Pay Wilfork and Mayo Their Contract Amounts

mgteich · Feb 6, 2015

Wilfork is due $8.5M of new money this year and $6M or so next year.

Mayo is due $6.5M or so this year.

The team could restructure and save $6M in 2015 cap money. This presumes that the team values their play enough to want to pay them this kind of money.
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WILFORK
IMHO, the contract was negotiated last year so that Wilfork would earn $8.5M and $6M if he continued to perform. He has done that. Let's move $3M of 2015 money into 2016 and move forward. Next year, the team can decide on whether Wilfork is worth $6M or not. Wilfork needs to agree to moving the money, but this in no way harms him.

MAYO
IMHO, Mayo is still in the prime of his career. Here to, I would also move $3M into 2016 and 2017. The team might ask that some of mayo's compensation be moved to incentives, but even this is a bit difficult since most of his salary is guaranteed against injury. So, again, take the $3M in cap reduction and move on.

5thRing-Hunt · Feb 6, 2015

I heard Wilfork's interview on the radio and he said he feels great and is already looking forward to seeing if they can repeat. I think the big fella has another run in him. Gotta keep the heart of that defense on the team for Super Bowl 50. I'm not sure what they need to do with his money. Hopefully all the main players will do what needs to be done to keep Revis and Browner. And hopefully Revis wants to defend his title

Bruins29 · Feb 6, 2015

If they get Mayo back and he is his old self the pats will have the best LB corps in the league.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 6, 2015

Wilfork isn't worth $8M or even $5M. His compensation needs to be severely reduced.

Mayo is going to be 29 this month and has played 12 games in 2 years. Again, his compensation has to be severely reduced or cut entirely.

Remember, if Miguel is right, we are almost $4M over the cap this coming year and that's without signing Ghost, McCourty, Ayers, Vereen, maybe Connolly, maybe Ridley, draft picks, and any new players we might want to sign in free agency.

Also in 2016, we have huge increases in both Jones and Hightower's compensation due to their option year (assuming we pick them up which is highly likely) so transferring any cap charges to 2016 will hurt us as well.

If you want to keep Wilfork and Mayo at their current compensation, then who do you cut or not resign?

mgteich · Feb 6, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
Wilfork isn't worth $8M or even $5M. His compensation needs to be severely reduced.

Mayo is going to be 29 this month and has played 12 games in 2 years. Again, his compensation has to be severely reduced or cut entirely.

Remember, if Miguel is right, we are almost $4M over the cap this coming year and that's without signing Ghost, McCourty, Ayers, Vereen, maybe Connolly, maybe Ridley, draft picks, and any new players we might want to sign in free agency.

Also in 2016, we have huge increases in both Jones and Hightower's compensation due to their option year (assuming we pick them up which is highly likely) so transferring any cap charges to 2016 will hurt us as well.

If you want to keep Wilfork and Mayo at their current compensation, then who do you cut or not resign?

You seem to have little understanding of the cap. You make that clear when you state "if Miguel is right".
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Once Revis is either extended or cut, we would save anywhere from $9M to $20M; let's presume ONLY $9M.

There are additional restructures available (without changing compensation) that could make another $17.5M available (Wilfork, Mayo, Arrington, Browner, Brady, Gronk, Vollmer)

Cutting Amendola could "save" another $2.1M.

Extending Solder could save another $2M.

The total potential cap savings that is available without cutting anyone but Amendola is $30.6M (or more if the Revis savings is more.
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BOTTOM LINE
Obviously, all the restructures won't happen. And yes, we could cut more than Amendola. The potential total is $9M + $17.5M + $2.1 +$2M = $30.6M less the $4M we are over for a total of $26.4M UNDER the cap. Let's say that $6.4M is needed for rookies, in-season and other costs (the number used in last year's estimates). That gives a potential total of $20M to work with.

As you say, much MORE than $20M could be made available. We could cut any of the following and "save" even more: Wilfork, Mayo, Arrington, Browner, or even Solder. Or we could get one of them to take a pay cut. No additional cut is "needed". The open question is the value of these players.

