welker.
 
That's great for Edelman, but that doesn't make him a better receiver. If you give NFL GMs the choice between 2014 JE and WW in his prime, every one including BB is taking Welker.

Keep telling yourself that. Cuz you know what GM's think right?
 
No, but I've seen them both play and the choice is obvious.

Two time all pro, five time pro-bowler, borderline HoFer or 0-time pro bowler, 0-time all-pro.

It's a pretty laughable comparison. Edelman is clearly the better punt returner, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.


TRANSCRIPT: Eliot Wolf’s Pre-Draft Press Conference 4/18/24
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/18: News and Notes
Wednesday Patriots Notebook 4/17: News and Notes
Tuesday Patriots Notebook 4/16: News and Notes
Monday Patriots Notebook 4/15: News and Notes
Patriots News 4-14, Mock Draft 3.0, Gilmore, Law Rally For Bill 
Potential Patriot: Boston Globe’s Price Talks to Georgia WR McConkey
Friday Patriots Notebook 4/12: News and Notes
Not a First Round Pick? Hoge Doubles Down on Maye
Thursday Patriots Notebook 4/11: News and Notes
Back
Top