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idle thoughts - the "coaches defense league" edition


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patfanken

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This is a combination mini rant and discussion of why Pete's call at the end of the game wasn't nearly as bad as the mediots are making it out to be. Let me start with the rant.

There are a number of reasons I sometimes despair for my country. One of them is the growing tendency for the need to assign blame for EVERYTHING negative that happens. The old expression "**** happens" no longer applies. I guess I blame it on the lawyers. They make billions assigning blame, and thus making everyone think that nothing is ever their OWN responsibility. So then when you are ready to believe that nothing is every your fault, it’s easy to slide into my next complaint, which is hating that we no longer are ever FOR something, because we are spending all our time being AGAINST everything. See the two go hand and hand.

So what does that have to do with what transpired on Sunday? Well this. I think, and most will agree, that the Pats are not getting their fair share of the credit for winning the Superbowl, because the Seahawks are getting much too much blame for "losing it". Not only is it unfair to Pete Carroll, it’s also grossly unfair to the Patriots and what THEY accomplished in the game.

Once again, the public, led by the nose by the "experts" and media pukes, took the easy route and immediately assigned blame to why one team lost the game, rather than assigning credit for why one team won it. Don't forget that if Malcolm Butler hadn't been there to make that play and the Seahawks had somehow won that game, don't think for a second that the parasitic media hordes weren't ready to turn their invective on BB for not calling the TO or immediately allowing the Seahawks to score so the Pats would have 40-45 seconds to try and tie the score.

Well, my friends, upon a day or two of reflection and finding out more about the background of the situation, it turns out that BOTH the HC's made the right decisions. Now when I make that statement I want it made clear that what they did was not the ONLY way to do it. Other options were clearly both available and reasonable. But given what I know now, I believe that the decisions that both coaches reached were probably the best ones for their respective teams. Let me make the case for both.


PETE CARROLL -

The ball is on the one yard line - You have one time out, and 3 downs to get that yard. You also have are likely to have about 17-20 second left after the next play if you don't score. It is very unlikely you are going to be able to run the ball 3 times in that time even with the TO.

Here's your situation. The clock is running down and you don't want to use that last TO. Your star RB happens to be 1-5 this season in running the ball in from the one yard line. In this very game with the a 2nd and short, your star RB failed to get a first down in 2 tries, including one where he lost 2 yds. Just the last game you saw GB fail to run it in from the one 2 times with an excellent power RB. You have been a coach for 40 years and you know how hard it is to get that last yard. BTW- I don’t know what the Pats stats were from the one this year, but anecdotally my recollection was they were pretty tough and weren’t easily run in on.

So if you choose to run, you might only get 2 shots at it and even if you can do a third it would be a rush job. If you throw in a pass, you are certain to have 3 shots at it at a reasonable pace. And if you have half a brain you know that the best shot you have at a successful pass play will be on 2nd down.

The point of this is to point out that while Carroll COULD have chosen another series of plays to attack that last yard, his plan, which was to a. throw the pass, b. run Lynch, and c. run Wilson on a run pass option; was just as reasonable as any….if not more

Now there have been many who have opined that maybe the pass wasn’t such a bad idea, but the kind of pass than was run into the middle WAS the real mistake. That originally made some sense to me until I saw some stills of the play. Once you look at those stills it became clear to me that Wilson wasn’t throwing into a cluttered area. In fact, when he was throwing the ball, the only 2 people even close to the ball were Lockette and Butler. This was a much easier throw for Wilson than a fade, and the area was no more “cluttered” than any other he might throw it to.

Finally, I would point out that on EVERY play you run a risk of disaster. There might have been a bad snap, a muffed hand off, penalty, etc. While, if you pass there is a possibility of a pick, how high is it really? I don’t know what the percentage is of passes attempted vs passes picked, but I’m willing to bet it’s under 5%. What kind of coach are you that would fear to run a play that had, say a 4% chance of blowing up on you. Certainly not the kind of coach that would run a play with 6 seconds left in the half knowing the average play runs just over 6 seconds.

Carroll could have easily lived with a broken up pass play. And while a pick was a possibility, you don’t become an NFL HC coach not doing things that have a 3 or 4% chance of going bad.