So, we can have $20M available to sign the following or their replacements: McCourty, Ayers, Casillas, Branch, Vereen, Connolly, Ridley, Gostkowski and White.
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patsfan06 · Feb 7, 2015

Wilfork, I can live with.

Mayo quite simply must take a paycut or he should be cut. That's the cold truth. Now I'd love to have him back but you simply can't overlook the health issues.

Patriots1364life · Feb 7, 2015

I hope we look at a nose tackle in the draft.

I agree about mayo. I like him but he has been injury prone. I wonder how much those injuries have slowed him down.

Ochmed Jones · Feb 7, 2015

There is no way bb does not reduce the cap hits on the guys.

supafly · Feb 7, 2015

4thRing-Hunt said:
Hopefully all the main players will do what needs to be done to keep Revis and Browner. And hopefully Revis wants to defend his title

Revis and McCourty--you mean.

Brandon Browner is under contract through free agency 2017.

ATippett56 · Feb 7, 2015

http://www.patscap.com/mayo.html#mayo

The New England Patriots need to seriously look into reducing Mayo's base salary from $6,250,000 to at least $3,250,000 if not to $2,250,000.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 7, 2015

mgteich said:
You seem to have little understanding of the cap. You make that clear when you state "if Miguel is right".
=============
Once Revis is either extended or cut, we would save anywhere from $9M to $20M; let's presume ONLY $9M.

There are additional restructures available (without changing compensation) that could make another $17.5M available (Wilfork, Mayo, Arrington, Browner, Brady, Gronk, Vollmer)

Cutting Amendola could "save" another $2.1M.

Extending Solder could save another $2M.

The total potential cap savings that is available without cutting anyone but Amendola is $30.6M (or more if the Revis savings is more.
=================================
BOTTOM LINE
Obviously, all the restructures won't happen. And yes, we could cut more than Amendola. The potential total is $9M + $17.5M + $2.1 +$2M = $30.6M less the $4M we are over for a total of $26.4M UNDER the cap. Let's say that $6.4M is needed for rookies, in-season and other costs (the number used in last year's estimates). That gives a potential total of $20M to work with.

As you say, much MORE than $20M could be made available. We could cut any of the following and "save" even more: Wilfork, Mayo, Arrington, Browner, or even Solder. Or we could get one of them to take a pay cut. No additional cut is "needed". The open question is the value of these players.

So, we can have $20M available to sign the following or their replacements: McCourty, Ayers, Casillas, Branch, Vereen, Connolly, Ridley, Gostkowski and White.
=======

Actually, the fact that you use the word "save" when it comes to the cap and restructuring, shows that you have a poor understanding of the cap. When you restructure someone...unless they are taking less money.... you are merely transferring the cap cost to another year making it more difficult in that future cap year.

$9M to $20M cap savings for Revis.....lol. Under what scenario does Revis sign for an $11M (or less) cap hit in 2015 (not including the signing bonus money)?

I guess you haven't been watching Amendola the last weeks. You think Wilfork is worth $8.5M but Amendola isn't worth $2.1M in additional cap hit? Um....no.

So your plan it seems is to "restructure" all these costs into 2016? Have you looked at our cap cost in 2016? If you count Jones and Hightower's option years (about $8M a piece), we're already up to $113M for only 30 players. What about the other 23 players we'd have to sign?

BTW, Miguel clearly states...and I quote....."I will NOT pretend that this information will be 100% correct. The information on this site can ONLY be as accurate as the press reports that the information comes from."
So when I said "if he was right", I was taking him at his word.

Patriots1364life · Feb 7, 2015

Amendola needs to take a cut or let him test free agency. You think he will get 5 million? I am waiting on boyce to finally figure out the pats offense lol.

patfanken · Feb 7, 2015

Assuming Mayo fully recovers from that ACL, and historically, we have no reason to believe that he won't; I think he would have a much bigger impact on the team next season that Wilfolk. That being said, Mayo is a Patriots lifer, I don't think the Pats would have any trouble at all getting him to reduce his cap number by turning a large portion of that guaranteed money into incentives. Like MG said, this is less about the dollars and more about the cap.