In the end this isn’t about Pete Carroll or even Russell Wilson making a mistake, this is about Malcom Butler using what he learned from his coaches and studies and his football instincts not just to break up a well-conceived pass play, but to make that 4% play of picking it off. It’s a play no different from the Manningham catch in the 2011, or the Kearce catch just a few seconds before. One of those very rare incredible individual efforts

These are NOT plays that you assign blame to. These are the 4% type plays to assign PRAISE to and glorify. Why diminish what Butler accomplished so you can run and assign blame to another. It’s just sad that this has become the normal way operate now .


BILL BELLICHICK

There are still those who want to question Bellichick about not calling TO after Lynch’s run from the 5 and allowing the Seahawks to score. Here’s why. From what I can gather, the most time the Pats could have possibly gotten would have been around 40 seconds. And that assumes the Seahawks cooperate and score in the fastest possible manner.

Here’s what I believe BB is thinking. He knows that the Pats are going to have to move the ball at least 50 yards in that time (-20 to the +30) going directly into the area of strength of a pass defense that he’s been trying to avoid the entire game. What he basically determined in those few seconds, was that he had a better opportunity to stop the Seahawks from getting into the endzone, than he did from moving the ball those 50+ yds into the teeth of a great pass defense in that short a time.

Like Carroll, BB understands that it is VERY hard to get that last yard on the GL and so he forces Carroll to speed up his thinking that he is not going to anything that will help him slow the pace down.


SUMMARY - You can certainly question Carroll’s call. That’s what we do as fans and mediots. But was it the worst call in NFL history? Far from it. As for BB, there are never a lot of “good options” when your team is on its own 1 yd line nursing a 4 point lead (regardless of how absurd the play was that put them there), but the scenario he chose to follow was as good as any, and made eminent sense to me…..at least


OK, am I nuts or on the money. Let me know what you think.
 
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I think calling for a pass is defensible. Once they let the clock run down, they really had no choice. if they ran it and were stopped and then used their TO, they'd HAVE to run it on the next play and the Pats would know that. I think the issue is which pass they called. That was about the most high risk pass they could have called there. It /is/a play Seattle likes though.

I saw somewhere that, over the course of the season, teams passing from the 1 had a 61+ percent success rate with NO turnovers, and a 57 percent success rate with 2 turnovers running. FWIW.
 
I'm pretty sure I agree with you, so I gave you the big green checkmark. But I stopped reading around page 17 so hopefully the end wasn't about drinking virgin blood or something.
 
Ken,

This is almost the only post of yours ever I have not liked. My reason is that it doesn't seem to add anything new to the large amount of discussion on these subjects.
 
duplicate - please delete


Spot On , Ken.

I felt I was alone in thinking exactly that it was the best option on the part of both Coaches. BB preferred to win or lose in a goalline stand, rather than try to move 50 yards, kick a successful Tying FG; and then play in Overtime.

He decided not to give the Seahawks a free timeout. So would I. Maybe it would have eliminated a complete play with the clock running down. It put pressure on them, no doubt.

I don't understand critics who think using only 2 plays attempting to score, is better then 3 full oppportunities, should you need them. But MEDIOTS are know-nothing stupid.

I'm firmly convinced BB would have adopted EXACTLY the same strategy.
 
I was 100% freaking out about BB not calling a timeout. Then they won the SB!

As for the pass vs run being a bad call, look at it this way, the vast majority of possible results for that call are either incomplete or td. It's only a really bad call if you know the outcome already.
 
Ken, what you are raging against, is, in essence, the dumbing down of the country. I'm Canadian and its the same thing here. People are getting dumber by the day and the media is just pandering to "their" market.
I watched ABC World News last night (Buffalo affiliate) for the first time in about 4 years. There was a story about Johnny Manziel in rehab and another story about one of the dancers in Katy Perry's half time show. On the National News!!! Unbelievable. I just laughed as I turned off the TV. This is what its come to.

As to Carroll, if that pass was completed for a TD, the narrative from the media ***wipes would be that Carroll is a genius for passing when everyone expected him to run it and he so great and thinks outside the box and blah blah blah.

As to the Past not getting their due because of the "The Call", you cannot let this bother you. It just doesn't matter anymore. The Pats are Super Bowl Champs and will be hosting the Kick Off Classic on September 10th and there's not damn damn thing anyone who doesn't like us, can do about it. I have a good friend whose a Sea Hawks fan from Seattle. He called me to say that the Hawks gave it away and the Pats got lucky. I said to him the following, "In big games, we own you". He lost his mind in frustration but there was nothing he could do or say. The Pats won! The Pats are Super Bowl Champs. Again.
And the rest is just noise.
September 10 is in our house. End of story!! Glad I could help.
 
it would have been a perfectly acceptable play if it wound up being incomplete. No one would have batted an eye if they followed the sequence you highlighted above. People would have raved about the decision to leave BB with no time left on the clock and you are right, the questions would have come back the other way regarding the use/non-use of patriots timeouts.

The difference is that Butler made an outstanding play to make the int. The only passing down to be intercepted from the one this year. Not enough is being made about the incredible break on the ball that butler made, or the equally impressive job that browner did to not get in his way.
 
Ken, what you are raging against, is, in essence, the dumbing down of the country. I'm Canadian and its the same thing here. People are getting dumber by the day and the media is just pandering to "their" market.
I watched ABC World News last night (Buffalo affiliate) for the first time in about 4 years. There was a story about Johnny Manziel in rehab and another story about one of the dancers in Katy Perry's half time show. On the National News!!! Unbelievable. I just laughed as I turned off the TV. This is what its come to.

As to Carroll, if that pass was completed for a TD, the narrative from the media ***wipes would be that Carroll is a genius for passing when everyone expected him to run it and he so great and thinks outside the box and blah blah blah.

As to the Past not getting their due because of the "The Call", you cannot let this bother you. It just doesn't matter anymore. The Pats are Super Bowl Champs and will be hosting the Kick Off Classic on September 10th and there's not damn damn thing anyone who doesn't like us, can do about it. I have a good friend whose a Sea Hawks fan from Seattle. He called me to say that the Hawks gave it away and the Pats got lucky. I said to him the following, "In big games, we own you". He lost his mind in frustration but there was nothing he could do or say. The Pats won! The Pats are Super Bowl Champs. Again.
And the rest is just noise.
September 10 is in our house. End of story!! Glad I could help.
Trust me when I say this phenomena isn't isolated to North America.
 
Ken,

This is almost the only post of yours ever I have not liked. My reason is that it doesn't seem to add anything new to the large amount of discussion on these subjects.
Sorry I disappointed, Fencer. I'll try to do better next time.

Just so you know. The impedance to do this thread came from seeing those stills which put to rest the complaints so many made of throwing the ball "into traffic". There was no traffic. Then it occurred to me that if the play had just been broken up, as most plays are, it wouldn't have been a footnote, regardless of how the next 2 plays went. While the threat of picks are always there, its a rarity when they actually happen, and that's a point that is often missed

I know you agree that that the focus should be on Butler's good play and not the call, I was just trying to explain why it wasn't such a egregious call
 
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One observation: Your idle thoughts have been in overdrive lately. :D

Next: One small issue with your post. there's only 1 L in Belichick :p. I would normally let it go, but this our guy and you know how to spell his name.

and maybe the movie "Idiocracy" isn't as far-fetched an idea as it appears (outside of the whole time travel thing)
 
The problem is that Lynch was tackled at the 1 with a minute left in the game. They didn't get the next play off until 25 seconds left. That was not good clock management. With 1 time out left, they certainly had a chance to run the ball 3 more times. They got cute, not wanting to give the Pats any time...and it came back to bite them.
 
If I'm Carroll, I run on 2nd down, that way you see how much time is used if you don't score a TD. Then you call a time out and can either throw it on third down, if you don't think there is enough time for two runs, or game plan for two consecutive runs if you do think there is enough time. Just my thoughts. Don't think the decision to throw it was that egregious, but I think a slant into traffic was a poorly designed play for that situation. Also, Wilson has to lob the ball out of the endzone if coverage is too tight.
 