Wilfolk far exceeded my expectation for him this past year. His recovery from that kind of injury at his age, size, and position, is past remarkable. However THAT being said, I personally don't think that at this point. his play is anywhere near worth an over $8MM cap number. This is another clear Mankins situation, when a player's cap number far exceeds what he is currently giving you on the field.

Vince is STILL a good player, maybe even a very good player. But, based on my observation, he is no longer the immovable rock, or disruptive force that he was, even as late as 2011 or 12. The way I see it, Vince is a $4-5MM/yr guy, taking $8-9MM in cap space.

At the right price, the Pats will be a better defense with him, than without him, but I really don't see him being much more than a decent run stuffer whose snaps are only going to continue to decrease over time.

The solution is to do something again with his contract, and I'm not certain that can even happen even if they want to. What needs to happen is for Vince's cap number to come down at least $2MM this year. I don't mind paying him again based on production, if I am wrong. He actually may be dong great things that I'm just not seeing

RI Patriots fan · Feb 7, 2015

Patriots1364life said:
Amendola needs to take a cut or let him test free agency. You think he will get 5 million? I am waiting on boyce to finally figure out the pats offense lol.

Amendola still has guaranteed money left on his contract which we will lose regardless if he stays or leaves in 2015.

The question is....is Amendola worth $2.1M in additional cap hit and IMO the answer is yes.

supafly · Feb 7, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
$9M to $20M cap savings for Revis.....lol. Under what scenario does Revis sign for an $11M (or less) cap hit in 2015 (not including the signing bonus money)?

Understanding that this wasn't directed at me, there are scenarios when Darelle Revis' cap number wouldn't account for 11 million dollars for his year one hit in 2015. It all depends on how the contract is structured.

For example, Aqib Talib's cap hit was 7.9 million last year, and will only be 7.0 million in 2015.

Patrick Peterson just signed a 5/70 million contract with 47 million guaranteed, and his yearly cap hits hover right around the 11-12-13 million dollar range all the way through 2021 when he finally hits free agency.

The same goes for Joe Haden, who recently signed a 5/68 contract.

I think that you have a fair question, but there are certainly scenarios where it could happen. Most likely, I think we can use an 11-12 million dollar cap hit as a decent starting point for his 2015 number should he be extended, so I think you're probably right in the ballpark.

supafly · Feb 7, 2015

patfanken said:
Assuming Mayo fully recovers from that ACL, and historically, we have no reason to believe that he won't; I think he would have a much bigger impact on the team next season that Wilfolk. That being said, Mayo is a Patriots lifer, I don't think the Pats would have any trouble at all getting him to reduce his cap number by turning a large portion of that guaranteed money into incentives. Like MG said, this is less about the dollars and more about the cap.

Wilfolk far exceeded my expectation for him this past year. His recovery from that kind of injury at his age, size, and position, is past remarkable. However THAT being said, I personally don't think that at this point. his play is anywhere near worth an over $8MM cap number. This is another clear Mankins situation, when a player's cap number far exceeds what he is currently giving you on the field.

Vince is STILL a good player, maybe even a very good player. But, based on my observation, he is no longer the immovable rock, or disruptive force that he was, even as late as 2011 or 12. The way I see it, Vince is a $4-5MM/yr guy, taking $8-9MM in cap space.

At the right price, the Pats will be a better defense with him, than without him, but I really don't see him being much more than a decent run stuffer whose snaps are only going to continue to decrease over time.

The solution is to do something again with his contract, and I'm not certain that can even happen even if they want to. What needs to happen is for Vince's cap number to come down at least $2MM this year. I don't mind paying him again based on production, if I am wrong. He actually may be dong great things that I'm just not seeing

Great points, Ken.