Well said Ken, I've been arguing against people using similar ideas the last couple days... "HOW DO YOU NOT GIVE IT TO LYNCH???" I'm sorry you're a brain dead tool who doesn't understand football any deeper than Lynch + handoff at goal line = touchdown. How hard is it to consider down, distance, timeouts remaining, time remaining... "It's the worst call I've seen in football!!" This must be your first game then
 
While Barnwell hated the call, he did have some good info in his article:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/super-bowl-new-england-patriots-seattle-seahawks/

Before Sunday, NFL teams had thrown the ball 108 times on the opposing team’s 1-yard line this season. Those passes had produced 66 touchdowns (a success rate of 61.1 percent, down to 59.5 percent when you throw in three sacks) and zero interceptions. The 223 running plays had generated 129 touchdowns (a 57.8 percent success rate) and two turnovers on fumbles.

Stretch that out to five years and the numbers make runs slightly superior; they scored 54.1 percent of the time and resulted in turnovers 1.5 percent of the time, while passes got the ball into the end zone 50.1 percent of the time and resulted in turnovers 1.9 percent of the time. In a vacuum, the decision between running and passing on the 1-yard line is hardly indefensible, because both the risk and the reward are roughly similar.
The Globe put together some interesting stats. Not sure how accurate since it's the Globe, but the original source was Pro Football Reference which is better.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2...d-you-think/9Tt9A9avhWuaZGXBlTdTDI/story.html

Though Lynch sometimes seems it, he’s not unstoppable. Of his 281 carries during the 2014 season, 20 resulted in lost yardage while two more yielded fumbles, meaning that something bad happened for the Seahawks 7.8 percent of the time when he was asked to carry the ball.

Over the three years when he’s lined up behind Wilson, he’s had 20 fumbles and 77 non-fumbling negative-yardage plays — a tough-to-stomach outcome on 10.7 percent of all of his runs. Of course, he’d netted at least a yard on 22 of his 24 runs (91.7 percent) in the game on Sunday, but there was at least some possibility that he could be stopped.

More to the point, Lynch doesn’t have the bulldozing track record that one might anticipate from the 1-yard line. He was handed the ball at the 1 five times in 2014, getting into the end zone just once — a 20 percent success rate well short of the league average of 57.5 percent.

Over his three-year partnership with Wilson, Lynch has more often failed to reach the end zone (7 times) than he has reached it (5) when given the opportunity from the 1. Perhaps that track record sat in the back of Seahawks coaches’ minds as they considered their call.​
 
My personal take is that I believe the Football Gods were effing with the Seahawks for all their arrogance this past couple years. I don't mind the occasional trash-talking, and I'm more than happy to give props where do. But Seattle crossed a very bright line with their mouthiness and attitude that just doesn't sit well with a whole lotta folks.

So, to my mind, Kearce was allowed by the Football Gods to make that circus catch in order to mess a bit with the Patriots' fans, but more to raise the Seahawks' hopes up as high as possible before dashing them onto the rocks far, far, below.

Karma, she is a beyatch, and she winked at New England when she ripped Seattle's heart out. :)
 
I heard Ben Volin on the radio this morning, and in addition to the 1 out of 5 successful tries by Lynch.. he also said that this play had been tried 108 times this year without an interception, so it was good odds for the Hawks..

But we have the better coach..
 
Complains about how people need to assign blame.

Assigns blame to lawyers in the next sentence.


The scum that fills the otherwise honorable ranks of the legal profession deserve any opprobrium they get.. I detest the attorneys who advertise on TV that they will gladly take 1/3 of your life earnings for having their legal secretary file a form letter. That scum want $10 BILLION of the 30 BILLION DOLLARS set aside for compensation to sufferers of Asbestos lung disease for example. At least that 30 Billion came from the companies bankrupted for using Asbestos, and are somewhat culpable.

Worse still are the legal bums willing to sue "for you" for side effects of drugs. No drug is truly harmless. The drug makers and dispensers judged the benefits greater than the harm. Why the outsized reward for useless scum who live well by taking money from the inevitable harmed few, for the help afforded to the majority helped. No one is truly malicious here, IMHO, except this legal scum.
 
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