My feeling is that we'd be better off keeping Vince for 2015, even if it means overpaying a bit. We're in a very good position when you look at the overall cost of the defensive line as a whole---lots of cheap and efficient deals there in my opinion.

One more year + another higher round pick should put us in a better position to deal with his loss. I'm not quite sure we're there yet for the upcoming season.

Just looking at the defensive plan in the SB vs SEA last week, it seems like Belichick had a lot of confidence in Wilfork and the ability to stuff the run, even being technically outnumbered by keeping Ninkovich in to contain and set the edge (which he is damn effective at doing in my opinion, but that's a different discussion altogether).

I agree that he's seeing a bit more money than he should, but his loss may be too much to deal with in the upcoming year.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 7, 2015

patfanken said:
Assuming Mayo fully recovers from that ACL, and historically, we have no reason to believe that he won't; I think he would have a much bigger impact on the team next season that Wilfolk. That being said, Mayo is a Patriots lifer, I don't think the Pats would have any trouble at all getting him to reduce is contract and turn a large portion of that guaranteed money into incentives in order to reduce his 2015 cap number.

Mayo had a patella injury...not an ACL injury and patella injuries are considered more serious.

"New England Patriots linebacker Jerod Mayo underwent surgery to repair his torn patella tendon on Thursday morning, according to Tom E. Curran of CSNNE. A torn patella tendon is considered to be a more serious injury than an ACL tear."

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-.../id/4770247/jerod-mayo-undergoes-knee-surgery

Mayo has played 12 out of 37 games the Patriots have played over the last 2 years. You can't pay top dollar to a part time player.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 7, 2015

supafly said:
Understanding that this wasn't directed at me, there are scenarios when Darelle Revis' cap number wouldn't account for 11 million dollars for his year one hit in 2015. It all depends on how the contract is structured.

For example, Aqib Talib's cap hit was 7.9 million last year, and will only be 7.0 million in 2015.

Patrick Peterson just signed a 5/70 million contract with 47 million guaranteed, and his yearly cap hits hover right around the 11-12-13 million dollar range all the way through 2021 when he finally hits free agency.

The same goes for Joe Haden, who recently signed a 5/68 contract.

I think that you have a fair question, but there are certainly scenarios where it could happen. Most likely, I think we can use an 11-12 million dollar cap hit as a decent starting point for his 2015 number should he be extended, so I think you're probably right in the ballpark.

Well sure, we could structure it so there's a bigger hit in 2016. As I said....we'll have 30 guys signed for a $113M cap hit in 2016. Then u add in Revis, McCourty, Ghost, Vereen......north of $140M and 19 more players still to add???

supafly · Feb 7, 2015

RI Patriots fan said:
Well sure, we could structure it so there's a bigger hit in 2016. As I said....we'll have 30 guys signed for a $113M cap hit in 2016. Then u add in Revis, McCourty, Ghost, Vereen......north of $140M and 19 more players still to add???

I don't think a million or two is going to solve that kind of problem right now, though. Just my opinion.

The truth of the matter is that some of these free agents for both 2015 and 2016 are going to have to be replaced by cheaper draft picks, as always. That's just the way it works, unfortunately.

As far as Revis goes, I think it's safe to assume a cap hit in the 11-14m range throughout the (hopeful) life of the extension.

RI Patriots fan · Feb 7, 2015

supafly said:
I don't think a million or two is going to solve that kind of problem right now, though. Just my opinion.

The truth of the matter is that some of these free agents for both 2015 and 2016 are going to have to be replaced by cheaper draft picks, as always. That's just the way it works, unfortunately.

As far as Revis goes, I think it's safe to assume a cap hit in the 11-14m range throughout the (hopeful) life of the extension.

Exactly.....we need to replace them or they have to play for cheap or we overpay them and crush future cap years.

BTW, I would love it if he agreed to an 11-14m cap range hit throughout the life of his extension. I just don't see it happening given his comp last year of $12M.

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